CD is better than vinyl, which is why vinyl sounds better than CD

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1. Nice simple argument, but although seemingly logical, it largely misses the point. The kind of music you say sounds better on vinyl is not the kind of music audiophiles listen to. You state that much jazz and classical music has not suffered the same compression as pop music. So what explains the audiophiles preference for vinyl? The two examples you site no audiophile, or most other serious listeners would consider worthy of vinyl. Most vinyl lovers, love it for the unique sound, nostalgia, ritual or because it's cool, or a combination there of.

   Posted 4th November 2014 at 12:38 AM by mordikai

2. Quote: Originally Posted by mordikai Nice simple argument, but although seemingly logical, it largely misses the point. The kind of music you say sounds better on vinyl is not the kind of music audiophiles listen to. You state that much jazz and classical music has not suffered the same compression as pop music. So what explains the audiophiles preference for vinyl? The two examples you site no audiophile, or most other serious listeners would consider worthy of vinyl. Most vinyl lovers, love it for the unique sound, nostalgia, ritual or because it's cool, or a combination there of. I don't discount that a large number of people listen to vinyl for reasons of novelty or culture. There are many reasons to listen to vinyl but saying it's a technically superior medium is not one of them. Basically the way I think of vinyl vs CD is the same way I think of expensive mechanical swiss watches vs quartz watches. If you want to keep accurate time the best way to do it is with a quartz watch. Mechanical watches are more about the appreciation for the engineering that goes into it. The crucial difference is that you will never find a watch manufacturer that claims that mechanical watches are more accurate than quartz, whereas the audiophile world seems to have quite a bit of people that argue that vinyl is in fact better then CD. My article was more to say that you could make a reasonable case for vinyl from a music quality standpoint. The other case is just basic availability. There are many records that are not on CD and the only way to play them is with a turntable. Or you have a large collection of old records and repurchasing them is not worth it.

   Posted 10th November 2014 at 10:52 AM by cspirou

3. Vinyl is better and sound better than CD: [If you go to a jazz club to hear Randy Crawford sing, then go home and play the CD it just doesn’t have the natural ebb and flow of the live show. In this respect, vinyl LPs do better. Sure, they have a multitude of other problems, but always seem to time more convincingly when played on a decent turntable. The reason for this, according to Chord Electronics designer Rob Watts, is that digital audio is fundamentally constrained by (what, if it were a television you’d call) its frame rate. Because it has a limited number of samples (‘frames’) per second, it can’t completely accurately resolve the ‘inter-aural’ timing of the music. Watts thinks this is a serious flaw, and the lower resolution the digital signal is (ie CDcompared to hi-res), the more acute the problem becomes. Rob says that – in simple terms – the brain samples sound in real time every 4 microseconds, whereas CD refreshes its ‘frames’every 22 microseconds. It’s CD’s inability to work as fast as the brain that causes its problems in the time domain, why it doesn’t sound natural.] https://chordelectronics.co.uk/files/...uly%202014.pdf And have more dinamic:

   Posted 28th November 2014 at 05:03 PM by raul_77

4. Sorry, raul_77, that explanation is completely wrong; technically, 44.1 rate digital has no problems whatsoever. Its the execution that's the problem, the components you're using to playback the digital source have a distortion problem, irrespective of what the spec's or any normal measurements may say. Distortion?? Yes, that's the "not sounding natural" quality in the CD sound, it's distortion, pure and simple ... I can say this, because I got conventional CD to sound 100% natural 30 years ago, by "fixing up" the problems the replay system had - you then appreciate that often CD sound playback has added, "unnatural" distortion artifacts - which can always be eliminated by doing the right things ... Frank

   Posted 29th November 2014 at 11:34 PM by fas42

5. 	That plot of impulses (which looks to me like pure Sony propaganda) showed up on HeadFi too, and I commented on it there.
   	Posted 30th November 2014 at 12:50 AM by abraxalito

6. Since I compose, mix and master music and have many years experience working with both digital and analog systems (designing analog synthesizers, maintaining nagra tape units, programming music software, designing speakers etc), I can share a few tested observations. 1.) 24bits is audibly better than 16 on busy mixes. 2.) 48Khz is audibly better than 44.1 on most mixes. 3.) For repro, 96khz or > is nice, but not as much of an improvement as the first two points. 4.) In mixing and post production the faster the sample rate the better our filters, Eq's and other processes that rely on recursive feedback sound. IOW, a minimum phase analog EQ will best a minimum phase digital EQ up to a certain sample rate... Systems with feedback seem to improve audibly up to 512-768Khz after which I can't hear much difference between digital and analog (outside that digital is more precise and less noisy). Yes I've setup special tests for this. In low channel count non-recursive use 48Khz has been fine both for storage and mixing although 96Khz has just a little more definition which can be useful on high-track count mixes. 5.) DSD recording and playback is more accurate as it's more data - that's all there is to it. It is closer to analog tape (without the damn noise floor). I started using DSD for masters in 2007. Was using tape from 2002-2007 6.) Vinyl has euphonic distortion introduced by a second (lateral?) motion of the needle... This movement produces additional harmonics, which most people seem to enjoy. The designer of ableton live (who is a very smart innovator in digital audio) went so far as to write a plugin to emulate this 'effect' after measuring it. I like vinyl, I even have pressings coming out this year, but I know it's not closer to the real thing, its a medium with a built in euphonic artifact that also happens to fairly band limited compared to digital systems. Imagine trying to lay hot 12khz signals at the center of the record, what a nightmare... The few left who run lathes are often adjusting stereo width (with elliptical filters that add group delay) to accomplish records that don't break into distortion. Anymore I only know of a few people in the world who are staying fully analog from recording to lathe, so consider 98%+ of your vinyl came from either the CD masters or sometimes from higher sample rate files, potentially mastered for vinyl specifically. Analog systems allow non-definite states to exists, there is something comforting about this in a computerized and labeled world. Vinyl sounds great and the ritual/hassle of it is relational... The music needs the listener to dust it off, to take care putting it in it's sleeve, etc. The essence of love is an abstract behavior that has no relationship to base functionality. I experience a sort of love when I handle vinyl.

   Posted 21st October 2015 at 12:36 PM by anthonybisset

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