As a beginner with a number of projects on the go - I'm thinking what larger device will help me best in the next year or so of DIY:
So I could my existing scope+sig gen for LCR calculations (I could automate that with a graph I suppose!). I have two battered hand held DMMs that cope with the tube amp at the moment. The options I think that could work best are - a higher precision multimeter (Siglent bench 5.5 digit), or a LCR+ESR meter (East Tester ET4401). I have two SMPS bench power supplies that do the job too so I don't need another PSU.
The obvious thing is - how long with the ET4401 keep it's calibration however it seems to have decent reviews.
I'm torn by having a LCR that could help test/select components (although I tend to overspec at <=1% resistors or 5% film caps due to not having an LCR) or a higher precision multimeter. The amount of components I get and the speed of work is slow - hence I'm leaning to a multimeter.. but then the LCR would be useful for not waisting components (SMD and TH).
Only other option is a SMD soldering station..
I think I'm at the stage when I think - this would be useful (but not a blocker) so depending on situation I'm leaning to each of them!
- 24bit 192KHz ADC - building DIY needs power supplies and DIY clock source (including filtering).
- Hybrid tube amp (balanced circlotron HPA) - my design, needs power supply work, regulators with some final tuning (smallest resistor is 100mR)
- MarcelG's RTZ DAC group buy (again digital so measuring/testing components, etc may be of use)
- Marshall practice miniature amp (old school tube amp)
So I could my existing scope+sig gen for LCR calculations (I could automate that with a graph I suppose!). I have two battered hand held DMMs that cope with the tube amp at the moment. The options I think that could work best are - a higher precision multimeter (Siglent bench 5.5 digit), or a LCR+ESR meter (East Tester ET4401). I have two SMPS bench power supplies that do the job too so I don't need another PSU.
The obvious thing is - how long with the ET4401 keep it's calibration however it seems to have decent reviews.
I'm torn by having a LCR that could help test/select components (although I tend to overspec at <=1% resistors or 5% film caps due to not having an LCR) or a higher precision multimeter. The amount of components I get and the speed of work is slow - hence I'm leaning to a multimeter.. but then the LCR would be useful for not waisting components (SMD and TH).
Only other option is a SMD soldering station..
I think I'm at the stage when I think - this would be useful (but not a blocker) so depending on situation I'm leaning to each of them!
I have no experience with ET4401 but I can recommend DER EE DE 5000 with SMD tweezers (TL-22).
The ET seemed to compare well to a HP LCR and has more resolution to a DER in one youtube comparison.
Naturally you think he's going to be biased as it's sent to him, but the numbers on the other devices seem to match up.
Hi,
I'd say the two most helpful devices are a oscilloscope and a decent multimeter, much more so than an LCR meter.
Followed maybe by a an audio analyzer/soundcard.
You may want to look at the Digilent Analog Discovery2 device that combines several useful devices at the same, such as Osci, signal generator, spectrum and(!) VNA, etc.
For a dedicated osci either get a used analog one for cheap, or a new digital one.
As a new DSO I can really recommend the Siglent brand.
The SDS1104X-E or the SDS2104Xplus are just fantastic powerful devices at their price point.
For a bench multimeter the Siglent SDM3055 is a good choice, but besides 4-wire measurements and some logging functions .... is there enough advantage over a handheld?
With a handheld You don't need to worry about gnd referenced inputs, its simply floating.
The better DMM with higher resolution (say 50.000 counts+) and increased precision are not exactly cheap, though cheaper than a bench DMM. I like to use Brymen DMMs, such as the 867S.
jauu
Calvin
I'd say the two most helpful devices are a oscilloscope and a decent multimeter, much more so than an LCR meter.
Followed maybe by a an audio analyzer/soundcard.
You may want to look at the Digilent Analog Discovery2 device that combines several useful devices at the same, such as Osci, signal generator, spectrum and(!) VNA, etc.
For a dedicated osci either get a used analog one for cheap, or a new digital one.
As a new DSO I can really recommend the Siglent brand.
The SDS1104X-E or the SDS2104Xplus are just fantastic powerful devices at their price point.
For a bench multimeter the Siglent SDM3055 is a good choice, but besides 4-wire measurements and some logging functions .... is there enough advantage over a handheld?
With a handheld You don't need to worry about gnd referenced inputs, its simply floating.
The better DMM with higher resolution (say 50.000 counts+) and increased precision are not exactly cheap, though cheaper than a bench DMM. I like to use Brymen DMMs, such as the 867S.
jauu
Calvin
I have a 1104x-e (hacked to 200MHz), sdg1032 (hacked to 60MHz) and the 24 bit 192Khz ADC protect is for measurement.
I did look at the SDM3055. It too can be hacked (eevblog) in software+hardware mode with extra precision. The SPCI interfaces are useful for automated control (I’ve done bode tests using a python script in place of the SDG).
I did have a look at the brymen about a year ago, one model stood out as a good candidate as it was one of the only DMMs to pass a high voltage (i think it was 5 ot 10kV) test by a youtuber that has logged many dmms including fluke.
Looks like the 867S or 869 is a good match given the 5 digit and reasonable accuracy (for DMM), 1kV CATIV including ohm measurements. Resistanve down to 10mOhm/up to 100M with cap nF to decent uF.
I did look at the SDM3055. It too can be hacked (eevblog) in software+hardware mode with extra precision. The SPCI interfaces are useful for automated control (I’ve done bode tests using a python script in place of the SDG).
I did have a look at the brymen about a year ago, one model stood out as a good candidate as it was one of the only DMMs to pass a high voltage (i think it was 5 ot 10kV) test by a youtuber that has logged many dmms including fluke.
Looks like the 867S or 869 is a good match given the 5 digit and reasonable accuracy (for DMM), 1kV CATIV including ohm measurements. Resistanve down to 10mOhm/up to 100M with cap nF to decent uF.
I'd love a better scope but the 1104x-e does what I need at the moment.
I'm leaning towards the Brymen BM869s due to it's crest feature and fractionally better accuracy/resolution. I calculated the difference in precision is 10mV on a 100V measurement however if it's to be my more accurate/precise form of voltage measurement then it may be the option I'll go for. How good the crest (transient capture) is given the sampling rate is another matter so the majority of the purchase decision between the two is accuracy (although that could be marketing attempting to add value for what is little between the two multimeters).
I can then get a DER EE 5000 or ET at a later date when I establish a need.
Looking at the BOM for the return-to-zero DAC, being able to solder surface mounted my end up being the next purchase although I think the wife will be questioning if I can pack any more into my man cave.
Edit: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/some-problems-with-my-brymen-bm869s/ this seems to indicate an issue with DC+AC measurements, where over 0.8Vdc causes the AC measurement to measure badly. It seems to be something Brymen are noted for and something I would use (tube amp anodes for example).
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I have the 869s and I really like it although I haven't used all its functionality yet. What annoys me the most on this dmm is the rather loud "beep" sound for continuity but I can live with that.
A nice feature is that by setting the dBm measurement for 600 Ohms you can directly measure dBu, which is cool. Not sure if you can do this with other brymen meters but probably you can.
Do you have any issues with DC+AC measurement? If I have 320Vdc and a 8Vac audio waveform on it, I'd like the DMM to be able to measure the peak for example. As this supposedly has Hz measurement I would expect this to be reliable.
I haven't used the DC+AC measurement yet although I'm planning to but I don't work with tubes at all so my working voltages are nowhere near 320 Volts.
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A LCR meter is actually very nice to have, borderline indispensable, and you don't have to spend a fortune for it.
I have the granddaddy of the DE-5000, and I'm very happy with it.
Another nice to have is a good old AC voltmeter that goes all the way pass 100KHz; "normal" DMM's are good to only about 1KHz. I have an old HP 4000 thermocouple true RMS I completely rebuilt and calibrated, but it's a lot of work.
I have the granddaddy of the DE-5000, and I'm very happy with it.
Another nice to have is a good old AC voltmeter that goes all the way pass 100KHz; "normal" DMM's are good to only about 1KHz. I have an old HP 4000 thermocouple true RMS I completely rebuilt and calibrated, but it's a lot of work.
So I've asked on eevblog forums in one of the many Brymen mV AC+DC "issue" threads and got confirmation that it's the mV mode that doesn't like DC where AC+DC in the mV mode needs to be <1.1V. In normal V mode AC+DC is fine for large voltages although naturally you're not getting mV on a 320Vdc but volts, so that would do. You can shove a cap between and AC couple whilst still using mV mode.
Only issue with the old AC meter is I'm short of space. So stacking new bench or being able to stash DMMs is important (hence my two 60V power supplies are SMPS based, the 1104 and SDG are nice sizes).
So it looks like the Mrs is buying me a 869 well she will confiscate the box when it arrives.
Only issue with the old AC meter is I'm short of space. So stacking new bench or being able to stash DMMs is important (hence my two 60V power supplies are SMPS based, the 1104 and SDG are nice sizes).
So it looks like the Mrs is buying me a 869 well she will confiscate the box when it arrives.
I've got the ADC covered - I have a AKM5572 based solution that I just need to have time to crack on with the programming.
I never
I never know where to draw the line between investing my time or money 🙁 and I have too many projects of various shapes, sizes and types and states of completion and I'm risking becoming one of those people who never finishes anything.
That's why I have a limit of physical WIP. I have the ADC and the tube amp at the moment. The RTZ DAC is a group buy and I will order the components (a few are backordering towards later in the year/next year from what I could see). The RTZ is majority SMT along with the lack of though-hole voltage regs vs SMT ones is why I was considering the soldering.
Interesting. So this means that you can't really measure power supply ripple with the 869s, right?
Not small small ripple without a cap in the way. Supposedly at V level ripple it can.
It seems that to get a DMM with true AC + DC needs two metering paths hence the cost point of those is far higher (fluke etc).