I want to replace an iPhone 5s that does a good job of recording far-field sounds with its MEMS mic and +10.00 mic gain. It is probably doing AGC and noise cancellation.
I could get a Zoom H5 with a Clippy XLR ECM mic (Primo EM272 capsule) using phantom power to provide 8v to the mic or the Clippy ECM mic (same capsule), but only 2.5v from the mic/line input port of the H5.
Or I could get either of those mics, but use a single-board computer connected via USB to a Scarlett Solo or RODE AI-1 audio interface that connects to the mic via XLR or instrument port.
So far the budget portable recorders don't provide the Clippy capsules with enough power via the mic/line input port (Zoom H1n 2.5v, Sony PCM-A10 3v).
The Zoom H1n with onboard mics is not good enough to replace the iPhone: low audio levels (+39dB mic input gain) and noisy XY mics.
I could get a Zoom H5 with a Clippy XLR ECM mic (Primo EM272 capsule) using phantom power to provide 8v to the mic or the Clippy ECM mic (same capsule), but only 2.5v from the mic/line input port of the H5.
Or I could get either of those mics, but use a single-board computer connected via USB to a Scarlett Solo or RODE AI-1 audio interface that connects to the mic via XLR or instrument port.
So far the budget portable recorders don't provide the Clippy capsules with enough power via the mic/line input port (Zoom H1n 2.5v, Sony PCM-A10 3v).
The Zoom H1n with onboard mics is not good enough to replace the iPhone: low audio levels (+39dB mic input gain) and noisy XY mics.
Last edited:
Something to watch out for with digital recorders. The specs include bit depth and sample rate, but no numbers that relate to actual audio performance, like frequency response, signal/noise, or distortion. Sometimes that's because they've been designed without a clean power supply for the analog stages, so your recordings will be marred by low level digital whines or noises related to activities like accessing the display or memory card.
Zoom H5: no performance numbers
H5 | ZOOM
Tascam DR-05X provides freq response, distortion, noise:
DR-05X | SPECIFICATIONS | TASCAM - United States
Zoom H5: no performance numbers
H5 | ZOOM
Tascam DR-05X provides freq response, distortion, noise:
DR-05X | SPECIFICATIONS | TASCAM - United States
Like everything else, companies are using cheap components.
DONT BUY THIS AUDIO RECORDER
DONT BUY THIS AUDIO RECORDER - YouTube
This is why you won't buy a Tascam DR-05X audio recorder
This is why you won't buy a Tascam DR-05X audio recorder - YouTube
It seems the Raspberry Pi can power audio interfaces comfortably without using a powered hub.
I bought the Tascam DR-05X and the signal from the onboard mics was very low with mic gain at max. And like the Zoom H1n, which I also bought, if you amplify the audio post the hiss from the onboard mics is really bad.
I couldn't believe that an iPhone 5s from 2013 with the right app can do what I can't do with portable recorders in 2021. Sure if I buy a Sound Devices recorder and a expensive mic I should be able to get reasonable audio levels.
The other issue is the PiP power, it is only 2.5-3v so the only other option to make the mic more sensitive is to use the bulkier XLR connector and phantom power.
It shouldn't be so hard.
DONT BUY THIS AUDIO RECORDER
DONT BUY THIS AUDIO RECORDER - YouTube
This is why you won't buy a Tascam DR-05X audio recorder
This is why you won't buy a Tascam DR-05X audio recorder - YouTube
It seems the Raspberry Pi can power audio interfaces comfortably without using a powered hub.
I bought the Tascam DR-05X and the signal from the onboard mics was very low with mic gain at max. And like the Zoom H1n, which I also bought, if you amplify the audio post the hiss from the onboard mics is really bad.
I couldn't believe that an iPhone 5s from 2013 with the right app can do what I can't do with portable recorders in 2021. Sure if I buy a Sound Devices recorder and a expensive mic I should be able to get reasonable audio levels.
The other issue is the PiP power, it is only 2.5-3v so the only other option to make the mic more sensitive is to use the bulkier XLR connector and phantom power.
It shouldn't be so hard.
I use PUI HD mic capsules with a Zoom and a Tascam on 2.5V plug in power. Noise is not a problem. I've also used Panasonic and Primo without noise problems on very quiet ambient recordings. They don't need 5V or phantom power. Electret capsules are not the world's low noise mics, but they do OK.
If you are recording very faint sounds, wouldn't directional capsule be better for you? An omni mic will mic up everything from every direction. Seems like you would want a hyper or super cardioid mic that you can point at the sound source.
If you are recording very faint sounds, wouldn't directional capsule be better for you? An omni mic will mic up everything from every direction. Seems like you would want a hyper or super cardioid mic that you can point at the sound source.
The iPhone 5s has a bottom MEMS mic (Knowles). Ideally, a lower SNR has better far-field performance.
For practical reasons, I'm considering the Primo EM272 capsule (rated 5v, EM172 recommended range 3-10v).
Because there are sounds closer to the phone's mic the iPhone must be doing AGC and noise cancellation: target sounds audio levels are good (no post processing).
The target sounds are not faint, but the onboard mic(s) and preamps of low budget recorders produce low audio levels and noise.
The iPhone's mic is looking outwards, no noise from the back or sides, and the acoustics actually bring those target sounds closer, is just that the H1n without external mics is not an option.
The idea of going with a XLR connector is to have an option in case the sensitivity of the Primo capsule is not enough or the noise of the preamps is less of an issue, but still an issue.
And since I returned the recorder can consider an external mic connected via an audio interface to a programmable SBC (less noise, more mic gain, phantom power, auto recordings).
I could take the chance and try a more portable Zoom H5, which has phantom power and 52db input gain.
In the end, the performance of any setup should be equal or better than an iPhone 5s, even if not as portable.
For practical reasons, I'm considering the Primo EM272 capsule (rated 5v, EM172 recommended range 3-10v).
Because there are sounds closer to the phone's mic the iPhone must be doing AGC and noise cancellation: target sounds audio levels are good (no post processing).
The target sounds are not faint, but the onboard mic(s) and preamps of low budget recorders produce low audio levels and noise.
The iPhone's mic is looking outwards, no noise from the back or sides, and the acoustics actually bring those target sounds closer, is just that the H1n without external mics is not an option.
The idea of going with a XLR connector is to have an option in case the sensitivity of the Primo capsule is not enough or the noise of the preamps is less of an issue, but still an issue.
And since I returned the recorder can consider an external mic connected via an audio interface to a programmable SBC (less noise, more mic gain, phantom power, auto recordings).
I could take the chance and try a more portable Zoom H5, which has phantom power and 52db input gain.
In the end, the performance of any setup should be equal or better than an iPhone 5s, even if not as portable.
The PUI audio capsules are actually quite good regarding their noise floor, especially the AOM-5024L-HD-R microphone capsule. It has an equivalent acoustical noise level of 14 dB(A), my professional AKG C900 stage microphones have an equivalent acoustical noise level of 17.5 dB(A), and a Sennheiser MD21 reporter microphone has an equivalent acoustical noise level of about 15 dB(A). The AOM-5024L-HD-R large signal performance isn't even close to that of professional microphones, though.
Edit: the same holds for the Primo EM272. Many other electret microphone capsules are a lot worse.
Edit: the same holds for the Primo EM272. Many other electret microphone capsules are a lot worse.
Last edited:
Thanks for the responses. I wish I had more experience or equipment to figure out what works (and not waste $).
A Primo EM272 capsule mic can be $60 (UK) or more. Do you know of a mic with a AOM-5204L-HD-R capsule at a similar price?
I know IK Multimedia is making MEMS microphones for different systems, but I have no idea if they would work for far-field recording (gain, SNR, etc).
Is not like manufacturers make it easy for consumers to compare products (dangus).
A Primo EM272 capsule mic can be $60 (UK) or more. Do you know of a mic with a AOM-5204L-HD-R capsule at a similar price?
I know IK Multimedia is making MEMS microphones for different systems, but I have no idea if they would work for far-field recording (gain, SNR, etc).
Is not like manufacturers make it easy for consumers to compare products (dangus).
Yes, smart phones use a lot of rather good noise canceling. If they didn't, they would not be very useful (as telephones).
I'm still not sure why you are interested in omni directional mics. What are you trying to record?
I'm still not sure why you are interested in omni directional mics. What are you trying to record?
The AOM-5024L-HD-R capsules themselves cost $3.16 at Digi-Key, but I haven't a clue in what microphones they are used. In any case, the EM272 has precisely the same noise spec as the AOM-5024L-HD-R, so also remarkably good for a simple electret capsule.
The mic doesn't have to be omni, but low noise mics like those based on the Primo EM272 capsule are omnidirectional (and cheaper).
The iPhone's is omni and does the job without having to find another placement for it (limited). It is easier to place the phone on a window looking outside, protected from the weather (or theft).
There are other sounds that are closer and in front of the mic. I'm recording frog calls.
There's a project called Solo that uses a Raspberry Pi and a Creative Play 3! USB sound card with a Primo EM272 omni capsule, but the audio levels were very low.
Yes, eventually, I'll make my own mics ($), but for now want a setup that works (without battery constraints). I can learn and tinker with it later. There's an advantage to using off-the-shelf components.
All I've used is a phone and a couple of budget portable recorders, so don't have much to compare to.
The iPhone's is omni and does the job without having to find another placement for it (limited). It is easier to place the phone on a window looking outside, protected from the weather (or theft).
There are other sounds that are closer and in front of the mic. I'm recording frog calls.
There's a project called Solo that uses a Raspberry Pi and a Creative Play 3! USB sound card with a Primo EM272 omni capsule, but the audio levels were very low.
Yes, eventually, I'll make my own mics ($), but for now want a setup that works (without battery constraints). I can learn and tinker with it later. There's an advantage to using off-the-shelf components.
All I've used is a phone and a couple of budget portable recorders, so don't have much to compare to.
I have some frog recordings somewhere that were done last August with PUI capsules in my ears, Zoom recorder. I'll find them and post a link for you to hear if the quality is good enough for you.
Thanks, Pano.
What audio repair software is recommend to clean audio files?
iZotope RX, ERA Bundle, SpectraLayers, Cedar Studio, ..
What audio repair software is recommend to clean audio files?
iZotope RX, ERA Bundle, SpectraLayers, Cedar Studio, ..
You may or may not be interested in this link; it is about recording bird and frog sounds, but not portable.
Need Advice for a Weird Project
Need Advice for a Weird Project
Here are some recordings made with PUI in-ear microphones and a Zoom H4n recorder on the 3.5mm input. Originally 48K/24 bit, these have been leveled to -30dB LUFS and high passed at 40Hz before saving as MP3. Track gain was about +2dB on these.
There may be too much insect and wind/rain noise here for you, but the noises you hear are acoustic sounds, not electrical.
In ear mic demo. Nature sounds by del Mar | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I have a couple of prototypes of these left over, if you are interested.
There may be too much insect and wind/rain noise here for you, but the noises you hear are acoustic sounds, not electrical.
In ear mic demo. Nature sounds by del Mar | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I have a couple of prototypes of these left over, if you are interested.
I payed attention to the secondary sound from 0:47 onwards because that's what I would be trying to record.
How far from the main source were the mics?
How far from the main source were the mics?
The frog recording? I was standing about 4 meters from the frog on the ground. If I got any closer, he stopped singing.
Are TRS(/TS) combo jacks on an audio interface powered?
The TRS port is supposed to be balanced, unlike PIP unbalanced ports, but the connector is the same as a 1/4" stereo plug, which is via an adapter the same as the stereo mini plug of microphones requiring PiP (mono capsule, but same signal on both channels).
In other words, to use mics with TRS/stereo plugs that require PIP you need a portable recorder or camera.
The TRS port is supposed to be balanced, unlike PIP unbalanced ports, but the connector is the same as a 1/4" stereo plug, which is via an adapter the same as the stereo mini plug of microphones requiring PiP (mono capsule, but same signal on both channels).
In other words, to use mics with TRS/stereo plugs that require PIP you need a portable recorder or camera.
I don't think that plug in power comes in anything buy 3.5mm 1/8 inch. It can also be found on TRRS plugs for stereo headphones with mic.
Yes you usually find PIP on camcorders, cameras and portable recorders. You can make your own power supply with 2 batteries a cap and a resistor if you need to.
Yes you usually find PIP on camcorders, cameras and portable recorders. You can make your own power supply with 2 batteries a cap and a resistor if you need to.