They're about the same physical size. They both are dual triodes. Every other parameter of the tubes is sharply different.
Yes and no, depeding on nfb and fq, ECC88(E88CC, longer life span then ECC88). E88CC is a high frequency tube, and ECC83 is a AF(audiofq..) tube. So the answer is no, ECC83 isn't equal to E88CC... but try.. it might sound okay anyway, both tubes has 6.3V heater voltage and around 250 - 300V plate voltage.. but if it's fitted in th RF-stage in an old tube Radio, it want work, once again, ECC88 is an RF-tube, but you want to use ECC88 instead of ECC83, and it's not a straight swap, but it ought to work... again, try.. just make sure your not damge the tube or the next stage... I think I've actually used a ECC88 instead of ECC83 in a line amp for guitars look up the gm and the steepness on the tubes and compare, µ/S too...
Best of luck to you!
Best of luck to you!
Thanks for your input - but I am really none the wiser ! Does anybody have a definitive answer ????
Yes, the definitive answer is they are NOT at all the same.
Other than the ECC83 having a 12V heater and the ECC88 having a 6V heater, the ECC83 having a centertapped heater, the ECC88 not, and a 2:1 difference in heater current...
Other than the ECC83 having a 12V heater and the ECC88 having a 6V heater, the ECC83 having a centertapped heater, the ECC88 not, and a 2:1 difference in heater current...
OK, I'm no expert, but I'll try to help...
The short answer is no, they are not interchangeable.
ECC88 = 6DJ8
ECC83 = 12AX7
ECC88 is a frame grid, high frequency twin triode. It has a low(ish) internal resistance (approx. 5000+ ohms) and is usually used with higher standing current (approx. 3 to 15mA) and relatively low anode voltage (65 to 125V). ECC88 mu (amplification factor) is rated at 33. ECC88 has a 6.3V heater (only) which draws 300mA (360mA for some 6922 or E88CC types).
ECC83 is an older design audio (low) frequency twin triode. It has a rather high internal resistance (approx. 70,000+ ohms) and is usually used with a very low standing current draw (approx. 1mA) and relatively high anode voltage (150 to 200V). ECC83 mu is rated at 100 (very high). ECC83 heater may be wired for 6.3V at 300mA or 12.6V at 150mA.
If your ECC83 is wired for 12.6V heater and you drop in an ECC88, you'll be putting 12.6V on your ECC88's 6.3V-rated heaters. That probably would not be good.
So while the two tubes have a similar base and pin-out arrangement, they are not substitutes for each other. You would need to re-design the circuit if you wanted to use ECC88 in place of ECC83.
Is this in a guitar amp? If that's the case, you could try 12AT7 (ECC81) or 12AU7 (ECC82). Usually no harm in that. If it's a hi-fi amp of some kind, then I wouldn't try it.
The short answer is no, they are not interchangeable.
ECC88 = 6DJ8
ECC83 = 12AX7
ECC88 is a frame grid, high frequency twin triode. It has a low(ish) internal resistance (approx. 5000+ ohms) and is usually used with higher standing current (approx. 3 to 15mA) and relatively low anode voltage (65 to 125V). ECC88 mu (amplification factor) is rated at 33. ECC88 has a 6.3V heater (only) which draws 300mA (360mA for some 6922 or E88CC types).
ECC83 is an older design audio (low) frequency twin triode. It has a rather high internal resistance (approx. 70,000+ ohms) and is usually used with a very low standing current draw (approx. 1mA) and relatively high anode voltage (150 to 200V). ECC83 mu is rated at 100 (very high). ECC83 heater may be wired for 6.3V at 300mA or 12.6V at 150mA.
If your ECC83 is wired for 12.6V heater and you drop in an ECC88, you'll be putting 12.6V on your ECC88's 6.3V-rated heaters. That probably would not be good.
So while the two tubes have a similar base and pin-out arrangement, they are not substitutes for each other. You would need to re-design the circuit if you wanted to use ECC88 in place of ECC83.
Is this in a guitar amp? If that's the case, you could try 12AT7 (ECC81) or 12AU7 (ECC82). Usually no harm in that. If it's a hi-fi amp of some kind, then I wouldn't try it.
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There is no definitive answer.
From engineering point of view, the 2 tubes aren't swappable, ECC83 has a miu (amplification factor) of 100 while E88CC has a miu of 33, ECC83 has anode current of 1.2mA while E88CC has anode current of 15mA, ECC83 has transconductance of 1.6mA/V while E88CC has transconductance of 12.5mA/V. For 6.3V heater supply, with ECC83 it has to go 1 wire to pin 9 and 1 wire to pins 4 and 5 tied together, while with E88CC it has to go 1 wire to pin 4 and 1 wire to pin 5, while pin 9, which is shield, should connect to the ground.
However, should you take care of the heaters connections, you can try and swap the tubes. It may work and sound okay and may not work well.
...so are u any wiser now?
Man how many ways can we talk around each other. So I will try as well, then you'll have half a dozen inputs to ponder😉
Real answer: NO! But here at DIY we love to tinker, so...
The heater is your first problem. If the heater supply in your circuit is wired for 6.3volts, you can rewire the socket and try the E88CC. Most likely it is 12,6volts and even tho in practice you can still use that,(drop the voltage however which way you prefer), the increased heater current may not be good.
Completely different electrical behaviour is your second problem. The E88CC will run a little hotter given same standard value circuit made for a 12AX7. This will probably not be a problem since the increased voltage drop over the resistors will provide a lower anode voltage for the E88CC which is fine. Normally a 12AX7 has an anode resistor of about 100k ohms, this will be almost like a CCS load for an E88CC. Likewise, the cathode resistor will likely be a bit on the high side. So you pretty much get it to work, but not in a circuit made for the tube, and it will not be optimum.
If it is for guitar it may be very good since you actually want a little wacco conditions, but for any other use, it's better to leave well enough alone and build a seperate cicruit for those E88CCs.
Hey...who wants to leave well anough alone? Wrong forum for that🙂
Man how many ways can we talk around each other. So I will try as well, then you'll have half a dozen inputs to ponder😉
Real answer: NO! But here at DIY we love to tinker, so...
The heater is your first problem. If the heater supply in your circuit is wired for 6.3volts, you can rewire the socket and try the E88CC. Most likely it is 12,6volts and even tho in practice you can still use that,(drop the voltage however which way you prefer), the increased heater current may not be good.
Completely different electrical behaviour is your second problem. The E88CC will run a little hotter given same standard value circuit made for a 12AX7. This will probably not be a problem since the increased voltage drop over the resistors will provide a lower anode voltage for the E88CC which is fine. Normally a 12AX7 has an anode resistor of about 100k ohms, this will be almost like a CCS load for an E88CC. Likewise, the cathode resistor will likely be a bit on the high side. So you pretty much get it to work, but not in a circuit made for the tube, and it will not be optimum.
If it is for guitar it may be very good since you actually want a little wacco conditions, but for any other use, it's better to leave well enough alone and build a seperate cicruit for those E88CCs.
Hey...who wants to leave well anough alone? Wrong forum for that🙂
Why would you want to swap ECC83 for ECC88? Is this some form of fashion statement 'engineering'? Starting from scratch, you may be able to design a circuit to do a particular job with either of them - although some situations would work better with one of them, and some jobs can only be done by one of them. You would not use ECC83 for an RF amp, and you can't get a gain of 60 from an ECC88. In addition, the ECC88 is not designed for low-level audio so it might suffer from 1/f noise or microphonics.
If you just want to drop the gain then 12AY7 or 5751 might be a better swap. At least they have the same pinout. ECC81 can sometimes work in an ECC83 circuit but it has higher distortion at such low currents.
If you just want to drop the gain then 12AY7 or 5751 might be a better swap. At least they have the same pinout. ECC81 can sometimes work in an ECC83 circuit but it has higher distortion at such low currents.
What is this? A new hobby? Swapping tubes just becouse they look quite similar?
Tubes are quite differents, they are not lamps, with just a filament
Tubes are quite differents, they are not lamps, with just a filament
I have a definitive answer.
Read the data sheets and decide for yourself.
Here is a resource to find those data sheets.
Tube Data Sheet Locator
HTH
Doug
Read the data sheets and decide for yourself.
Here is a resource to find those data sheets.
Tube Data Sheet Locator
HTH
Doug
Because he can.
If u haven't noticed this is DIY, and I bet 80% of us have no formal EE education. I have an EE, believe it or not 🙄, but whats the fun in designing by the book? Might as well buy a kit. No thanks. It's not fashion engineering, but having a good time engineering.
Stop being so old school, conservative, traditionalist, republican, neo-religious negative. It's only gadgets.
I have actually done something crazy like this...Removed and replaced a 12AX7 with a 6922!!!! WOW!!! Big f...... deal!
I use 6922s in my guitar amps....oh sheit...that's not what they were made for....uh-oh...
Guess I'm a bad engineer
😀
I use 6922s in my guitar amps....oh sheit...that's not what they were made for....uh-oh...
Guess I'm a bad engineer
😀
