I belive there are many studio tools which emulate classic components. There are also plenty of guitar amps which will emulate the sound of others. You could certainly have some fun with convolution and emulating certain tube products. It could certainly make for some entertaining comparisons. The only thing I don't think will directly translate through convolution is the dynamic qualities where the impulse is gathered at some specific level.
Audiophilenoob said:
Noob,
Read on since it answers your question and offers improvements over the CurveEQ DRC method.
I've been playing with the Waves IR-1 v2 parametric convolution reverb and I must say its quite a performer. I've been using it as DRC over the CurveEQ.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You can quite easily capture room impulse using it and it gives you the RT60 decay etc. as well as a shed load of manipulation tools.
Still lots more playing but already I'm getting better results using it than CurveEQ.
BUT!
You can capture impulse response's of equipment also. So you can emulate that tube sound this way as well as pretty much anything else. I wanted to test this out so I capture the impulse from my quite shocking AC97 onboard audio which is normally disabled. Sure enough it sounded just as naff after passing audio through the convolutor, even down to the hiss and slightly distorted bass
There's also a nice library of captured impulses here:
http://www.acoustics.net/
And Waves have a CD full of famous venues that are very nice/high quality. Its around 400mb but could do you a copy if you cover postage. BTW: Waves doesn't charge for this disc so its legal.
Nice job here !
We are working on stuffs like that with people from a french forum.
Here is what we did, no I think we are going to try Voxengo Pristine Space :
http://satriani.nerim.net/pages/pchc/audio.php?lang=en
We are working on stuffs like that with people from a french forum.
Here is what we did, no I think we are going to try Voxengo Pristine Space :
http://satriani.nerim.net/pages/pchc/audio.php?lang=en
Very very interresting !
I'd like to go this way but I'm a little bit afraid of what kind of sound can go out of sound card when starting system and when shutting it off.
usa_satriani, I'd like to experiment this kind of filtering, I already use a PC as a source, I've put my 540 CDs on two HDDs using EAC and no compression.
I'd like to go this way but I'm a little bit afraid of what kind of sound can go out of sound card when starting system and when shutting it off.
usa_satriani, I'd like to experiment this kind of filtering, I already use a PC as a source, I've put my 540 CDs on two HDDs using EAC and no compression.
The problem of clicks and bumps in the loudspeaker when you turn off the PC can be eliminated by using a relay. I am using a Phidget relay connected to the computer by a USB cable. The relay can be controlled by all sorts of programming languages. I am using Girder and Lua Scripts. The amplifiers shuts automaticly down a couple of seconds before the computer shuts off. (And on when i turn the computer on.) I also use Girder together with a remote control to control the soundcard volume (Lynx Two B)
I believe the audiotrack prodigy has been mentioned as a card that will possibly work for crossover duty. Has anyone tested it yet to see for sure. Also will it be possible to use 2 of them together for a total of 16 channels? Here is link to the card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829152008R
Shin & Goose,
Great info here guys, and thanks for sharing. I hope all this work is being done toward a profitable end, like a plug and play setup for non-compugeeks like myself.
After wading thru the entire thread there's something wrong with Waves, and it's the major expense.
I'm interesting in purchasing a setup, ready to go and easy to use. My alternative is DCX, but I want top notch EQ. I want ideal XO for multi-channel and sub, but for room correction, I'm perfectly happy with physical correction, not processed, for the valid reasons discussed. I use OB anyway, so I doubt the program could handle it.
Freeware is fine. I'll pay for the setup and to give me easy consoles to make adjustments. Just load what I need on a hard drive and I'll buy whatever hardware I need for almost plug and play potential.
Quote me a price via email and recover some $$$ for all the hard work you've put into this effort. I'm not a total compu dummy and have some technical assistance on this end, so I promise not to be a time eater with stupid questions and endless need of assistance.
Let me know if you are interested. I believe computers can process what I need in the digital domain to far exceed the potential of analog XO's , but I don't want to go the DCX route if it is inferior.
Great info here guys, and thanks for sharing. I hope all this work is being done toward a profitable end, like a plug and play setup for non-compugeeks like myself.
After wading thru the entire thread there's something wrong with Waves, and it's the major expense.
I'm interesting in purchasing a setup, ready to go and easy to use. My alternative is DCX, but I want top notch EQ. I want ideal XO for multi-channel and sub, but for room correction, I'm perfectly happy with physical correction, not processed, for the valid reasons discussed. I use OB anyway, so I doubt the program could handle it.
Freeware is fine. I'll pay for the setup and to give me easy consoles to make adjustments. Just load what I need on a hard drive and I'll buy whatever hardware I need for almost plug and play potential.
Quote me a price via email and recover some $$$ for all the hard work you've put into this effort. I'm not a total compu dummy and have some technical assistance on this end, so I promise not to be a time eater with stupid questions and endless need of assistance.
Let me know if you are interested. I believe computers can process what I need in the digital domain to far exceed the potential of analog XO's , but I don't want to go the DCX route if it is inferior.
I DID read the whole thread but my head is swimming.
I had an Audigy 2 (one of the first) blow out on me recently - anyone have a recommendation for a PC sound card that I could eventually try this with?
This would be purely for DVD movie playback - and I do have 2 HTPC's but would prefer not to have lipsync issues AND want to use the 2nd HTPC in another room. So I'd want to do this in the same PC with lipsync correction.
Pretty soon every room will have it's own PC.
Budget: below 300 bucks. Important: at least 6.1, without all the fancy DRC. Expandable so I can try bi/tri amping (of my Thors), so that would be 12 out minimum (expansion).
Any Firewire / USB possibilities?
I had an Audigy 2 (one of the first) blow out on me recently - anyone have a recommendation for a PC sound card that I could eventually try this with?
This would be purely for DVD movie playback - and I do have 2 HTPC's but would prefer not to have lipsync issues AND want to use the 2nd HTPC in another room. So I'd want to do this in the same PC with lipsync correction.
Pretty soon every room will have it's own PC.
Budget: below 300 bucks. Important: at least 6.1, without all the fancy DRC. Expandable so I can try bi/tri amping (of my Thors), so that would be 12 out minimum (expansion).
Any Firewire / USB possibilities?
there is pretty good freeware linear phase EQ . anybody can try linear phase xovers for free . get it here :
http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/
http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slider/vst/
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jgwinner said:I DID read the whole thread but my head is swimming.
I had an Audigy 2 (one of the first) blow out on me recently - anyone have a recommendation for a PC sound card that I could eventually try this with?
This would be purely for DVD movie playback - and I do have 2 HTPC's but would prefer not to have lipsync issues AND want to use the 2nd HTPC in another room. So I'd want to do this in the same PC with lipsync correction.
Pretty soon every room will have it's own PC.
Budget: below 300 bucks. Important: at least 6.1, without all the fancy DRC. Expandable so I can try bi/tri amping (of my Thors), so that would be 12 out minimum (expansion).
Any Firewire / USB possibilities?
You'll need to go with an expandable card for sure to do 6.1. The setup I have now will do 16 channels. At the moment I'm using 10 of those so I've got the capability to move to 7.2 or 9.2 with just the fronts filtered.
The only card I'd recommend for the job is the RME HDSP 9632 with the 4 channel 192Khz DAC expansion and the 8 channel basic DAC expansion. Alternatively you can use the RME HDSP 9652 and buy an outboard DAC and clock as I've just done. Its not cheap though:
RME HDSP 9652 £350
Apogee DA16X £2500
But with the Apogee I've got 16 channels of top notch DAC's with 192Khz capability and the Apogee also features the clocking from Apogee's Bigben master clock. All in all it sounds incredibly nice.
Card like the Maudio, Audiotrak and Emu don't have the neccessary number of channels for what you desire. Also don't forget that even though you might not be looking at DRC at this time you'll still definitely need a dedicated PC XO if your wanting to do 6.1 and playback DVD or HDTV etc. The video processing alone is quite enough without 6 channels of FIR filters and associated digital delays.
All in all, I think you'd be best of with something like the DCX if $300 is your budget. I'm half regretting putting all this info up because I was somewhat short sighted with the cost aspect of the whole system and whilst a lot of folks would like to try it out the fact is its around $2000-3000 to implement a highly compentant and best performing PC XO. That puts it squarely in DEQX and TACT territory. The PC XO offers better quality than either of those and certainly far more expandability and capability but you've got the downside of ease of use or rather the lack of it to all but the most dedicated of individuals, there's no documentation on how to do it, you just need to become familiar with the software and hardware and bend it to your needs - once setup you can just completely leave it alone and it will function endlessly without fiddling however this is only IF you go the dedicated PC route, I can't stress that enough because if you try to do this on a single machine, you'll be very dissapointed and possibly damage your speakers with artifacts caused from bottleneck glitches.
I could easily build ready made examples completely loaded with the software and hardware but again I'd be wanting a considerable sum for just the hardware and software, then add in my 'incentive' for doing the whole thing and the price starts to look daunting. I think this will remain a very small niche for the dedicated few, its a real shame because it sounds out of this world compared to the stuff I've had in my humble system before.
Just one note:
You can try this out using free software, basic hardware and a simple stereo setup but the fact is its not a patch on the big setup. For me its either all or nothing. If anyone has any questions about the big rig PC XO then I'll be glad to try and help but for the other methods there's just far too many variables that I can't answer because I don't have a thorough experience with them - sorry.
ShinOBIWAN,
I for one really appreciate the great info on what's possible with what I consider an unlimited budget, however, we're are talking about just software and some PC cards.
I'm ready for my first foray into active XOs and I want to maximize SQ without breaking the bank. I'm concerned about the transparency of something like the DCX and don't mind spending 3 or 4 times that much if I can get a significant step up from the DCX. What would you recommend for someone wanting to get their feet wet, while we all wait for a cheap plug and play solution that achieves the quality you have?
I for one really appreciate the great info on what's possible with what I consider an unlimited budget, however, we're are talking about just software and some PC cards.
I'm ready for my first foray into active XOs and I want to maximize SQ without breaking the bank. I'm concerned about the transparency of something like the DCX and don't mind spending 3 or 4 times that much if I can get a significant step up from the DCX. What would you recommend for someone wanting to get their feet wet, while we all wait for a cheap plug and play solution that achieves the quality you have?
johninCR said:
Minimum spec just for a 3-way stereo setup with NO video playback or multichannel audio would be:
All in one PC with:
- 3Ghz+ or equivalent(AMD) CPU
- 1Gb Memory
- 40Gb+ Harddisk
- Any graphics card that works really, quieter the better though.
- RME HDSP 9632 with AO-192S expansion for a simple stereo 3-way setup.
The software side of things....
- Plug-in Client: Console
- FIR filters: Waves LineEQ
- DRC: Waves IR1 or Voxengo Pristine Space + Dennis's DRC
- Delays: Voxengo Sample Delay or Voxengo Audio Delay
This setup will be fine with just stereo playback and providing you leave the PC well alone whilst playback is in progress.
Again the problem is the software since it cost more than the actual hardware. I didn't actually pay a penny for Waves and for that I'm truly greatful but not everyone knows somebody in the 'know' so it makes things difficult.
The bonus to it all is that its completely upgradable, so you can add bits as you feel like it.
Anyway that's the spec I recommend for a barebones PC that can tackle stereo with 3-way speakers using FIR filters and DRC.
I expect in 5 to 10 years DRC and FIR filters will be available in a DCX style package and at DCX style prices. By that time this PC XO scheme I've outlined here will be a mere curiosity but perhaps the PC will still be king thanks to the evolution of related software and hardware.
The driving force behind all this is multichannel, already we see amps integrating rudimentary DRC and flagship model sporting some very nice DRC processing such as the top of the line Denon AV amp. Its enevitable that one of the last and almost completely neglected aspects to distortion introduced into the audio chain is the room, its only in very recent years that technology, processing power and understanding have become available to implement such techniques to curb room influences.
Its a most fascinating subject and one that will only grow and become more mature in time.
The driving force behind all this is multichannel, already we see amps integrating rudimentary DRC and flagship model sporting some very nice DRC processing such as the top of the line Denon AV amp. Its enevitable that one of the last and almost completely neglected aspects to distortion introduced into the audio chain is the room, its only in very recent years that technology, processing power and understanding have become available to implement such techniques to curb room influences.
Its a most fascinating subject and one that will only grow and become more mature in time.
ShinOBIWAN,
As an alternative to purchasing Waves or parts of Waves, can you comment on the difficulty of setup and SQ of going EwildGoose's route with something like BruteFIR?
At first 3 way stereo will suit my needs. A computer is no problem and hardware in the form of cards that are expandable makes sense.
As an alternative to purchasing Waves or parts of Waves, can you comment on the difficulty of setup and SQ of going EwildGoose's route with something like BruteFIR?
At first 3 way stereo will suit my needs. A computer is no problem and hardware in the form of cards that are expandable makes sense.
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