Hi,
New to the forum i desinged and built a soundsystem and have recently run into the issue of DJ's clipping and destorying the drivers due to squarewaved signals hitting my amps.
It's taken me 2 years of saving up and building the system and im incredibly proud of it and it sounds incredible the drivers on my bass section are custom desinged and built specificly for this system and the bass cabinets were built around them. So they are very expensive...
My question is i've had square waves hitting my amps and completely frying the drivers
Im a software engineer and audio engineer and id like to combine the two and develop a system that applies soft clipping to a clipped signal to try and smooth of the squarewaves i've searched high and low for some kind of development/pre built dsp board and they are either super expensive or lack a key feature i need which is Balanced XLR inputs and outputs.
Does anyone know of any DSP boards that support SigmaStudio that have balanced xlr? or even have a schematic to add perhaps a daughter board with XLR on them that can be hooked up to an ADAU1701/1452? I looked into FreeDSP auroa but they are out of stock everywhere and getting the boards made and assembled is something i've been struggling to work out how to do.
Anyone with any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
New to the forum i desinged and built a soundsystem and have recently run into the issue of DJ's clipping and destorying the drivers due to squarewaved signals hitting my amps.
It's taken me 2 years of saving up and building the system and im incredibly proud of it and it sounds incredible the drivers on my bass section are custom desinged and built specificly for this system and the bass cabinets were built around them. So they are very expensive...
My question is i've had square waves hitting my amps and completely frying the drivers
Im a software engineer and audio engineer and id like to combine the two and develop a system that applies soft clipping to a clipped signal to try and smooth of the squarewaves i've searched high and low for some kind of development/pre built dsp board and they are either super expensive or lack a key feature i need which is Balanced XLR inputs and outputs.
Does anyone know of any DSP boards that support SigmaStudio that have balanced xlr? or even have a schematic to add perhaps a daughter board with XLR on them that can be hooked up to an ADAU1701/1452? I looked into FreeDSP auroa but they are out of stock everywhere and getting the boards made and assembled is something i've been struggling to work out how to do.
Anyone with any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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I don't see how soft clipping a square wave could make it any less square.
If you know how to build analogue electronic circuits, converting from single-ended to balanced or the other way around need not be exceedingly expensive. There have been several threads about that on the analogue line forum. If it helps, I can try to look them up for you.
If you know how to build analogue electronic circuits, converting from single-ended to balanced or the other way around need not be exceedingly expensive. There have been several threads about that on the analogue line forum. If it helps, I can try to look them up for you.
Professional systems usually have multiple stages of protection in DSP. Mild compression when signal levels start to get a bit too hot, higher signal levels trigger heavier compression, and finally peak limiting. One could also monitor RMS signal levels to prevent driver overheating over time. https://www.livedesignonline.com/gear/amplifiers-to-protect-speakers-account-for-peak-power-rms
EDIT: Of course adding stages of ADC/DSP/DAC processing may involve some loss of sound quality. It would probably help to know more about the system architecture as it is now. Is there already some digital, or is it all analog? Is there a system block diagram?
EDIT: Of course adding stages of ADC/DSP/DAC processing may involve some loss of sound quality. It would probably help to know more about the system architecture as it is now. Is there already some digital, or is it all analog? Is there a system block diagram?
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What Kind of Amplifier and Crossover do you use, Brand and Model, output power ?
A good designed professional amp have
Overload Protection limiter adjustable
Limiter clip cut
destorying the drivers due to squarewaved / Clip signals impossibile !!!
Amp will never clip, signal is smooth, you no need DSP to protect your driver
A good designed professional amp have
Overload Protection limiter adjustable
Limiter clip cut
destorying the drivers due to squarewaved / Clip signals impossibile !!!
Amp will never clip, signal is smooth, you no need DSP to protect your driver
I was going to ask the same. Where do the square waves come from? If it is from hard clipping, a limiter or VCA would be a simple solution.
Or preset a level in the system to just below clipping.
Jan
Or preset a level in the system to just below clipping.
Jan
Dj overdrive the output of the mixing desk ( in other word bad practice from not knowledgable operator).
The real answer is to not let 'DJ' playing in the 'red'... teach them what gain staging is, how to 'read' vu meter and not to use eq to boost at +20db low shelf on a 808 kick, or that preamp gain is not a fader...
This is not going to be an easy task though...
At one point we decided to charge DJ for any damage from root cause like that when we had a soundsystem ( put a gopro looking at desk in case the 'dj' say 'it wasn't me!'... video kill all arguing: in red on vu meter, you pay). It usually make them aware of the issue.
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Otherwise to the OP: THAT 124x as input receiver, THAT 16x6 as line drivers.
And if you fear electrolitycs on signal path:
https://audioxpress.com/article/getting-the-most-from-that-s-balanced-line-drivers-and-receivers
What kind of music you usually play?
I suppose the whole chain before amps is digital or at least players and mixer are?
I get you are proud of your work. The system looks nice, i bet it sound good too.
And if you fear electrolitycs on signal path:
https://audioxpress.com/article/getting-the-most-from-that-s-balanced-line-drivers-and-receivers
What kind of music you usually play?
I suppose the whole chain before amps is digital or at least players and mixer are?
I get you are proud of your work. The system looks nice, i bet it sound good too.
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Are you really sure that the power amps haven't clipped?
How could you be sure? Please describe...
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How could you be sure? Please describe...
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Neither cheap or under rated amps!
@djketley,
could you be more specific about your system architecture? Describe it with a sketch or something, including gear used upstream xover/amps.
It would help define from where the issue could come from.
Could you define the condition in which the damage happened: for how long your system was running, at which spl and which style was played.
I think i spoted a kick drum on stage, so you used it with live instruments too? If yes was there issues with them?
@djketley,
could you be more specific about your system architecture? Describe it with a sketch or something, including gear used upstream xover/amps.
It would help define from where the issue could come from.
Could you define the condition in which the damage happened: for how long your system was running, at which spl and which style was played.
I think i spoted a kick drum on stage, so you used it with live instruments too? If yes was there issues with them?
Member
Joined 2018
Hi djketley-San,
This is just for your information...
FreeDSP Catamaran A/B Optional Balanced Output Board
This optional board is a single-powered unbalance to balance conversion board.
Maybe you need a high voltage Bi-polar powered design version...
FreeDSP Catamaran A/B Discussion Thread
CyberPit
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Sure! Should of given more info it!
4X CDJ 2000 NEXUS connected to a DJM 2000 Via RCA
XLR out from the mixer into a Alen & Heath Zed14 desk XLR out from desk into an XTA 226 crossover low end rolls on around 30hz and rolls off at around 80hz then crossover into the amps (E100 for sub)
The rig was playing drum & bass around 96-105db (we had to turn it down a few times due to noise restrictions) for around 8 hours.
I genuinely think the issue comes from djs completely ramming the outputs.
Image as en example not our mixer but you get the idea
I've been told running a completely digital signal path could eliminate clipping?
Brings back memories of events that would have been awesome if the DJs hadn't been deaf, lol
This needs a big LED display that displays the DJ's fee and decrements it every time it hits the red!
Im half tempted to build some thing that triggers a massive 'penis' light above the djs everytime they clip.
I have limiters enabled already but unfortunately that dosent solve the square wave issue. The XTA dsp I use has a RMS limiter which was setup correctly but the drivers still manged to fry 😐
Perhaps if you where frying HF drivers you could blame clipping in the signal chain. What you show is thermal failure which is caused by long term average power exceeding what the driver is capable of you need to adjust down your thermal limiter. The DP226 seems to only have one limiter per output with a maximum attack time of 90mS idealy you want a longer time constant around 6s for a sub driver to get the most out of it, however even with a shorter time constant you can reduce the average power by setting the limiter threshold lower.