The sheer SPL is indeed impressive but this driver generates a lot of IMD:
https://www.justdiyit.com/comparatif-15-pouces-pro/4/
@kouiky,
So cost no object
You should use the mid and tweeter of the Yam and construct a cabinet for them with a good 15" or 2(?) 12" or 2 10". Another good path is to reverse it 180° and don't use the bass, put it on a bass cabinet, dome mid at ears heigth so you have WTM (the top W of the Yam, not used). Recap with the good caps and resistors by making external the Yam filter . Good coils may you bring further. For the resitor MOX as Wireound or Bulk fromMundorf are hard to beat (MOX are no special from Mundorf but has to be tested as it smooth some mids too much metalic sound which is not the Be of your Yam by luck)
For the 10" and 12", the Revelator are exeensive but will bring you where you want to go. But sealed should be better than average vented. This what Joachim Gherard is using in his top of the line loudspeakers (Suesskind). SO you can land near that
From there 12" could be the talked SB34 RNXL, JBLs, AE and TD drivers, the woven carbon Davis acoustic Tad uses the cone, EMS Drivers 12" annd 15" developped for hifi with the old JBL/Altec sauce T&S numbers with soeedier Qts. ALso it is possible to find B&W bass units of the 800 line too. Perhaps the 15" woveen carbon from SB which is a copy of the Davis, but no one in the world benchmarked both ! TDA1601 may winn cause the motor and 16", many in France use it sealed.
With PA, 15" Fs migth be a little short but for sealed perhaps (means go for 18" PA sealed : Faital, 18 th Sounds, BMS, RCF) ?
If I had the monney for thatI really enjoy the journey going that path, of course YMMV.
Another path could be 4 ways with the WTM of above with a 10" from PHL audio til 60/80 hz then distributed bass subs à la Geddlle (rythmik audio or any good enoughs)
So cost no object
You should use the mid and tweeter of the Yam and construct a cabinet for them with a good 15" or 2(?) 12" or 2 10". Another good path is to reverse it 180° and don't use the bass, put it on a bass cabinet, dome mid at ears heigth so you have WTM (the top W of the Yam, not used). Recap with the good caps and resistors by making external the Yam filter . Good coils may you bring further. For the resitor MOX as Wireound or Bulk fromMundorf are hard to beat (MOX are no special from Mundorf but has to be tested as it smooth some mids too much metalic sound which is not the Be of your Yam by luck)
For the 10" and 12", the Revelator are exeensive but will bring you where you want to go. But sealed should be better than average vented. This what Joachim Gherard is using in his top of the line loudspeakers (Suesskind). SO you can land near that
From there 12" could be the talked SB34 RNXL, JBLs, AE and TD drivers, the woven carbon Davis acoustic Tad uses the cone, EMS Drivers 12" annd 15" developped for hifi with the old JBL/Altec sauce T&S numbers with soeedier Qts. ALso it is possible to find B&W bass units of the 800 line too. Perhaps the 15" woveen carbon from SB which is a copy of the Davis, but no one in the world benchmarked both ! TDA1601 may winn cause the motor and 16", many in France use it sealed.
With PA, 15" Fs migth be a little short but for sealed perhaps (means go for 18" PA sealed : Faital, 18 th Sounds, BMS, RCF) ?
If I had the monney for thatI really enjoy the journey going that path, of course YMMV.
Another path could be 4 ways with the WTM of above with a 10" from PHL audio til 60/80 hz then distributed bass subs à la Geddlle (rythmik audio or any good enoughs)
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Hi Arez,
thank you for the reply.
I was just wondering, if there is a better arrangement, as I not sure whether I interpret the the modelling tools results correctly. By means of an example, many discussions recommend as big a volume of the enclosure as possible, but if, and it is a big if, I interpret the results correctly, there is not much gain over about 130l because the power limitation..
Hi diyiggy,
Kindest regards,
M
thank you for the reply.
I saw @planet10's enclosure, he posted it several times, but it was developed for a customer, so no public disclosure. Additionally, I prefer a sealed arrangement, I understand several people use it that way, as I do in about 100l cabinet.
I was just wondering, if there is a better arrangement, as I not sure whether I interpret the the modelling tools results correctly. By means of an example, many discussions recommend as big a volume of the enclosure as possible, but if, and it is a big if, I interpret the results correctly, there is not much gain over about 130l because the power limitation..
Hi diyiggy,
Would you have link to some of the speakers?
Kindest regards,
M
I don't have, it is old litterature and forums some not existing anymore. At least if you read french Melaudia forum migth have several users, some having peronal sites iirc. But many that spent monney as high eff is traditional in France because Hiraga and his papers on Japan hifi, finished with it and the TAD motors or close enough. I don't think it is needed to go there, you will find better horn advices here and people to help on the cabinet load.
I second @ScottG msg#4 and @diyiggy msg#142. My basement NS-500YST servo 10" is supposed to have better bass than the passive 12" NS-1000. I also added electrostatic or Be supertweeter to compensate for the Japanese darker sound (despite the 500 having smaller vapor-deposit Be midrange/tweeter than the 1000). But having recently tried several 15" it would be difficult for me to downsize; except maybe alnico 12" doubled. My main constraint is weight and therefore size.
May you please tell us what is the square meter size of your listening room to have an idea for us, please ?
The OP's in msg#34. I have various, very different listening spaces: alcove-bay-window; end-of-bed; 3.5x6 shared office; 5x5 bedroom; 5x8 basement; open floor-plan retreat say 3/4 of 8x8 open to 2FL so 6.5m ceiling. Some can be partially seen in the Fullrange photo gallery.
My first speakers out of grad school were ESL63. Then Monitor Audio Studio series. Much later, Lowthers. Briefly Goodmans Axiom80. Moving to Beijing for work changed things. Sort of a minimalist audiophile-purist approach.
So 15" works fine for you till 20 square meter to more.
I am focused because of size between a 12" or two 10" (somthing sb34 range or 10" SS Disco will fit my budget) 40 square meters Living room (appartment, so anywway not shaking hifi)
I am focused because of size between a 12" or two 10" (somthing sb34 range or 10" SS Disco will fit my budget) 40 square meters Living room (appartment, so anywway not shaking hifi)
I use the 10" Discovery driver (26W8534G00) and they are very good, but low power. The xmax is limited. But for the small space (3.5x6x2.5m) i use them in this does not matter at all. The SB34 can do the same, but louder but needs a bigger box (the SB34NRX75-6 at least). The Faital 12FE330 does also the same, but goes even louder than the SB34 in more or less the same size cabinet. But it has similar sound quality than the Scanspeak or the SB. If that Faital would have been availeble (i have the scanspeak now 10 years) i would probally not have bought the scanspeak, but that Faital.
26w discovery @ 200€
Td15x 1000€ atleast for any european.
Depending on what one prioritizes the AE is certainly not 5 times better in any department and worse in some.
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/scan-speak/scanspeak-26w/4534g00
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/lambda-acoustics/lambda-acoustics-td15x-apollo
Td15x 1000€ atleast for any european.
Depending on what one prioritizes the AE is certainly not 5 times better in any department and worse in some.
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/scan-speak/scanspeak-26w/4534g00
https://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/lambda-acoustics/lambda-acoustics-td15x-apollo
Stay within the limits of the driver and you got a great sound, push the driver to far and distortion kicks in. But you got an clean 95dB at 30Hz in a sealed config (like i use them) and with ported you easely hit 100dB clean at 30Hz, How they are now is more than loud enough for the room i have them in. But they are not fit for big spaces or to give parties with or so, they don't go loud enough.
I asked a lot to Profiguy, Kwesi and IamJF about those SS and SB.
Above 200 hz th RNXL is advised. But he needs more EQ in the lows because the not as good sol low end curve and 2 per channel seems better two of them said to EQ (I asked sealed)
If you use the SB sealed, use the SB3NRX75-6 as it's best fitted. But today i would use neighter of them and go for the Faital like said before. I use the SS driver to 300Hz now without i feel that i crosso to high. I even used it for test to about 900Hz (with a CD in a horn and a higher order dsp crossover) and even there it was still good. How high you can use it depends a lot on the filters you use, and for a 1st or second order i would not go above 500Hz with this driver. Idem with the SB34.
The Faital has a wider flat frequency range and a higer clean volume than both the SB and the SS. But it's not fit for sealed maybe. If sealed is needed, then depending on what you want to do with it both the SS and the SB, both have their strengths and weaknesses. The SS allows a smaller cabinet without the need for a lot of eq, while the SB3NRX75-6 goes clean louder, but need a bigger cabinet. Sound quality wise they are very close to each other.
The Faital has a wider flat frequency range and a higer clean volume than both the SB and the SS. But it's not fit for sealed maybe. If sealed is needed, then depending on what you want to do with it both the SS and the SB, both have their strengths and weaknesses. The SS allows a smaller cabinet without the need for a lot of eq, while the SB3NRX75-6 goes clean louder, but need a bigger cabinet. Sound quality wise they are very close to each other.
Piega Classic 80.2 uses 2 per side ported, and Piega talking about reaching 22 hz.
Xover at 450 or 650 hz (don´t remember), to Piegas own-made C1 coaxial ribbon.
Had listening on them many times, and it´s real good and "punchy".
But of couse missing the low 20 ish tones if you used to have it.
You can tune that driver very low, but then you will need 2 indeed, because the max volume that low will be very limited. I tried that also (when i first had the driver, tuned to 25Hz) but for music that is too low i think, Now it's in a sealed cabinet tuned to 30Hz and the bass sounds way better i think.
Btw, almost no vinyl and very few digital tracks have content under 30Hz, as it's very hard to get that on vinyl it bcame a standard for low cutting in mastering. There are exceptions but they are very rare. Under 30Hz is mainly important for HT sound effects, not for music.
Btw, almost no vinyl and very few digital tracks have content under 30Hz, as it's very hard to get that on vinyl it bcame a standard for low cutting in mastering. There are exceptions but they are very rare. Under 30Hz is mainly important for HT sound effects, not for music.
Dropped vinyl 1988 and cd´s up to ca 1995 had not much under 45 hz, if you ask me.
But in "today´s" music streaming, it´s totaly different.
Isen´t there some 15 inch, that works good in 50-75 liters?
2 x 15 inch per side in "acceptable box", will give good conditions.
And maby use one of them only up ca 150 hz, so one of them could be sidemounted? (and have headroom)
So what good 15 inchers thrive in a small box?
Seems like a situation where you better hope room gain makes up for the lack of efficiency
I think I could easily find material lower than that. Probably more of a genre specifc aspect