I am running a Soap Box Derby race and I saw an announcement system at another race I wanted to duplicate. They used horn speakers connected to a walkie talkie. This allowed a separate walkie talkie to be used as a "microphone". This is an outdoor event and the system is used to announce which racers are on the hill and also times of each heat. We have a small portable speaker with a microphone and it can only be heard by those within 50 ft or so. Any idea how something like that would work and what equipment I need? Or how I might hook additional speakers to the current sound system and run them via wire to other parts of the venue.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Welcome to the forum!
Click on "Report" and ask for your thread to be transferred to the "PA Systems" forum in which you are more likely to receive suggestions.
P.S. The term to use is "Wireless PA system", as described here: https://www.intercomsonline.com/wireless-pa-systems#:~:text=A wireless PA system is a one-way receiver,be used in both noisy or quiet environments.
Also, please supply details of your current sound system in order to gauge its expandability.
Click on "Report" and ask for your thread to be transferred to the "PA Systems" forum in which you are more likely to receive suggestions.
P.S. The term to use is "Wireless PA system", as described here: https://www.intercomsonline.com/wireless-pa-systems#:~:text=A wireless PA system is a one-way receiver,be used in both noisy or quiet environments.
Also, please supply details of your current sound system in order to gauge its expandability.
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The speaker we have is a PYLE PWMA230BT with ports for audio in and out and also has bluetooth. We are able o use it with a microphone plugged into the speaker, it just does not project far enough in an outdoor setting as spread out as we will be.
As you imply, your Pyle portable PA system is best suited to indoor use.
There is no facility to connect additional loudspeakers, but it does have a 1/4" TS line output (AUDIO OUT) which could be used to feed a supplementary amplifier/speaker system.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...00w_wireless_rechargeable_portable.html/specs
There is no facility to connect additional loudspeakers, but it does have a 1/4" TS line output (AUDIO OUT) which could be used to feed a supplementary amplifier/speaker system.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...00w_wireless_rechargeable_portable.html/specs
It is pretty cool portable amp though.
But yes as you heard and seen at another event , Horn loading is very common for public announcement.
The Pyle Portable amp with passive radiator/speaker is rated 94 dB sound pressure at 1 watt
Voice Range Horn speaker get you up too 105 to 110 dB at 1 watt.
So horn loading is the trick.
Pyle Does make various outdoor PA voice range Horns.
Usually 12 to 19 inches. Larger horns will have better low
frequency for voices.
like
Pyle PHSP12
Pyle PHSP16
and many others. big 19" be impressive for sure
i would look at 13" to 16"
Usually the horn speakers are 8 ohms.
Might be confusing these are common for warehouses
or outdoor arenas. So many use " 70 volt or 100volt"
line systems. Which just means the use a special amp
and transformers.
So many of those horns are sold as 70 volt or 100 volt
because they have a transformer.
Otherwise if you just bypass the transformer its just a 8 ohm
speaker.
Far as a full ready go system I would have too search.
Otherwise if you or somebody can bypass the speaker
in the unit you have now, you could just power the horn with
what you have. and just use a basic generic 8 ohm high pass crossover
around 200 or 300 Hz.
To whatever horn you choose
But yes as you heard and seen at another event , Horn loading is very common for public announcement.
The Pyle Portable amp with passive radiator/speaker is rated 94 dB sound pressure at 1 watt
Voice Range Horn speaker get you up too 105 to 110 dB at 1 watt.
So horn loading is the trick.
Pyle Does make various outdoor PA voice range Horns.
Usually 12 to 19 inches. Larger horns will have better low
frequency for voices.
like
Pyle PHSP12
Pyle PHSP16
and many others. big 19" be impressive for sure
i would look at 13" to 16"
Usually the horn speakers are 8 ohms.
Might be confusing these are common for warehouses
or outdoor arenas. So many use " 70 volt or 100volt"
line systems. Which just means the use a special amp
and transformers.
So many of those horns are sold as 70 volt or 100 volt
because they have a transformer.
Otherwise if you just bypass the transformer its just a 8 ohm
speaker.
Far as a full ready go system I would have too search.
Otherwise if you or somebody can bypass the speaker
in the unit you have now, you could just power the horn with
what you have. and just use a basic generic 8 ohm high pass crossover
around 200 or 300 Hz.
To whatever horn you choose
As WhiteDragon says, PA horns are very efficient (high sensitivity) so don't need lots of amplifier power to go loud.
You could buy a supplementary 12V mobile amplifier to which you can connect a low impedance, 8 ohm horn speaker (or four 8 ohm horns connected in series/parallel to give a total impedance of 8 ohm).
The AUDIO OUT on your Pyle would simply be connected to the AUX input on the supplementary amplifier.
The examples shown below are by way of illustration.
You could buy a supplementary 12V mobile amplifier to which you can connect a low impedance, 8 ohm horn speaker (or four 8 ohm horns connected in series/parallel to give a total impedance of 8 ohm).
The AUDIO OUT on your Pyle would simply be connected to the AUX input on the supplementary amplifier.
The examples shown below are by way of illustration.
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P.S. If the output of the supplementary amp is 4 ohm capable (as is the amp shown above) you can attach two 8 ohm horns wired in parallel if required.
basically
And probably stick to the 40 to 70 watt
diaphragms.
and larger horns will have better low range
voice production.
there is plenty of little 8" cheap guys
in 15 to 25 watt range.
Id be looking at 12" and 13" and up
45 to 75 watt.
they likely wont even need that much
power
its more of sound quality.
either get new amplifier. or just use
the current amp. have to get in there
remove connections to current speaker.
and just use those output wires.
can get all fancy and install switchable
output jack to use internal or external
speaker
ironically was just on Facebook marketplace.
Someone was selling huge warehouse paging horns
for 30 bucks. Basically what your looking at.
PA or Paging horns. as mentioned usually
shown as 70 or 100 volt systems. but without
the transformers are 8 ohms
And probably stick to the 40 to 70 watt
diaphragms.
and larger horns will have better low range
voice production.
there is plenty of little 8" cheap guys
in 15 to 25 watt range.
Id be looking at 12" and 13" and up
45 to 75 watt.
they likely wont even need that much
power
its more of sound quality.
either get new amplifier. or just use
the current amp. have to get in there
remove connections to current speaker.
and just use those output wires.
can get all fancy and install switchable
output jack to use internal or external
speaker
ironically was just on Facebook marketplace.
Someone was selling huge warehouse paging horns
for 30 bucks. Basically what your looking at.
PA or Paging horns. as mentioned usually
shown as 70 or 100 volt systems. but without
the transformers are 8 ohms
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I bet it was not a "walkie talkie" at all but a wireless microphone:
so get one and hook it up to a larger PA system, either portable (but wey more powerful than your current one) or fixed PA at the venue.
Is a high pass filter always required, even with the larger horns?
I ask because, back in the 1970s, I used a Tannoy AP30/3 IP 100V line output PA amplifier along with two huge Tannoy PA horns.
The amp was kitted out with a switch which gave a choice of bass CUT or LEVEL, where CUT presumably switched in a high pass filter (see attachment).
Attachments
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With line system 70 / 100 volt you can get away with cheap transformers.
since the low frequency isn't great.
paging system voice isn't too bad no need for filter
this case no transformer just straight to 8 ohm drivers
like any other horn be slightly above cutoff
paging horns be around 300 / 400 Hz
Some people play music over paging systems.
so yes its nice to have filter.
or EQ to cut bass a little.
Its just the Hifi in us I guess.
its often never done.
paging systems get yanked out of warehouses all the
time. Sometimes you find used mamba big old horns
like 16" or 18" used for sale or in the trash for free.
Just seen a bunch of 16" for sale on facebook
in my area. Bass response really good for voice
otherwise about 69 to 129 dollars new.
Dinky squawky 8" sometimes 25 to 40 bucks.
since the low frequency isn't great.
paging system voice isn't too bad no need for filter
this case no transformer just straight to 8 ohm drivers
like any other horn be slightly above cutoff
paging horns be around 300 / 400 Hz
Some people play music over paging systems.
so yes its nice to have filter.
or EQ to cut bass a little.
Its just the Hifi in us I guess.
its often never done.
paging systems get yanked out of warehouses all the
time. Sometimes you find used mamba big old horns
like 16" or 18" used for sale or in the trash for free.
Just seen a bunch of 16" for sale on facebook
in my area. Bass response really good for voice
otherwise about 69 to 129 dollars new.
Dinky squawky 8" sometimes 25 to 40 bucks.
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Thanks, @WhiteDragon - that's in line with my thinking.
If I may summarise:
In a large 8 ohm horn scenario:
If I may summarise:
In a large 8 ohm horn scenario:
- For voice announcements there may be no need to apply bass cut
- For playing music it may be desirable to apply bass cut
Attachments
why not horn load your current Pyle speaker? a simple 45 x 45 degree baffle with a mouth of about nine square feet ought to do nicely the increase in spl would surprise you but where the controls are on the Pyle would be a problem.
placement above crowd height is also a good way to help get more sound out to the crowd ...if the system is simply on the stage or on the ground your dead in the water, a means to elevate the system is a must.
placement above crowd height is also a good way to help get more sound out to the crowd ...if the system is simply on the stage or on the ground your dead in the water, a means to elevate the system is a must.
It would just be too easy that way.
Well, there I always a way - unhook the internal speaker and run wires out the case. But not necessarily a good idea. One slip up and you’ve got no sound at all till it’s replaced. Buying proper professional equipment will result in sticker shock. There are ways of doing things for a reasonable amount of money.
I would use my smallest class D car amplifier (60w real watts X4), bridge channel pairs and drive four re-entrant horns. Biggest horns you want to spend the money on - larger is more intelligible. Connect to the line out of the existing rig, and power with a 12V/7A SLA battery (because they are cheap and I have some already). A smaller car amp would do, but go for class D to get the low power drain. You want about 50-100 real watts, which is about what that Pyle amp really does. There are plenty of cheap battery power class D modules out there, but you get what you pay for. Something that costs $20 on e-bay or Aliexpress wont put out enough real power to be heard. Something designed for 48V would, but then it becomes a major project itself. A ready made car amp is plug and play, priced right, and has an internal DC-DC converter to GET real watts off a battery. Stuff the amp, battery and connectors into a plastic fishing tackle box for easy transport. Find a way to get the speakers about 10 or 15 feet up (look for a place to hang them). It’s all stuff you can easily get and don’t have to pay some premium price for.
Well, there I always a way - unhook the internal speaker and run wires out the case. But not necessarily a good idea. One slip up and you’ve got no sound at all till it’s replaced. Buying proper professional equipment will result in sticker shock. There are ways of doing things for a reasonable amount of money.
I would use my smallest class D car amplifier (60w real watts X4), bridge channel pairs and drive four re-entrant horns. Biggest horns you want to spend the money on - larger is more intelligible. Connect to the line out of the existing rig, and power with a 12V/7A SLA battery (because they are cheap and I have some already). A smaller car amp would do, but go for class D to get the low power drain. You want about 50-100 real watts, which is about what that Pyle amp really does. There are plenty of cheap battery power class D modules out there, but you get what you pay for. Something that costs $20 on e-bay or Aliexpress wont put out enough real power to be heard. Something designed for 48V would, but then it becomes a major project itself. A ready made car amp is plug and play, priced right, and has an internal DC-DC converter to GET real watts off a battery. Stuff the amp, battery and connectors into a plastic fishing tackle box for easy transport. Find a way to get the speakers about 10 or 15 feet up (look for a place to hang them). It’s all stuff you can easily get and don’t have to pay some premium price for.
I've just been looking at the Pyle PWMA230BT manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2376384/Pyle-Pwma230bt.html?page=3#manual
I see there is an "Audio Out" socket on the rear panel of the unit (labelled 30 on the illustration).
I presume this is simply a duplication of the "Audio Output Jack" on the front panel.
It may not be advisible to open up the Pyle to add an external speaker jack as the manual does not tell us into what range of speaker impedances its amplifier can safely operate. Besides, this would invalidate any guarantee that is extant.
The least invasive way to solve your problem is to add a supplementary 12V PA amplifier and horn speakers via the Pyle's Audio Out socket.
Do let us know if you decide to go ahead with a solution to your problem.
I see there is an "Audio Out" socket on the rear panel of the unit (labelled 30 on the illustration).
I presume this is simply a duplication of the "Audio Output Jack" on the front panel.
It may not be advisible to open up the Pyle to add an external speaker jack as the manual does not tell us into what range of speaker impedances its amplifier can safely operate. Besides, this would invalidate any guarantee that is extant.
The least invasive way to solve your problem is to add a supplementary 12V PA amplifier and horn speakers via the Pyle's Audio Out socket.
Do let us know if you decide to go ahead with a solution to your problem.
If you’re gonna do this more than once more, you should get a standalone PA, like the one suggested, connect it to your other device, and use at least two wireless mics, at start and finish, connected to the master PA. It’s a bit of money, the old-school alternative is just a few bullhorns.