Hello there,
When the Gain Card was announced and it is still around for about $3.5k at Sakura Systems. I made a 3876 with a 'better' power supply four 10k uf caps etc. I thought it was wonderful. But as you do I bought a 3116 class D for a fiver goodness gracious! I could scarcely believe it. Bit shrieky at the top end though.
Going back to the Gain Card I found Mick Feuerbacher's site and this.
R1 10k log pot
Rf 22k 0.25W carbon
Rg 680R 0.35W metalfilm
Rm 10k 0.35 W metalfilm
Cs 2200 uF and 100 nF in parallel
Connect pins 1 and 5
No need at all for a PCB point to point is much easier.
The power supply is a toroid and some diodes nothing else. I'd got a couple of 3886's and made the above. This of course is just my opinion the 3876 with the large caps is warm and pleasant in other words nice. On the other hand Mick's 3886 is fast, detailed and analytical.
I've listened to it for about five years now it's quite simply the best amp I've ever made. I understand now that if you like the detailed etc then Mr Kimura's Gain Card is an Ace amp. There are going to be lots of detractors following this post, may I humbly and with great respect say please make one for your self.
Cheers - J
When the Gain Card was announced and it is still around for about $3.5k at Sakura Systems. I made a 3876 with a 'better' power supply four 10k uf caps etc. I thought it was wonderful. But as you do I bought a 3116 class D for a fiver goodness gracious! I could scarcely believe it. Bit shrieky at the top end though.
Going back to the Gain Card I found Mick Feuerbacher's site and this.
R1 10k log pot
Rf 22k 0.25W carbon
Rg 680R 0.35W metalfilm
Rm 10k 0.35 W metalfilm
Cs 2200 uF and 100 nF in parallel
Connect pins 1 and 5
No need at all for a PCB point to point is much easier.
The power supply is a toroid and some diodes nothing else. I'd got a couple of 3886's and made the above. This of course is just my opinion the 3876 with the large caps is warm and pleasant in other words nice. On the other hand Mick's 3886 is fast, detailed and analytical.
I've listened to it for about five years now it's quite simply the best amp I've ever made. I understand now that if you like the detailed etc then Mr Kimura's Gain Card is an Ace amp. There are going to be lots of detractors following this post, may I humbly and with great respect say please make one for your self.
Cheers - J
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I did. About 20 years ago. Do yourself a favour and make a decent classA amp, pretty much any from Mr. Nelson.
Working out the actual wattage at waking the dead volume used by my FH3's it's 1/2 a Watt which from the 3886 is in Class A. As Mr Nelson quite rightly states, "It's the first watt that counts". Most of us listen to 1/8 - 1/2 Watt but few bother to work out the SPL from the db rating and think Watts is the be all and end all of everything. See the snake oil thread if it's still on here.
[edit] The fall off is also another hole to fall down, use a db meter in your room (and not an anechoic one or a huge field with no wind) and you will find there is very little fall off because of the reflections from the walls. The Android db meter is very good and will sample down to 0.1 of a second.
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I agree, very little power is actually needed. You can read about it on my blog.
But promoting 20 years old circuit copied from original application sheet seems kinda lame.
Inverted with tube (or jfet) buffer sounds way better. Current drive can sound special, when proper speakers are used. And nested with low distortion opamp will beat the application sheet circuit in every parameter.
ClassAB biased is not the same as real ClassA.
Otherwise i have no idea what your [edit] is about.
But promoting 20 years old circuit copied from original application sheet seems kinda lame.
Inverted with tube (or jfet) buffer sounds way better. Current drive can sound special, when proper speakers are used. And nested with low distortion opamp will beat the application sheet circuit in every parameter.
ClassAB biased is not the same as real ClassA.
Otherwise i have no idea what your [edit] is about.
After posting the above I emailed Mick and received a reply in an hour or so. He still uses this amplifier and has done so since 2007 he sees no reason to change. The amp drives a pair of Audio Physic Tempo IIIi speakers.
Cheers - J
Cheers - J
Its only 15 years ago that I posted this design. And its not a copy from an application sheet, I actually made it myself 😉
Yes, I still use it, still love it, and did not build any other amp ever after.
You do want a bypass capacitor on the MUTE pin. Typically 100 uF is used. It can be a low voltage (6.3 V) type.
I'd also bypass with more than a single electrolytic cap if you want to avoid instability. You can read more here: https://neurochrome.com/pages/supply-decoupling
If you treat it right, the LM3886 can really sing.
Tom
I'd also bypass with more than a single electrolytic cap if you want to avoid instability. You can read more here: https://neurochrome.com/pages/supply-decoupling
If you treat it right, the LM3886 can really sing.
Tom
Hello Tom,
Many thanks for your reply very illuminating it is too.
I would point out first that I and Mick have been listening to the above for a combined total of 20 years.
May I ask if your comments are backed by some personal and properly done comparisons or have you just accepted someone else's word for them?
In my experience few people know how to do a proper and valid comparison. I will explain; take two amps and use a dummy load on one channel of each, feed the live channel to separate speakers, so what you have is two mono speakers driven by the two amplifiers. Arrange a wired double pole double throw switch so that you can switch between the inputs of both amps instantly and from a listening position. Changing over wires from one amp to another and then sitting down to listen is a complete waste of time.
I did this between the 3876 and the 3886, at the first listening session I did not notice any difference and did not expect to. But as the days progressed doing it every day for about an hour I began to notice that the 3876 (with its large capacitance power supply) was warm and pleasant and the 3886 was fast, detailed and analytical. After a week of it I thought the 3886 to be the better of the two, I must emphasise that the differences are very small but once heard a decision becomes inevitable.
The history of the Gain Clone is riddled with additions, Mick went the other way and remove the unnecessary. May I suggest with great respect that you make one and then do then do a proper comparison.
Kind regards - J
Many thanks for your reply very illuminating it is too.
I would point out first that I and Mick have been listening to the above for a combined total of 20 years.
May I ask if your comments are backed by some personal and properly done comparisons or have you just accepted someone else's word for them?
In my experience few people know how to do a proper and valid comparison. I will explain; take two amps and use a dummy load on one channel of each, feed the live channel to separate speakers, so what you have is two mono speakers driven by the two amplifiers. Arrange a wired double pole double throw switch so that you can switch between the inputs of both amps instantly and from a listening position. Changing over wires from one amp to another and then sitting down to listen is a complete waste of time.
I did this between the 3876 and the 3886, at the first listening session I did not notice any difference and did not expect to. But as the days progressed doing it every day for about an hour I began to notice that the 3876 (with its large capacitance power supply) was warm and pleasant and the 3886 was fast, detailed and analytical. After a week of it I thought the 3886 to be the better of the two, I must emphasise that the differences are very small but once heard a decision becomes inevitable.
The history of the Gain Clone is riddled with additions, Mick went the other way and remove the unnecessary. May I suggest with great respect that you make one and then do then do a proper comparison.
Kind regards - J
Dear Jan,
In response to you one sentence do I hope you don't mind if I post the work of Mr Kimura and the comments of Mr Teramura from the this page: https://www.sakurasystems.com/about.html
From the below you will be able to ascertain that I have indeed read every page of the Neurochrome website
"While Kimura was busy completing his (CD) transport design, another frustrated man visited his workshop to have a listen on the prototype. His name was Koji Teramura, a long-time hotheaded audiophile and an owner of a local retail dealer.
Teramura was frustrated, because he was not getting what he expects from audio through so-called high end audio components.
In one of his writings a couple of years ago, he states;
"When I was asked what I expect most from high-end audio, the answer always seemed to contradict with what I find in those brand name, pricey components. It seems that the current high-end market grew up to this day by chasing the purity of the sound. In the process, by selecting and eliminating all impurities as much as possible, it reached to the point where the resulted sound lost all the infinite tentacles they originally had and became a very static presentation of the sound in an unrealistic virtual space.
I must say that those lost tentacles were the binding agents between each sound to make it into music and communicate it to the listener. I call these tentacles that make the sound into music, 'activity' of the sound. Without this 'activity', the sound will never be able to communicate with anybody and, I am afraid, the high-end audio's last stop will be an assassination of music by the purity of sound, totally isolating the listener from his/her music. I am not a pessimist nor a type who just reminisce good old days, but this is exactly how the state of current high-end audio appears to me. We need a paradigm shift from this sound purism to sound 'activism' to revitalize our beloved world of audio."
The transport itself was impressive, but what attracted Teramura's attention most was an amplifier Kimura was using as a reference. It was a tiny solid state device, which did not sound like a solid state at all. This later turned out to be the beginning of the development of Model 4706 GAINCARD.
The sound Teramura heard that day was enough to convince him that something new was happening. He asked for the partnership right at the spot, and the wheels started rolling."
Kind regards - J
In response to you one sentence do I hope you don't mind if I post the work of Mr Kimura and the comments of Mr Teramura from the this page: https://www.sakurasystems.com/about.html
From the below you will be able to ascertain that I have indeed read every page of the Neurochrome website
"While Kimura was busy completing his (CD) transport design, another frustrated man visited his workshop to have a listen on the prototype. His name was Koji Teramura, a long-time hotheaded audiophile and an owner of a local retail dealer.
Teramura was frustrated, because he was not getting what he expects from audio through so-called high end audio components.
In one of his writings a couple of years ago, he states;
"When I was asked what I expect most from high-end audio, the answer always seemed to contradict with what I find in those brand name, pricey components. It seems that the current high-end market grew up to this day by chasing the purity of the sound. In the process, by selecting and eliminating all impurities as much as possible, it reached to the point where the resulted sound lost all the infinite tentacles they originally had and became a very static presentation of the sound in an unrealistic virtual space.
I must say that those lost tentacles were the binding agents between each sound to make it into music and communicate it to the listener. I call these tentacles that make the sound into music, 'activity' of the sound. Without this 'activity', the sound will never be able to communicate with anybody and, I am afraid, the high-end audio's last stop will be an assassination of music by the purity of sound, totally isolating the listener from his/her music. I am not a pessimist nor a type who just reminisce good old days, but this is exactly how the state of current high-end audio appears to me. We need a paradigm shift from this sound purism to sound 'activism' to revitalize our beloved world of audio."
The transport itself was impressive, but what attracted Teramura's attention most was an amplifier Kimura was using as a reference. It was a tiny solid state device, which did not sound like a solid state at all. This later turned out to be the beginning of the development of Model 4706 GAINCARD.
The sound Teramura heard that day was enough to convince him that something new was happening. He asked for the partnership right at the spot, and the wheels started rolling."
Kind regards - J
Hello J,
If you indeed are familiar with the contents of the Neurochrome website, then I do not understand your remark '... May I ask if your comments are backed by some personal and properly done comparisons or have you just accepted someone else's word for them?...'
I have no idea what the point is of your story, unfortunately.
Jan
If you indeed are familiar with the contents of the Neurochrome website, then I do not understand your remark '... May I ask if your comments are backed by some personal and properly done comparisons or have you just accepted someone else's word for them?...'
I have no idea what the point is of your story, unfortunately.
Jan
Dear Jan,
Your last post would only result in the usual circular comment chase and repeats that pervades this site.
What I intend to do now is to use blogger to create a web site, put the above on it including the comments. It seems to me that the original concept of the Gain Card has not only been misinterpreted but is largely forgotten through being buried under piles of so called improvements.
I'll post the link here when I have completed it.
My regards to you - J
Your last post would only result in the usual circular comment chase and repeats that pervades this site.
What I intend to do now is to use blogger to create a web site, put the above on it including the comments. It seems to me that the original concept of the Gain Card has not only been misinterpreted but is largely forgotten through being buried under piles of so called improvements.
I'll post the link here when I have completed it.
My regards to you - J
Hello there,
Here is the site I promised above, aimed at those who have not got a lot of money but would like to be able to make their own very simple but superb amplifier from scratch. There is nothing quite like the feeling of achievement from doing this. All you need is a soldering iron and some common sense.
https://minimalgainclone.blogspot.com/
Blogger with the some HTML help can easily be turned into a website, costs nothing, and if you want a domain name one can be bought from Google for a tenner, nothing more to pay!
Cheers - J
Here is the site I promised above, aimed at those who have not got a lot of money but would like to be able to make their own very simple but superb amplifier from scratch. There is nothing quite like the feeling of achievement from doing this. All you need is a soldering iron and some common sense.
https://minimalgainclone.blogspot.com/
Blogger with the some HTML help can easily be turned into a website, costs nothing, and if you want a domain name one can be bought from Google for a tenner, nothing more to pay!
Cheers - J
Dear Georg,
May I point you to this page;
https://www.electronics-tutorials.w...ove, the,amplifier for larger current outputs.
And I quote from it;
One way to produce an amplifier with the high efficiency output of the Class B configuration along with the low distortion of the Class A configuration is to create an amplifier circuit which is a combination of the previous two classes resulting in a new type of amplifier circuit called a Class AB Amplifier.
Then the Class AB amplifier output stage combines the advantages of the Class A amplifier and the Class B amplifier while minimising the problems of low efficiency and distortion associated with them.
As we said above, the Class AB Amplifier is a combination of Classes A and B in that for small power outputs the amplifier operates as a class A amplifier but changes to a class B amplifier for larger current outputs. This action is achieved by pre-biasing the two transistors in the amplifiers output stage.
Cheers - J
May I point you to this page;
https://www.electronics-tutorials.w...ove, the,amplifier for larger current outputs.
And I quote from it;
One way to produce an amplifier with the high efficiency output of the Class B configuration along with the low distortion of the Class A configuration is to create an amplifier circuit which is a combination of the previous two classes resulting in a new type of amplifier circuit called a Class AB Amplifier.
Then the Class AB amplifier output stage combines the advantages of the Class A amplifier and the Class B amplifier while minimising the problems of low efficiency and distortion associated with them.
As we said above, the Class AB Amplifier is a combination of Classes A and B in that for small power outputs the amplifier operates as a class A amplifier but changes to a class B amplifier for larger current outputs. This action is achieved by pre-biasing the two transistors in the amplifiers output stage.
Cheers - J
This is common knowledge since, ohh, halfway last century?
The point is that the 3886 does not work in class A for the first watt.
You sidestepped that and changed the subject, possibly because you do not know how to calculate that class A region.
That's fine, but please don't change the subject or think we're stupid.
Jan
The point is that the 3886 does not work in class A for the first watt.
You sidestepped that and changed the subject, possibly because you do not know how to calculate that class A region.
That's fine, but please don't change the subject or think we're stupid.
Jan
WTF?????
A Forum Member builds an amp, posts that HE likes it and HE is so happy with it that HE has not built another since and a pack of wolves JUMP at his throat to tear him to bits?
Suggesting anything COMPLETELY UNSOLICITED from Class A amps to "this is common knowledge?"
Cool off or you´ll get a coronary.
A Forum Member builds an amp, posts that HE likes it and HE is so happy with it that HE has not built another since and a pack of wolves JUMP at his throat to tear him to bits?
Suggesting anything COMPLETELY UNSOLICITED from Class A amps to "this is common knowledge?"
Cool off or you´ll get a coronary.
He said 3886 has 1st W in class A. Someone pointed out this is not correct. He then quotes Def of class A, which is not the point. I pointed that out. Seems logical and ot for me. YMMV of course.
Hello there,
My website stats show how a META Tagged site begins to work immediately even before the first 24 hours have elapsed
United Kingdom 130
India 43
Germany 21
France 5
United States 5
Thailand 3
Denmark 2
Slovenia 2
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And not all from here 23 from Google searches, Good 'ole Blogger
Cheers - J
My website stats show how a META Tagged site begins to work immediately even before the first 24 hours have elapsed
United Kingdom 130
India 43
Germany 21
France 5
United States 5
Thailand 3
Denmark 2
Slovenia 2
Turkey 2
And not all from here 23 from Google searches, Good 'ole Blogger
Cheers - J
So you're selling SEO services now? I'm confused...
If you would rather base your design choices on your "20 years of combined experience" or how many veils were lifted that's your choice.
Tom
As Jan points out, I suggest that you spend some time reading the Taming the LM3886 guide. That's all my original work. You can also see the various products I offer - of my own design - that are based on the LM3886. I base my claims on measurements and, for my recommendations regarding decoupling, on simulation and a thorough understanding of the issue of decoupling. I have personally measured higher THD when the mute cap is omitted. I've personally measured parasitic oscillations from an LM3886 that was operated with too little decoupling capacitor (4-5 uF instead of the recommended 10 uF + 100 nF).
If you would rather base your design choices on your "20 years of combined experience" or how many veils were lifted that's your choice.
Tom