From my own experience with the original 12P* (as opposed to 12PW), you could be chasing your tail trying to use it as a “bass” driver. I think that Mark's targeting for the combination of widest bandwidth and highest overall sensitivity resulted in a modest, but noticeable compromise in bass extension- certainly either when compared to either of the A10s, or when used in a smaller enclosure.
*Jeff’s fridge sized Super Pensils, and IINM one of Planet10’s standmounted designs(?)
*Jeff’s fridge sized Super Pensils, and IINM one of Planet10’s standmounted designs(?)
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i use 10M gen 3 in a ported enclosure for years and it's a very good speaker with decent, but a bit vague bass. Half a year ago i build a pair of subs with an 10" Scanspeak driver tuned to about 25Hz with a passive 1st order crossover at 180Hz and this is a magical setup. I power it with an Prima Luna Prologue 4 (35w PP amp with EL34 powertubes).
I would also go for a Alpair 10, and i like the metal way more than the paper one. I've build copies of the tops with the 10P for a friend (who tought it would be better), but had to change them to 10M after halve a year because he liked them also more. I will redo my tops but more fit to the sub (lower and wider and front ported, but the same volume).
I would also go for a Alpair 10, and i like the metal way more than the paper one. I've build copies of the tops with the 10P for a friend (who tought it would be better), but had to change them to 10M after halve a year because he liked them also more. I will redo my tops but more fit to the sub (lower and wider and front ported, but the same volume).
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Hi, all.
I'm back again
.
The Pensil cabinet (for 10P's) is on order from my joiner. But - reading this thread: 10p Monitors? - I got a little bit confused. Can CGR be better???
Short question: which is better for stuffing? Carded wool or polyfill? Wool is better? Required quantity?
THX in advance!
I'm back again
.The Pensil cabinet (for 10P's) is on order from my joiner. But - reading this thread: 10p Monitors? - I got a little bit confused
. Can CGR be better???Short question: which is better for stuffing? Carded wool or polyfill? Wool is better? Required quantity?
THX in advance!
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If you’ve already committed materials and cash to the Pensils, I’d try to avoid second guessing yourself - that’s a rabbit hole the exploration of which will only lead to the lightening of your wallet, and a lot of empty boxes.
I think I’m on record as generally recommending floorstanding designs over stand-mount / “monitor” sizes, except for desktop/very nearfield, or mini surround channels in a small room HT system.
Stuffing type and quantities should normally be included in design specs - but make allowances in construction for access to adjust to suit each particular system - particularly on floorstanders. For example, all of Scott’s Pensil designs should include the notes to mount rear panel on gasketed cleats for such adjustments. I’ve always used either Acousti-Stuff, or genetic polyfill.
I think I’m on record as generally recommending floorstanding designs over stand-mount / “monitor” sizes, except for desktop/very nearfield, or mini surround channels in a small room HT system.
Stuffing type and quantities should normally be included in design specs - but make allowances in construction for access to adjust to suit each particular system - particularly on floorstanders. For example, all of Scott’s Pensil designs should include the notes to mount rear panel on gasketed cleats for such adjustments. I’ve always used either Acousti-Stuff, or genetic polyfill.
Only for the 12s.
Re damping materials, there is nothing magical about any of them. They all have slightly different properties at different frequencies, but few dramatic differences per se. Since properly treated (don't even think about using untreated) long-hair wool is usually expensive and offers little real benefits over hollow-fibre pillow stuffing / dacron, I would stick with the latter, which is the 'default' as it's inexpensive, works and is readily available. Remember that one of the fundamental objectives of the pensil design is that they are easily adjustable / tunable to a given set of requirements or preferences via adjusting the damping density, so please do not just assume the default is proscriptive: it isn't, it's just the alignment baseline, and it is assumed people will adapt to their particular situation. Adjust away.
Re damping materials, there is nothing magical about any of them. They all have slightly different properties at different frequencies, but few dramatic differences per se. Since properly treated (don't even think about using untreated) long-hair wool is usually expensive and offers little real benefits over hollow-fibre pillow stuffing / dacron, I would stick with the latter, which is the 'default' as it's inexpensive, works and is readily available. Remember that one of the fundamental objectives of the pensil design
I think everyone just throws those plastic rings in the bin!
Just remember these older Alpair's take for-ever to run in (100Hrs).
They sound really terrible when they are new. But warm up quick, i've heard some say that they continue to improve up to about 500hrs, but I would take that with a grain of salt.
We now plug them into the amp, and leave them in the box to bounce up and down a little for a few days before putting them into a cabinet. That way you're not disappointed.
Just remember these older Alpair's take for-ever to run in (100Hrs).
They sound really terrible when they are new. But warm up quick, i've heard some say that they continue to improve up to about 500hrs, but I would take that with a grain of salt.
We now plug them into the amp, and leave them in the box to bounce up and down a little for a few days before putting them into a cabinet. That way you're not disappointed.
One that conducts electricity is good.
Humour aside, technically none & hard-wire. Assuming you're like the rest of us, that's not very practical. That being the case, wire-wrap is next best, with screw-down lugs lathered with copper grease the best removable option. For some reason nobody ever believes that, since wire-wrap and screw-lugs were used for decades in industrial and military applications rather more demanding than audio, so therefore, since it's based on proper engineering principles, it cannot possibly be any good for hi-fi. Sigh.
Back to ye tedious binding posts. Which for most applications, especially in 'normal' low sensitivity applications are good enough. Dave likes some inexpensive low-mass terminal cups (following the principle of reducing the amount of unnecessary brass & assorted junk) which work well. I don't like terminal cups myself, but the low-mass approach is sound providing you get a quality connection. Any quality post will do TBH; Cardas's copper ones are probably as good as any, but there are plenty of others. I wouldn't spend a fortune.
Humour aside, technically none & hard-wire. Assuming you're like the rest of us, that's not very practical. That being the case, wire-wrap is next best, with screw-down lugs lathered with copper grease the best removable option. For some reason nobody ever believes that, since wire-wrap and screw-lugs were used for decades in industrial and military applications rather more demanding than audio, so therefore, since it's based on proper engineering principles, it cannot possibly be any good for hi-fi. Sigh.
Back to ye tedious binding posts. Which for most applications, especially in 'normal' low sensitivity applications are good enough. Dave likes some inexpensive low-mass terminal cups (following the principle of reducing the amount of unnecessary brass & assorted junk) which work well. I don't like terminal cups myself, but the low-mass approach is sound providing you get a quality connection. Any quality post will do TBH; Cardas's copper ones are probably as good as any, but there are plenty of others. I wouldn't spend a fortune.
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SpeedyG,
Example of something with not too much mass:
Parts Express Gold Plated Banana 5-Way Speaker Wire Binding Post Terminal
and this too:
Round Speaker Terminal Cup 2-15/16" Gold Banana Binding Post
I find the round one easier to install as it involves using the hole saw to do a circular cutout only.
Example of something with not too much mass:
Parts Express Gold Plated Banana 5-Way Speaker Wire Binding Post Terminal
and this too:
Round Speaker Terminal Cup 2-15/16" Gold Banana Binding Post
I find the round one easier to install as it involves using the hole saw to do a circular cutout only.
I second Zia's recommendation for the PE five-way posts...I've been using these for a long time; they're cheap, reliable, low mass and easier for my fingers to turn as they aren't tightly bordered by cup rings.
From my experience, I've found it far easier to drill a couple 1/4" holes 3/4" apart for the five ways than using a router or hole cutter to make the larger hole required by the cups.
...as an aside, I still don't get why they're called "five way" terminals as I can only think of three ways to connect: banana plug, bare wire or lug...
From my experience, I've found it far easier to drill a couple 1/4" holes 3/4" apart for the five ways than using a router or hole cutter to make the larger hole required by the cups.
...as an aside, I still don't get why they're called "five way" terminals as I can only think of three ways to connect: banana plug, bare wire or lug...
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They are a bitch to solder, i don’t like them. The WBT nextGen ones, or the newest Eichmann (ETI) are amounst the best price no object posts. The Cardas are too fat for industry standard 3/4” spacing, i haven’t tried the newest Eichmanns.
Zia, the 1st of those is good (same posts as the 2” cups we use have), the solid gold ones i would avoid (the larger cup is something we like to avoid as well).
Small removable cups are good if 2 of the goals are to be able to easiy get at the solder side (to change wire) and the terminals are flush or better with the back panel so that they cannot be easily damaged in the case of an accident.
dave
The soldering with Cardas can be a pain, I agree. Here in the EU there are no industry standards for binding post spacing that I've encountered; 19mm is relatively common but by no means fixed; one option that has been quite popular for custom builds actually has a 60mm centre-to-centre spacing. Not a favourite of mine to be honest, but to each their own. Most of the twin-lead wire people use in this neck of the woods doesn't tend to be limited to a fixed terminal spacing so I haven't thought about it as much as I suppose I should. 
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