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I bought the board a while ago and during several house moves I lost the circuit board and all the bits I had purchased to solder it up.
I have four [4] cheap "subwoofer" drivers from HTiaB bass boxes the amps of which died and not worth repairing.
They have massive roll surrounds and very high Fs ( 47Hz) and a Vas of 25 litres.
I was thinking I should try and use these in as small a box as possible and use the ELF controller.
So the question is this.
Is it a worthwhile project and does the controller work, and is it a beginners thing? My soldering is OK but I'm really a fumble fingers and my eyesight ain't the best these days
I did try selling the drivers here a couple of years back and I got no inquiries at $40- each even after dropping to $30- each
Scroll to project 48
I bought the board a while ago and during several house moves I lost the circuit board and all the bits I had purchased to solder it up.
I have four [4] cheap "subwoofer" drivers from HTiaB bass boxes the amps of which died and not worth repairing.
They have massive roll surrounds and very high Fs ( 47Hz) and a Vas of 25 litres.
I was thinking I should try and use these in as small a box as possible and use the ELF controller.
So the question is this.
Is it a worthwhile project and does the controller work, and is it a beginners thing? My soldering is OK but I'm really a fumble fingers and my eyesight ain't the best these days
I did try selling the drivers here a couple of years back and I got no inquiries at $40- each even after dropping to $30- each
I read the article, it’s a well written explanation. I think it’s worth while if that’s what you want. You need a powerful amplifier. A fair bit of work to build speaker boxes. Soldering the components is easy if you have done it before or it should be easy enough to learn to do it.
Good luck
Good luck
DSP will work better to make an ELF processor than a fixed circuit, you can use the amp's DSP to EQ the subs (unknown) response flat as low as you want, and set it's frequency dependent limiter so it stays within the excursion that you decide does not distort it too badly without affecting the upper range.
As Bag End (the company that patented their ELF processor) puts it:
“The ELF concealment performs dynamic control
of reducing the low frequency extension. It will
allow the system to play with the upper bass notes
unaffected while protecting the system from overload
caused by playing the lower notes louder than the
amplifier and/or loudspeaker can reproduce safely and
undistorted.”
“While the INFRASUB-18 will reproduce 8 Hz, it
is not audible nor does it have enough acoustical
power for you to feel it. The measurements
are taken at close range with sensitive instruments.
To achieve a flat response, as shown in
figure 1, full amplifier power (400 watts) is used at the lowest
frequencies and very little (<1 Watt) in the
upper frequency range.”
The smaller the box, the more power will be required to reach (or exceed) the speaker's Xmax.
Make the box(s) as large as your wife will allow
As Bag End (the company that patented their ELF processor) puts it:
“The ELF concealment performs dynamic control
of reducing the low frequency extension. It will
allow the system to play with the upper bass notes
unaffected while protecting the system from overload
caused by playing the lower notes louder than the
amplifier and/or loudspeaker can reproduce safely and
undistorted.”
“While the INFRASUB-18 will reproduce 8 Hz, it
is not audible nor does it have enough acoustical
power for you to feel it. The measurements
are taken at close range with sensitive instruments.
To achieve a flat response, as shown in
figure 1, full amplifier power (400 watts) is used at the lowest
frequencies and very little (<1 Watt) in the
upper frequency range.”
The smaller the box, the more power will be required to reach (or exceed) the speaker's Xmax.
Make the box(s) as large as your wife will allow
After some research [ ie Master Google] that is what I decided. but most of the amps available here that have DSP built is are much more powerful than I'd really need, the drivers are only good for about 50 to 80 watts continuous
These pro amps seem to start at around $1200Aud- and 2000W but I did find this cheap Behringer and wondered what people thought about
https://www.bashsmusic.com.au/product/behringer-nx1000d-power-amplifier-with-smartsense/
Edit
I'm trying to avoid buying another Behringer DCX 2496
These pro amps seem to start at around $1200Aud- and 2000W but I did find this cheap Behringer and wondered what people thought about
https://www.bashsmusic.com.au/product/behringer-nx1000d-power-amplifier-with-smartsense/
Edit
I'm trying to avoid buying another Behringer DCX 2496
Last edited:
Works !
I had a Monitor audio Silver sub that died.
Removed the electronics and used with an amp...all good!
Re the nx1000d I've read in several places that the fan is quite loud and continuously runs, if that matters for your application. I don't know if you can get crown amps over there, but FWIW their XLS series are said to be quieter: the fan comes on only when needed, which apparently is rare in home applications.
Unfortunately the 'cheap' plate amps that people often refer to on diyaudio aren't cheap here. So like you I've been looking at pro amps instead, and think I'll try the crowns. I don't know how sophisticated (or not) their dsp is compared to e.g. hypex plate amps, though.
Unfortunately the 'cheap' plate amps that people often refer to on diyaudio aren't cheap here. So like you I've been looking at pro amps instead, and think I'll try the crowns. I don't know how sophisticated (or not) their dsp is compared to e.g. hypex plate amps, though.
Then they should take ~200-320 watts peak.
I've been happy with the NU4-6000, and from what I read the NX series is slightly improved.
For home use, a few layers of cotton quieted the fans down to an acceptable level
The NX1000D has the processing required:
though I'd recommend getting the NX3000D (or NX6000D), you can always limit the power, but you can't make more if you need it.
As light as these amps are, and with 19 user definable presets, you may want to use it for your party systems too.
Art
Its going to be shot in the dark without knowing TS data on the drivers, you might be wasting your time and money but at the end of the day they will work, for better or for worse... Usually rubber surrounds mean low Fs and thats a no no for ELF, better in a ported design I think.
I have never used Rods circuit, but I love his / ELF concept and have used it with lots of different drivers over the years... A good Pro driver like the Beyma 15 LX60 or the 18 LX 60 sounds amazing in an ELF design.
A lot depends on the quality / capability of your DSP, and you do need a good power amp with lots of current as well as power.
The core principal of ELF is to operate the sub below its box resonance frequency, so one must start with a driver which has a high Fs, usually min 40Hz, even better with nearer 50Hz if possible. Also in order to minimise cone excursion a 15 or 18 inch driver is good, 21 inch would be great!
Before you spend good $$$ just build a simple cheap test cabinet for one sub, sealed box using 12mm MDF is enough, and just take basic measurements to establish Fb and approx sensitivity/excursion at a given SPL in room... Corner placement is a big advantage for ELF, esp a compromised one using low Fs drivers.
If you build the test box big and have a simple screw on back panel, you can simply add house bricks to "use up" the cabinet volume... Test and measure until you reach the point where you cannot fit any more bricks (or half/quarter pieces) inside the box.
You will now have a good idea of will it work, how much power required at each volume to reach a given SPL and approx excursion.
If it all stacks up and you like the sound, build serious heavy sealed boxes using 24mm birch ply or stranded bamboo of your chosen volume and you are good to go!
I have never used Rods circuit, but I love his / ELF concept and have used it with lots of different drivers over the years... A good Pro driver like the Beyma 15 LX60 or the 18 LX 60 sounds amazing in an ELF design.
A lot depends on the quality / capability of your DSP, and you do need a good power amp with lots of current as well as power.
The core principal of ELF is to operate the sub below its box resonance frequency, so one must start with a driver which has a high Fs, usually min 40Hz, even better with nearer 50Hz if possible. Also in order to minimise cone excursion a 15 or 18 inch driver is good, 21 inch would be great!
Before you spend good $$$ just build a simple cheap test cabinet for one sub, sealed box using 12mm MDF is enough, and just take basic measurements to establish Fb and approx sensitivity/excursion at a given SPL in room... Corner placement is a big advantage for ELF, esp a compromised one using low Fs drivers.
If you build the test box big and have a simple screw on back panel, you can simply add house bricks to "use up" the cabinet volume... Test and measure until you reach the point where you cannot fit any more bricks (or half/quarter pieces) inside the box.
You will now have a good idea of will it work, how much power required at each volume to reach a given SPL and approx excursion.
If it all stacks up and you like the sound, build serious heavy sealed boxes using 24mm birch ply or stranded bamboo of your chosen volume and you are good to go!
Suitable for outdoor use?
All my spare amps are stereo so I was thinking I'd need to get myself a mono amp or at least a decent bridgeable one; although the alternative is to make another tower and use it with the big 18" somehow.
At the moment it's a theoretical project but nobody wanted to buy the drivers when I tried to sell them
The NU4-6000 is four channels, I ran a pair of channels bridged mono into a four ohm load sub for ~3000 watts peak, the other two channels for 4 ohm mid and 8 ohm high, an amp on either side of the stage covering the stereo system.
Another pair of NU4-6000 running stage monitors and front fills.
When using a NU4-6000 for home use, I covered the front and back of the amp rack with a few layers of cotton fabric similar to denim jeans. Still allowed enough air flow, but cut the noise down to an acceptable level, around 40dBC a meter away as I recall.
The NU fans may be slightly noisier than the NX fans.
Thanx weltersys
While I want to use these drivers I'm going to do something else with the amps question now having crunched some dollars and compared to current incomes it makes more sense to use the party amps I have and try and sell the old school Alpine and Kicker for whatever I can get or try and use all of these spare drivers in one tower.
I'll drop the idea of using these with the other set of party speakers I'm bodging up now
My party rack is actually OK and far too much for home use but then you don't have to turn things up to 11
I really appreciate you help advice and expertise
While I want to use these drivers I'm going to do something else with the amps question now having crunched some dollars and compared to current incomes it makes more sense to use the party amps I have and try and sell the old school Alpine and Kicker for whatever I can get or try and use all of these spare drivers in one tower.
I'll drop the idea of using these with the other set of party speakers I'm bodging up now
My party rack is actually OK and far too much for home use but then you don't have to turn things up to 11
I really appreciate you help advice and expertise
Attachments
Pix of the cheap drivers FYI
Used to be readilly available for about $60- each but the HT subs they came in were only $99- each on sale and at one stage [ before WIFE] I had seven subs distributed around the room. Like all cheap Chinese amps when they died the the amps were not worth repairing . So how many of these to equal a single 18" at 1190cm<2 ?
4 * 314 come close doesn't it?
Used to be readilly available for about $60- each but the HT subs they came in were only $99- each on sale and at one stage [ before WIFE] I had seven subs distributed around the room. Like all cheap Chinese amps when they died the the amps were not worth repairing . So how many of these to equal a single 18" at 1190cm<2 ?
4 * 314 come close doesn't it?
