This is where we start to measure, "quantify", our qualitative perceptions and interpretations of the question: "how does it sound". It would be exceptional if we could start to model "the sound" of electronic components, in simulation, allowing for an pseudo-accurate audible representation of the waveform(s) our circuit is producing.
Hmmm... I haven't got a good answer to that one at the moment 🙂
(mainly because in my experience, chasing down numbers and so on doesn't relate to sonic improvements. I can tell more by the topology of a design as to whether it holds promise for audio... or at least that it could deliver the type of presentation I like)
Yours is rather like the curates egg... good in parts. The quasi complementary output stage can be a big plus sonically. It could be an interesting exercise to rehash the output stage to use FET's (laterals of course).
The LTP (long tailed pair) differential input stage is pretty basic (and I'm not a fan of LTP input stages as it happens... having owned several commercial designs, and built many diy offerings) and the tail current sink is slightly fussy and oddball.
Sonics are a personal choice though, if you like what it does then that is all that really matters.
The LTP (long tailed pair) differential input stage is pretty basic (and I'm not a fan of LTP input stages as it happens... having owned several commercial designs, and built many diy offerings) and the tail current sink is slightly fussy and oddball.
Sonics are a personal choice though, if you like what it does then that is all that really matters.
IMO there is nothing basic in how it plays music just get a good one and you would understand right away..I am not new to music or how real live Instuments sound ..I have perfect pitch ..
There is nothing perfect but this is the only amplifier I have ever heard play close like what I hear live with real musical character !!! if there is something better in your oppion please I would like to know about it
Very wide band speakers 13 to 100kc
Lawrence
Post #107 here kind of sums my thoughts and experiences.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...fet-amplifier-designed-music.html#post1539997
Its not a case of 'better', its what you prefer listening too.
And I have high hopes for both of these. The second one is actually extremely simple and started life as a three transistor (as in three physical devices) amplifier.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...fet-amplifier-designed-music.html#post1539997
Its not a case of 'better', its what you prefer listening too.
And I have high hopes for both of these. The second one is actually extremely simple and started life as a three transistor (as in three physical devices) amplifier.
I dissagree there is better and if you know what the real thing sounds like this is what I'm after I'm not into pleasing Anyone but myself ...it's sometimes a lonely affar because no one I talk too understands..all there audiophile jargon bs etc....my system is about making live life like sound in the confront of my home piano is a wonderful instrument that I have strived to sound like a real one!
Now with all that said my friend could you tell me more about your amp and how long have you been listening tweeting it?
Your system ?
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B&W703's and a Marantz Pearl Lite SA-CD are the main components together with Sony Minidisc and a Pure DRX701 digital (DAB) tuner.
The amp is essentially unchanged since first being built and has been 99% reliable 😉 the 1% bit being a problem with the mechanical relays for speaker delay and DC offset protection. A curious fault that should by rights only happen to other people but it happened to me. Opamps used in the front end line stages were originally OPA2604's but later changed to LM4562's
Post #260
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/191449-output-relays.html#post2659578
and post #267
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/191449-output-relays.html#post2660474
prerequisites
I would like start off with this new thread
Prerequisites for the musical truth amplifier
But first need to explain a few of these and what its going to take to get there starting off .....your foundation should be a good wide band speaker (mine 13-100kc)
But even more importantly you need a good wide band source dynamically unrestricted remember music is not fr limited or dynamically limited either...imo this kinda leaves out digital as it will never again be put back together as is was the original analog signal and most digital is bandwidth limited anyways
I Listen to choir accompanied by pipe organ very powerfull stuff
large scale orchestral real musical instruments kinda music no studio recorded manipulated stuff
Bigband , piano sonatas etc
Need an amplifer that will really pass all the musical information unrestricted .
that means wide band from dc to 100kc and beyond need an amp that will not ring in any range or freq combined need an amplifer that will play all the harmonic structure not just harmonics that go up but harmonics that goes down too!
And yes harmonics can go down just listen to a real pipe organ
When designing an amplifier imo this are some of the things that should be thought about because if you start off bandaiding and with restrictions you might as well hang it up
Lawrence
I would like start off with this new thread
Prerequisites for the musical truth amplifier
But first need to explain a few of these and what its going to take to get there starting off .....your foundation should be a good wide band speaker (mine 13-100kc)
But even more importantly you need a good wide band source dynamically unrestricted remember music is not fr limited or dynamically limited either...imo this kinda leaves out digital as it will never again be put back together as is was the original analog signal and most digital is bandwidth limited anyways
I Listen to choir accompanied by pipe organ very powerfull stuff
large scale orchestral real musical instruments kinda music no studio recorded manipulated stuff
Bigband , piano sonatas etc
Need an amplifer that will really pass all the musical information unrestricted .
that means wide band from dc to 100kc and beyond need an amp that will not ring in any range or freq combined need an amplifer that will play all the harmonic structure not just harmonics that go up but harmonics that goes down too!
And yes harmonics can go down just listen to a real pipe organ
When designing an amplifier imo this are some of the things that should be thought about because if you start off bandaiding and with restrictions you might as well hang it up
Lawrence
In my experience when simulating amps, so long as the distortion's not excessive (say its below 0.2% and predominantly low-order) then paying attention to power supply rejection pays dividends in subjective sound quality.
Mooly, I like these designs a lot and I'm glad someone else sees the advantages of using folded drivers for MosFet outputs. Triple output pairs should give it tremendous current handling at those modest rails, and I bet it will sound great if biased rich with the single transistor input promoting H2.
Thanks 🙂 A high bias version certainly simulates well. These show 1 watt @ 100ma and 500ma bias, and then full output @ 500ma. All into 6 ohm.
What was your deciding factor(s) moving from OPA2604's to LM4562's in the front end?
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That was a quick edit 😉
The OPA2604 (well OPA604) was a device I had used in the past and was very impressed by. That made it a first choice for me at the time (and remember we're going back nearly a decade here). When the 4562 started to appear, and when it started to gather favourable impressions, that was the time I thought I would try it. Around that time I also tried the OPA2134 which many were raving over but ultimately I was underwhelmed. I stuck with it for several weeks but nothing changed the view that things were inferior to the OPA2604. That was when the 4562's were fitted and they have remained ever since. Purely subjective I know, but I would say the 4562 is more clinical than the 2604 but that said it has stood the test of time.
The OPA2604 (well OPA604) was a device I had used in the past and was very impressed by. That made it a first choice for me at the time (and remember we're going back nearly a decade here). When the 4562 started to appear, and when it started to gather favourable impressions, that was the time I thought I would try it. Around that time I also tried the OPA2134 which many were raving over but ultimately I was underwhelmed. I stuck with it for several weeks but nothing changed the view that things were inferior to the OPA2604. That was when the 4562's were fitted and they have remained ever since. Purely subjective I know, but I would say the 4562 is more clinical than the 2604 but that said it has stood the test of time.
Gotcha. Both are solid and represent excellent sonic characteristics, IMO. As you say, simply subjective based around personal preference. Thanks for your thoughts.
also wanted to say you guys are smarter
I hope I didn't offend that's not my style just wanted to give you guys some background
I truly with your help would like to build a better amplifier but its going to be a hard long road ...looking at the 430 hopefully should give some clues as why i think its the best ever done for music ...(not your lab)
it is not a forgiving amplifier but if you have all your ducks lined up in a row this amp is tops!...
can we build something better? an i mean not in the lab kinda way!!.... really look at it from a different perspective...to understand each other as i hope we can and do this together and learn from one another maybe we need to build each others amps but the H/K is special and it has a fantastic preamp too so unless you find a real good stock 430 and do the mods i tell you...you may never know this goes to anyone who wants to do this with us....
again i cannot stress you need wideband system no bottle neck otherwise you may not know what your doing...top to bottom
Lawrence
I hope I didn't offend that's not my style just wanted to give you guys some background
I truly with your help would like to build a better amplifier but its going to be a hard long road ...looking at the 430 hopefully should give some clues as why i think its the best ever done for music ...(not your lab)
it is not a forgiving amplifier but if you have all your ducks lined up in a row this amp is tops!...
can we build something better? an i mean not in the lab kinda way!!.... really look at it from a different perspective...to understand each other as i hope we can and do this together and learn from one another maybe we need to build each others amps but the H/K is special and it has a fantastic preamp too so unless you find a real good stock 430 and do the mods i tell you...you may never know this goes to anyone who wants to do this with us....
again i cannot stress you need wideband system no bottle neck otherwise you may not know what your doing...top to bottom
Lawrence
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