Do these guys just retip or do they replace suspensions/dampers as well? Some of the retippers saw off the end of the cantilever and glue on another cantilever section with a diamond tip on it- not exactly optimal.
You could contact Soundsmith. They not only build their own carts but I believe that they also retip. There is also Jico in Japan.
The idea of just gluing a diamond to the end is pathetic, however if they actually press it thru the end and then secure it with epoxy to seal a boron tube for example, I could live with it.
Cutting it off close to the coils might be better overall, but don,t expect it to sound like an original Koetsu.
You are at the mercy of how it's done also. Seen a lot of re tips for sale on Aodiogon, wonder why?
You have modified a highly resonant structure and maybe created a dead zone with any break in that beam.
When your Bmw breaks you don,t send it to Toyota, you send it to its maker, and in this case Koetsu will maybe restore the lovely midrange for a signifcant price I,m sure.
Regards
David
Cutting it off close to the coils might be better overall, but don,t expect it to sound like an original Koetsu.
You are at the mercy of how it's done also. Seen a lot of re tips for sale on Aodiogon, wonder why?
You have modified a highly resonant structure and maybe created a dead zone with any break in that beam.
When your Bmw breaks you don,t send it to Toyota, you send it to its maker, and in this case Koetsu will maybe restore the lovely midrange for a signifcant price I,m sure.
Regards
David
Not all diamonds are shanked onto the cantilever, some are just glued.
There's no doubt that the best solution is the rebuild of all the moving parts and coils by the original maker, but this can prohibitively expensive. Several grand for a rebuild on an $6k Koetsu, or a retip for a few hundred?
I've owned rebuilt and retipped carts. A friend has a 20 year old Linn troika that has ben retipped a handful of times and most recently received new coils, sapphire cantilever, suspension and stylus. You pays your money are takes your choice.
I would assume a good retip of a classic Sugano era Koetsu could actually be closer to the original than a Koetsu JNR rebuild......
There's no doubt that the best solution is the rebuild of all the moving parts and coils by the original maker, but this can prohibitively expensive. Several grand for a rebuild on an $6k Koetsu, or a retip for a few hundred?
I've owned rebuilt and retipped carts. A friend has a 20 year old Linn troika that has ben retipped a handful of times and most recently received new coils, sapphire cantilever, suspension and stylus. You pays your money are takes your choice.
I would assume a good retip of a classic Sugano era Koetsu could actually be closer to the original than a Koetsu JNR rebuild......
?
Nope, you take it to your local independent garage who you trust and will quote a good price. They then get the parts in they need, perhaps as made by an alternative manufacturer if they have experience of the quality.
If you send your car off to a BMW dealer to sort out the repair, you'll get an absolutely massive bill and the work not necessarily any better than the independent. BUT you will have a nice BMW reciept and mark in the service book to show whomever you might sell it to next (but you won't get much more money for it for having done so...).
For an old classic cart where they've changed the specs and the manufacturing process over the years, what you'll get is a complete different Koetsu and a very large bill. But of course you will have a guaranteed 100% Koetsu.
I think Koetsu just strip out the old and replace with new so you might have the same body but the innards will be complete new (hence why you pay so much). If you get it re-tipped, the tip will be different, the suspension might be similar but not exactly the same but you'll at least keep the coils and magnets etc and it will be lots cheaper.
Thank you all for your responses. This cart has been in use in my home for 34 years. It had the original diamond tip that Sugano glued on it with epoxy. It had the ability to reproduce a human voice like nothing I have ever heard up until the glue let go on Saturday. I really don't want anything other than a diamond glued to the end of the flattened end of the boron tube. I know that the chances of a proper repair are slim, but I wanted stories of actual satisfied repairs.
I found that it is virtually impossible to get good information, good contact, or good responses from the well known, and not so well known re-tip/re-build cartridge places.
More than a few are so busy that they simply will not bother to take the time to respond. So, you are stuck with "throwing it over the wall" and hoping that you get something good back - or so it seems.
Might work out differently if you hopped a plane and walked in on them??
There are a few that I would be very cautious about using, although they do work, and some people will think it good. Indeed, it may be good, or in other cases it may not be good. I'm being deliberately vague, but you can perhaps logically discern the situation.
It took me the better part of a decade to find someone, anyone, who could put the diamond (I had it) back on the tip of my Sugano period Koetsu Black. The fellow was well retired for the most part, and did not need the work in the least. He did it merely as a favor.
The discussion via email that it led to was worth the entire wait and all that was involved! I can say only a few things as a result. One is that while I am rather skilled in many areas, I can not begin to understand how the precision work on these cartridges is done! It's so much akin to watchmaking, and I can't really wrap my mind around things like how they cut gears and make screws so small that you need eye loupes to even see them!!
I had to use a good quality stereo microscope to even determine that the stylus was still hanging by a thread off then end of the cantilever! It's smaller than a speck, you could lose it by sneezing funny. How can anyone GRAB it and put it where it needs to be, at the proper angle and rotated in the proper position!! How can you merely pick it up?? So, you can start to appreciate what is involved... this stuff is small, and until you actually try to DO something with it, it looks pretty basic.
Btw, I find the older Koetsu carts, in general, to be in a different league than the more recent ones. The sound to the newer ones, to me, seems more like other phono carts. The older, magic, and a special quality in the mids... dunno why.
More than a few are so busy that they simply will not bother to take the time to respond. So, you are stuck with "throwing it over the wall" and hoping that you get something good back - or so it seems.
Might work out differently if you hopped a plane and walked in on them??
There are a few that I would be very cautious about using, although they do work, and some people will think it good. Indeed, it may be good, or in other cases it may not be good. I'm being deliberately vague, but you can perhaps logically discern the situation.
It took me the better part of a decade to find someone, anyone, who could put the diamond (I had it) back on the tip of my Sugano period Koetsu Black. The fellow was well retired for the most part, and did not need the work in the least. He did it merely as a favor.
The discussion via email that it led to was worth the entire wait and all that was involved! I can say only a few things as a result. One is that while I am rather skilled in many areas, I can not begin to understand how the precision work on these cartridges is done! It's so much akin to watchmaking, and I can't really wrap my mind around things like how they cut gears and make screws so small that you need eye loupes to even see them!!
I had to use a good quality stereo microscope to even determine that the stylus was still hanging by a thread off then end of the cantilever! It's smaller than a speck, you could lose it by sneezing funny. How can anyone GRAB it and put it where it needs to be, at the proper angle and rotated in the proper position!! How can you merely pick it up?? So, you can start to appreciate what is involved... this stuff is small, and until you actually try to DO something with it, it looks pretty basic.
Btw, I find the older Koetsu carts, in general, to be in a different league than the more recent ones. The sound to the newer ones, to me, seems more like other phono carts. The older, magic, and a special quality in the mids... dunno why.
Attachments
caveat emptor. To expand on what bear said.
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=18254.0 Reply #7, Reply #10.
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=803.0 page 34. Reply #499.
Reply #500.
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=18254.0 Reply #7, Reply #10.
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=803.0 page 34. Reply #499.
Reply #500.
I can second going to SoundSmith.....
They have an excellent reputation and do very good work. As others have mentioned, not only do they build their own cartridges, they also specialize in rebuilds.
This is how it works - You go to their web site and select the level of retip that you want, 1, 2 or 3 and then send them your cartridge.
The best part is that they will do a full inspection of the suspension, cantilever, coils etc. before they do any work. If extra work is needed, they will let you know. If it can't be repaired they will let you know.
You can find them here - Soundsmith: phono cartridge retipping and rebuilding
I'm currently running with a level 3 retipped Te Kaitora. It's like a brand new cartridge for a cost of $350.00.
They have an excellent reputation and do very good work. As others have mentioned, not only do they build their own cartridges, they also specialize in rebuilds.
This is how it works - You go to their web site and select the level of retip that you want, 1, 2 or 3 and then send them your cartridge.
The best part is that they will do a full inspection of the suspension, cantilever, coils etc. before they do any work. If extra work is needed, they will let you know. If it can't be repaired they will let you know.
You can find them here - Soundsmith: phono cartridge retipping and rebuilding
I'm currently running with a level 3 retipped Te Kaitora. It's like a brand new cartridge for a cost of $350.00.
caveat emptor, caveat emptor.
It's difficult to know by looking at a tip shoved onto a broken cantilever IF the job is actually right or not. You'd need two tools to make a solid determination. First a way to measure tip resonance - which would show up usually in a freq response measurement. And an eye loupe (or similar) of 5x or better, plus a lot of light and/or a good stereo microscope. The last part will show you the amount of glue used, the positioning, fit and alignment of the stylus and the replacement cantilever section.
Some shops merely do a cut to the old metal cantilever, then shove a new section (often ruby or the like) of cantilever into the old, surrounded by a bonding material. Often the stylus for the ruby and other "gem" cantilevers is made up of a good stylus glued to the gem cantilever. Many carts with gem cantilevers are made this way from the "factory". But when you make one this way you are fighting the "mass war" since mass causes some issues in the response, or can. I've seen a bunch of expensive cartridges with a massive rise above 10kHz, likely do to this sort of thing...
_-_-
It's difficult to know by looking at a tip shoved onto a broken cantilever IF the job is actually right or not. You'd need two tools to make a solid determination. First a way to measure tip resonance - which would show up usually in a freq response measurement. And an eye loupe (or similar) of 5x or better, plus a lot of light and/or a good stereo microscope. The last part will show you the amount of glue used, the positioning, fit and alignment of the stylus and the replacement cantilever section.
Some shops merely do a cut to the old metal cantilever, then shove a new section (often ruby or the like) of cantilever into the old, surrounded by a bonding material. Often the stylus for the ruby and other "gem" cantilevers is made up of a good stylus glued to the gem cantilever. Many carts with gem cantilevers are made this way from the "factory". But when you make one this way you are fighting the "mass war" since mass causes some issues in the response, or can. I've seen a bunch of expensive cartridges with a massive rise above 10kHz, likely do to this sort of thing...
_-_-
bear,
I don't doubt any part of what you're saying, but have never heard anything but good things about the work that SoundSmith do. I've had three cartridges retipped by them with excellent results.
That reminds me, might be time to send in the Shelter 501 MKII for a retip.
I don't doubt any part of what you're saying, but have never heard anything but good things about the work that SoundSmith do. I've had three cartridges retipped by them with excellent results.
That reminds me, might be time to send in the Shelter 501 MKII for a retip.
Sy, Expert Stylus Company replace everything necessary; it's very much an old fashioned type of British company, up there with the likes of Sowter Transformers.
Expert stylus' main business is making diamond cutting tools for optical cable manufacture. Carts are a sideline for them. But given they've been doing it for longer than anyone living other than Aj vdh and they cut and polish their own tips they are probably the best, technically.
As an ex-mechanic, the comparisons to Ferrari parts were pretty amusing. Many of the parts for Ferraris come in Fiat boxes, with Ferrari stickers over the part numbers. At 10x price.
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