Hi guys
So i have been tinkering a bit.
I am thinking a 2 way system might be easier for me to build, as crossovers are not something I have build before.
But but but - if my amp have 50 w per channel, how many watts for the full range woofer and for the tweeter ?
Is it 50w divided by 2?
Thanks a lot in advance from rainy Denmark
So i have been tinkering a bit.
I am thinking a 2 way system might be easier for me to build, as crossovers are not something I have build before.
But but but - if my amp have 50 w per channel, how many watts for the full range woofer and for the tweeter ?
Is it 50w divided by 2?
Thanks a lot in advance from rainy Denmark
If you individually amplify each driver and use DSP you won't need to build crossovers. Amplifiers, switching power supplies, and DSP are inexpensive enough to do that now.
Use individual cheap Chinese amps but keep in mind they have poor quality control. Buy extra and plan on some being bad. Return the extras to the vendor after you finish (make sure your vendor accepts returns before you buy.)
Learning to build passive crossovers is a waste of time for new DIYers. We aren't selling our speakers to the public so they don't need to work with a customer's amplifier. In addition, active is better than passive, as Floyd Toole explains in his Sound Reproduction book:
Nevertheless, a two-way system might still be the best option for you if they reach down into your low frequency room transition range. Low frequencies work differently in small rooms so there's no advantage to reproducing them in your two main stereo channels.
All expensive commercial tower speakers play down into the low frequency range but I don't understand why a DIYer would build their personal system that way. We custom build our systems. We don't need to sell our speakers to customers.
Use individual cheap Chinese amps but keep in mind they have poor quality control. Buy extra and plan on some being bad. Return the extras to the vendor after you finish (make sure your vendor accepts returns before you buy.)
Learning to build passive crossovers is a waste of time for new DIYers. We aren't selling our speakers to the public so they don't need to work with a customer's amplifier. In addition, active is better than passive, as Floyd Toole explains in his Sound Reproduction book:
Nevertheless, a two-way system might still be the best option for you if they reach down into your low frequency room transition range. Low frequencies work differently in small rooms so there's no advantage to reproducing them in your two main stereo channels.
All expensive commercial tower speakers play down into the low frequency range but I don't understand why a DIYer would build their personal system that way. We custom build our systems. We don't need to sell our speakers to customers.
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Just to keep it simple for you, if you follow a reputable, good-for-starters 2-way design, you don't need to worry about how much power is going to each driver. This is a pretty complicated discussion that befuddles a number of those who are quite experienced as well.
You can use a 200watt bass and 30watt tweeter with a 50 watt amplifier no problem. The tweeter will handle more once crossover is added. Total system effect will be the weakest link in this example the amp, so it only means you cannot play as loud as the bass have the potential of without distorting. The important aspect is sensitivity. A 6,5 inch bass may have a sensitivity of 90dB/watt. 1,2,4,8,16,32 watt doubling means 5x3dB plus some additional headroom up to 50 watt will give you potential of 90+15 = 105dB SPL max acoustic effect. If you had a 100 watt amp you could have 110dB which is pretty damn loud you don’t want to play that loud. For most people 50 watt amp is plenty given decent sensitive speakers. However a complicated crossover with baffle step correction may take away another 5dB for you. So tell us rather what size is your room and how loud do you need to play and what is your preference when it comes to low end.
Thanks all 🙂
Great info.
My room is about 30 square meters ( 322 sq. feet ) and I would love to play good music, and also hook it up to my new 75" 4K tv.
Will probably never play as loud as a teenager, but home alone and vacuuming, i would be cool if some music could be heard.
So if I forgo building a cross over, and uses a DSP ( as i planned ), I could do it easily ?
Would think the DSP would be a new steep learning curve so scrapped the idea of using it as crossover
Great info.
My room is about 30 square meters ( 322 sq. feet ) and I would love to play good music, and also hook it up to my new 75" 4K tv.
Will probably never play as loud as a teenager, but home alone and vacuuming, i would be cool if some music could be heard.
So if I forgo building a cross over, and uses a DSP ( as i planned ), I could do it easily ?
Would think the DSP would be a new steep learning curve so scrapped the idea of using it as crossover
Would it be something like this, I would use:
FX-AUDIO M-DIY-60W TPA3118 Amplifier board Class D Mono 60 Watts 4 Ohms - Audiophonics
1 channel amp
For instance - 4 of those to power 2 woofers and 2 tweeters ?
FX-AUDIO M-DIY-60W TPA3118 Amplifier board Class D Mono 60 Watts 4 Ohms - Audiophonics
1 channel amp
For instance - 4 of those to power 2 woofers and 2 tweeters ?
I worked retail part time at Olson's when I was in college. They had a Sanyo car receiver, with separate amps for the W and T. The woofer amp was like 20W, while the tweeter was 5W. I dont recall where the crossover was...
I'd consider the Zoudio amp for what you're doing. It has caveats, like "CD bit rate digital music only" but you'll get 40W (X4 for stereo....) each available for both W and T and the amp's integrated DSP is quite easily setup using a Windows app GUI and USB cable. It displays the crossover graphs and everything for you. Once set, (like your router) you can forget it and enjoy the music. I think this amps sound is quite transparent. I have all my music (CD rips) on a NAS and can play to that amp via my PC or Phone.
I'd consider the Zoudio amp for what you're doing. It has caveats, like "CD bit rate digital music only" but you'll get 40W (X4 for stereo....) each available for both W and T and the amp's integrated DSP is quite easily setup using a Windows app GUI and USB cable. It displays the crossover graphs and everything for you. Once set, (like your router) you can forget it and enjoy the music. I think this amps sound is quite transparent. I have all my music (CD rips) on a NAS and can play to that amp via my PC or Phone.
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DSP or not I think you need a 8” bass for that room as minimum. Or 2x 6,5”. Personally I have 12” in a 10m2 room but then would need to consider 3-way systems. Look at some standard floorstander kits. What is your budget? What is important to you? Deep bass, dynamics, clarity or soundstage? What type of music do you listen to?
Yes, like that. In addition, here is a 100W one channel amp for a little less money. If you bought in bulk from China on Alibaba you could get this amp for around $1.50 each (plus shipping.) One out of ten will be bad due to poor quality control. Nevertheless, when they work their reproduction quality is better than a human is capable of hearing.
TPA3116D2 DC 12V 24V 100W Mono Channel Digital Power Audio Amplifier Board New 192090279548 | eBay
100w is far more power than you'll need but it is inexpensive. You'll probably buy an overpowered switching power supply too for the same reason, power is inexpensive today. Power used to be expensive and that influenced how people built their speakers. As a new DIYer you don't want to handicap yourself by thinking like that, you aren't operating under the same constraints.
Floyd Toole discussed an additional point wrt active (DSP) loudspeakers in Sound Reproduction 3rd edition:
Toole does not recommend automated room correction activated by pressing a button on a commercial receiver. But that's not how DIYers use DSP. We use DSP to individually equalize drivers and eliminate passive crossovers.
DIYers also use DSP to address high vs low frequency behavior in small rooms. That's an area where a new DIYer will excel. Designing for the room's transition frequency will be second nature for you. You'll never complain about a speaker's "lack of low end" because you'll understand low frequencies require a different design strategy (i.e. different speakers.)
By eliminating legacy passive design techniques you leapfrog a lot of pain and agony.
Man doesn’t even know how a crossover works and you want to start him on DSP and active amplification? With assembly-required modules, no less?
CasperH
Start reading the basics and You'll get there.
Why Do Tweeters Blow When Amplifiers Distort?
Start reading the basics and You'll get there.
Why Do Tweeters Blow When Amplifiers Distort?
Designing a passive or dsp 2-way speaker is not easy. Long road and lots of sweat...
I warmly recommend a kit as well, there are many others except Visaton models, prefereably from European source. Woodworking is another challenge...
Højttalere & Byggesæt - FreQuence.dk
All kind of speaker kits - Fidelity Components Shop
Heissmann-Acoustics | Lautsprecher | Heissmann-Acoustics
DIY-Loudspeakers
Strassacker: Speaker - kits - do it yourself
https://www.lautsprecherteile.de/bausaetze/
https://www.lautsprecher-berlin-sho...jectPath=/Shops/62721881/Categories/Bausaetze
I warmly recommend a kit as well, there are many others except Visaton models, prefereably from European source. Woodworking is another challenge...
Højttalere & Byggesæt - FreQuence.dk
All kind of speaker kits - Fidelity Components Shop
Heissmann-Acoustics | Lautsprecher | Heissmann-Acoustics
DIY-Loudspeakers
Strassacker: Speaker - kits - do it yourself
https://www.lautsprecherteile.de/bausaetze/
https://www.lautsprecher-berlin-sho...jectPath=/Shops/62721881/Categories/Bausaetze
Do you know what REW is? Have you studied the manual and know how to use it? Do you have a calibrated microphone?
My guess is that the answer to all of those questions is no.
So do what Juhazi says. Buy a kit designed by someone who really knows what he is doing. Lots of good choices with performance that you won't even come close to matching on your own. At least not until you've gained a lot of experience though many hours of learning and effort.
OK... let me see if I have this straight:
Passive:
- Build a pair of 2-ways from an established design (Zaph, MarkK, Jeff B., Troels, whoever). This is the same for both passive vs DSP + active.
- Build a pair of 2-way crossovers (as part of the aforementioned design). This involves buying crossover components from an online store. You don't even have to know what the components do.
- Get a home theater receiver and plug the speakers in (assuming this isn't for nearfield monitoring or something).
- Enjoy music.
Active:
- Build a pair of 2-ways. Who knows if this is from a design or by breaking new ground.
- Buy 4 mono amps. Or two stereo amps. Or four mono amp modules (which is what you suggested above), at least one power supply, an enclosure, speaker posts, input connectors, power receptacle, probably a ground loop breaker, lots of spacers/standoffs/screws/terminals/more drill bits/taps (maybe)/a punch, maybe a crimper or two, etc. Heck, how about a Dremel while you're at it.
- Get a DSP module. Easiest is probably a miniDSP. Oh, don't forget the measuring mic if not following an established design.
- Figure out how to use the DSP (admittedly, fairly easy)
- Learn about the electrical and acoustical interactions between crossover filters and speaker drivers.
- Figure out what filters to use.
- Plug the speakers in. Oh, did you remember to check the gain structure?
- Is that a ground loop you hear?
I think DSP is great and all, and I actually have an Aurora that needs to get put into a case, but the questions the OP is asking definitely makes me think he needs to go down the route of least-knowledge-required.
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I'd bet dollars to donuts that the integrated noise coming from (even functional) units like those is at least 200-250 uV. That could be a real limitation for critical near-field usage.
Why in the world are you recommending a junkie tinker toy approach to someone who has no experience whatsoever. Who is asking whether you need to split 100W into 50W for the woofer and 50W for the tweeter.
I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the cheap crappy parts that you are recommending. The OP should build a kit by an experience designer if he expects anything resembling high quality sound.
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