many commercial turntables had detachable spindle tips...but that might actually lead to more noise found in the upper frequency range ...In a direct drive system the oneball point bearing vibration isn't really a thing, especially if it's on thin air and it will not overcome the vinyl noise itself anyway.
Teac TN400 made SP10mk2 pale for its magnetic levitation system, beating it in wow and flutter, boot time, etc, etc.
I never understood why it was not a massive success and so few people adopted.
Is it one of those two?
TEAC TN-400 Magnefloat Giradiscos Tocadiscos JH Formula 4 brazo De Tocadiscos Shure V 15 | eBay
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Magnetic levitation by itself sound wonderful but it's completely useless without lateral thrust air or liquid high precision bearing so why would you even bother with it?I spent some time on vinyl cutter sites and finding that a Neumann cutter is using regular ball bearings made me really doubtfull about all this bearing fuss.We should hear the Neumann ball bearings noise on virtually every record made in Europe yet we don't
really...
really...
Magnetic levitation by itself sound wonderful but it's completely useless without lateral thrust air or liquid high precision bearing
That was the reason for its little success then, thanks for the clarification.
That was the reason for its little success then, thanks for the clarification.
I did not see that detail, sorry, 😱 also, my proposal of a simple linear arm (purely mechanical) I still like it ..... (post 14)
This is using a 5 ball thrust bearing and although i can clearly hear the bearing itself if i listen only the mechanical movement of the platter after i have used some thick car grease, it won't make it to the stylus due to .platter+mat damping and record noise...record noise is at -60...70db by itself, the best Yamaha turntable had smth like -85db SNR, but who's gonna hear it? Certainly not a 40+ years old audiophile...
DUAL 1219 Turntable
DUAL 1219 Turntable
@academia 50
if you look at wiki definitions of complete magnetic bearings you spot that they are preffered especially for high speed moving parts while a turntable can hardly qualify as such...if there's smth i like about that teac is its 20 poles motors that was used in other models that thank God were not dicused on diyaudio so that their price go sky high.Here's a motor made in the 70's with such high finish and precision that it literally floats on air.Mine doesn't have 60 slots but it's way better than the best Technics one...
if you look at wiki definitions of complete magnetic bearings you spot that they are preffered especially for high speed moving parts while a turntable can hardly qualify as such...if there's smth i like about that teac is its 20 poles motors that was used in other models that thank God were not dicused on diyaudio so that their price go sky high.Here's a motor made in the 70's with such high finish and precision that it literally floats on air.Mine doesn't have 60 slots but it's way better than the best Technics one...
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Ray - agree 100%. And what about our obsession with SRA/VTA as the warped records changes SRA/VTA dynamically.
When moving the glass platter in Nakamichi dragon CT or tx1000 you also get a little bit of eccentricity in the platter mass ditribution that needs to be counteracted by the bearings yet i never heard anyone complaining about greater rumble on Dragon CT...The problem is real with a lot of vinyls, but usually the tonearm counteracts most of the lateral problems and enlarging the vinyl hole looks simpler than having a killer two tonearms turntable that sells for 10k...For VTA you can do a nice little trick using a displaceable counteweight.
Seek professional counseling.
Besides, you are off-topic. The OP said “tonearm and cartridge are not considered in this design”.
Ray K
Dual:
Good turntable motors and bearings, tone arms, and somewhat flimsy semi-automated mechanisms for my liking.
Automobile grease:
I always use Molykote BR2, it avoids friction, even at low working pressures. Forms a molecular film that penetrates metals.
Levitation:
I agree that a TT is not a high speed train although they use the same principle, but once the device levitates its lateral and vertical displacements must be limited.
Bearing noise:
Assuming the rest of the system is excellent, you also have to have trained ears to perceive wow and flutter. The vast majority of young people are not interested in sound quality. Neither before nor now.
Before they left the turntable for the walk man, now for streaming and smartphones.
The rule seems to be comfort over the SQ, which is logical, although I never had any of those artifacts for my personal use.
Well done. 🙂
Once I tried to fix the automatic advance and return mechanism, I did not get the original spare part, and no adaptation worked well, so I had to do the same as you.
It was totally manual, I do not remember now if I could maintain the damped descent system (lift) since it is associated with the automation.
I think so, in any case, the owner never came back ! 😀
Once I tried to fix the automatic advance and return mechanism, I did not get the original spare part, and no adaptation worked well, so I had to do the same as you.
It was totally manual, I do not remember now if I could maintain the damped descent system (lift) since it is associated with the automation.
I think so, in any case, the owner never came back ! 😀
As Vintage TT's are being discussed, and I am discussing a Vintage DD TT in another Thread.
With this thread referencing the 'ultimate TT Design'
What would be the allowance for the Machining Tolerance between a Platter Spindle and Bearing Housing Bush Interface ?
What would the impact be, on a TT's performance if the Spindle could eccentrically rotate to an excessive degree ?
What would the impact be on a TT's performance if a Platter when seated onto the Platter Spindle, is able not rigidly secured in the mount and able to rock ?
How Critical is it that the entirety of the Bearing Assembly is rigidly secured without a yield ?
I am working on the Basis that the most basic of designs would not engineer for such a condition as the above points to be present and the Ultimate of designs would surpass the basic designs with a host of additional design considerations
With this thread referencing the 'ultimate TT Design'
What would be the allowance for the Machining Tolerance between a Platter Spindle and Bearing Housing Bush Interface ?
What would the impact be, on a TT's performance if the Spindle could eccentrically rotate to an excessive degree ?
What would the impact be on a TT's performance if a Platter when seated onto the Platter Spindle, is able not rigidly secured in the mount and able to rock ?
How Critical is it that the entirety of the Bearing Assembly is rigidly secured without a yield ?
I am working on the Basis that the most basic of designs would not engineer for such a condition as the above points to be present and the Ultimate of designs would surpass the basic designs with a host of additional design considerations
Mine has a quartz lock 12pole direct drive motor
Wow flutter 0.03 % rumble -74db. Circa 1982
Any improvement is minor as it is below the record groove noise.
Wow flutter 0.03 % rumble -74db. Circa 1982
Any improvement is minor as it is below the record groove noise.
I believe that either Kenwood or Mitsubishi addressed that very thing and produced a turntable with it.
So it's a moot point I guess.
And that of course didn't produce any audible improvments.
Dual arms had about 0.03 grams of horizontal friction already.
@wiseoldtech
You're true, i just removed the whole thing becaure i found it too unnecesarily complex for my taste and needs, being a multiplayer , difficult to make it work every now and again as it had some difficult to solve problems right at his arrival, so i simply kept what was working flawless and dumped all the useless automations.We're not in the 80's anymore having no other sound source to listen to...If vinyl is only ceremonial these days , then we should keep it that way, the complete opposite of Dual being this design which honestly...looks unbeatable to me : Pioneer PL-L1000 Linear Tracking Turntable - YouTube
You're true, i just removed the whole thing becaure i found it too unnecesarily complex for my taste and needs, being a multiplayer , difficult to make it work every now and again as it had some difficult to solve problems right at his arrival, so i simply kept what was working flawless and dumped all the useless automations.We're not in the 80's anymore having no other sound source to listen to...If vinyl is only ceremonial these days , then we should keep it that way, the complete opposite of Dual being this design which honestly...looks unbeatable to me : Pioneer PL-L1000 Linear Tracking Turntable - YouTube
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this turntable might anwer to your questions with other questions, but the general idea is that the final error in a system is the sum of all minor errors spread over the entire system and all of them can be adressed individually or we can still dream of one magic touch that can do the balance, but you can't really exclude the tonearm from this dicussion unfortunately cause its abiility to follow the grooves DO solve a lot of mechanical inaccuracies, not all of them, but most of them, this being one of the reasons why not many people were fond to Nakamichi system apart from its price.
The Most Ingenious Turntable from the 1980's - The Legendary Well Tempered Record Player (WTRP) - YouTube
Groundless speculation. Practically all the rebuilt current implementations of the classic idlers are fed from low distortion, accurate sine wave generators. No reference to mains frequency whatsoever. Being fed good power makes the idlers sound better than ever.