Hi. Since I have a pair of S1s with damaged woofers and replacement parts are absurdly expensive, possibly more than the repaired speakers would be worth, I'm curious if there might be any value to a DIYer in the Be tweeters and/or the supposedly resonant-free aluminum cabinets. The way the S1s are designed I'm not sure if any other midbass drivers would fit, but I assume the tweeters could be reused in a project??
I have blown paradigms too, what do ya know!
I don't think they're good speakers. Only ones I ever blew so far (knock wood).
I don't think they're good speakers. Only ones I ever blew so far (knock wood).
People do seem to overdrive these little speakers a lot. I expect the tweeters would be of value to some enthusiast, but I'd quite fancy my chances of reverse engineering a replacement bass/mid unit there:
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SoundStage! Equipment Review -Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)
I'll wager the tweeter is heavily attenuated on an 84dB efficiency design which gives some flexibility. The crossover is doubtless full of driver specific tweeks too and some value changes might be required, but these things are doable. You'd want to have them in bits, find out the bass/mid resistance (4 ohms?) and estimate the Qes to find a driver of similar properties and dimensions and the PCD of the fixing holes. Curiously, these things are often standard. Worth a look at least to salvage $1500 speakers.
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SoundStage! Equipment Review -Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)
I'll wager the tweeter is heavily attenuated on an 84dB efficiency design which gives some flexibility. The crossover is doubtless full of driver specific tweeks too and some value changes might be required, but these things are doable. You'd want to have them in bits, find out the bass/mid resistance (4 ohms?) and estimate the Qes to find a driver of similar properties and dimensions and the PCD of the fixing holes. Curiously, these things are often standard. Worth a look at least to salvage $1500 speakers.
Thank you for the information system7. They are nice sounding speakers and it is actually rather sad in my case -- I have two pairs of them -- 1 set of v.2s and 1 set of v.3s which I bought because it was an unusually good deal to use after one of the original ones developed a loud buzzing noise at higher SPLs. I presume it was overdriven but they were also somewhat protected with a 100hz crossover point and I know it's conceivable that something is just loose inside but I haven't taken it apart at this point. Then, before I even swapped in the v.3s I turned off my projector one night and in the pitch black forgot they were on the floor next to my monitor and managed to put my foot right into the midbase and crunched it up. Even though I know it is a 3db mismatch, for a brief while I was using the functional one from each pair and the 2nd v.2 midbass stopped working entirely and I was even being more careful with them at this point.
Paradigm said they might be able to re-cone the v.3 and repair the other (talked to them before the 2nd one blew) without replacing the entire unit which would not be economical on a speaker that is worth at best $400 used. A Paradigm dealer in Portland that is also a long-time speaker repair shop will take a look at them and possibly perform the same work without me shipping them to Canada. It'll likely make sense to fix the one v.3 with the electronics still good to make a pair, but not so sure on the two v.2s.
So...hence my question on this forum. I could do enough research to maybe deal with a replacement, non-OEM driver, but the crossover modification would be beyond my skill so they would have to find a new home if someone wanted to work a deal for the parts/project if it isn't economical for me to get them fixed professionally. As an aside, if they can't re-cone and/or repair the voice coil, etc... then Paradigm has no replacement v.2 drivers on a model that is only a few years old and the v.3s are only sold in a tweeter/mid kit for a measly $800 LOL! Other than offering for me to ship them to Canada so they could see what they could do without any up-front idea of the possible cost, I'm rather dissapointed in the parts support.
Paradigm said they might be able to re-cone the v.3 and repair the other (talked to them before the 2nd one blew) without replacing the entire unit which would not be economical on a speaker that is worth at best $400 used. A Paradigm dealer in Portland that is also a long-time speaker repair shop will take a look at them and possibly perform the same work without me shipping them to Canada. It'll likely make sense to fix the one v.3 with the electronics still good to make a pair, but not so sure on the two v.2s.
So...hence my question on this forum. I could do enough research to maybe deal with a replacement, non-OEM driver, but the crossover modification would be beyond my skill so they would have to find a new home if someone wanted to work a deal for the parts/project if it isn't economical for me to get them fixed professionally. As an aside, if they can't re-cone and/or repair the voice coil, etc... then Paradigm has no replacement v.2 drivers on a model that is only a few years old and the v.3s are only sold in a tweeter/mid kit for a measly $800 LOL! Other than offering for me to ship them to Canada so they could see what they could do without any up-front idea of the possible cost, I'm rather dissapointed in the parts support.
Paradigm has been bought by a rapacious "corporate" entity. Expect to seem them in box houses before long. When under the original ownership, they provided excellent service and back up. Sic transit gloria mundi! I too have a pair of sig1v3. I use them for classical in a semi near field set-up. They are wonderful especially when driven by triode tubes. They would not be my first choice for high volume home theater. They are best used as professional near fields. Sorry about your problems, they WERE a great company. BTW they have fired all their reps and so you must deal with THEM. Regards
I might add the basket for the mid-woofer is an integral part of the cabinet design so I suspect that any idea of replacing it with another model is doomed to failure. Regards
I was just looking at the Paradigm brochure. Lovely high-tech speakers! 😱
The woofer might be a bit tricky to replace with a special fitting. Maybe new cabinets instead...
You know the S1 v2 might not have much wrong with them...buzzing at high SPL could be a loose crossover coil. A dead one could just be a broken solder lead. I'd have them in bits like a flash! 😀
The woofer might be a bit tricky to replace with a special fitting. Maybe new cabinets instead...
You know the S1 v2 might not have much wrong with them...buzzing at high SPL could be a loose crossover coil. A dead one could just be a broken solder lead. I'd have them in bits like a flash! 😀
John, I hear you. I started with Paradigm 20 years ago and always had great support (mostly the local dealer though) and was happy with the product, but went with smaller company products and Ellis kit speakers in the interim, but this latest experience will probably be the last. Although I agree with you that as a nearfield monitor they would be great. If I get the v.3s working I intend to move them to the bedroom where it's more about quality than quantity. The HT definitely needs better power handling capabiliy as it is nearly impossible to get dialog loud enough while avoiding the big booms and crashes. I should have known better considering this 5.1 set was barely used and traded back in to the dealer from a Portland woman's HT because she needed more volume. She had a large HT and mine is large-ish.
system, I don't doubt you would. Too bad you are across the rather large pond or I'd make you a great deal. While I'm no good at soldering I do have basic multimeter skills though so I should open them up this week before making any decisions. I already swapped my Ellis 1801s in their place so they are just sitting there at the moment.
system, I don't doubt you would. Too bad you are across the rather large pond or I'd make you a great deal. While I'm no good at soldering I do have basic multimeter skills though so I should open them up this week before making any decisions. I already swapped my Ellis 1801s in their place so they are just sitting there at the moment.
Crap! Who bought them?
I was thinking about some S8's in the next year or so...
Looks like ill be expanding my diy from amps and preamps to speakers too.
Not to change subject,someone said triodes with these.
Can you give more info?
I think it is the same "people" who bought Martin Logan. That shold give you some idea of the "quality" of their operation. Scott Bagby and crew really did a great job producing world class speakers at reasonable prices. I trusted their ears and their facilities more than perhaps anyone else. Small companies just cannot afford the engineering talent and test facilities needed these days to really design a superior product. Paradigm for example built the largest anechoic chamber in Canada-larger than the NRC. As to triodes, I am currently using ASL Monsoons in triode for 60 watts per channel. They have been modded with teflon coupling caps. I find the combination superb. However, they use 8-EL34s each monoblock and weigh around 70lbs. Not for the faint-hearted. Regards Dr. John Dozier
BTW Paradigm's new CEO is an ME with prior experience heading up a chimney manufacturer. You heard it here first! Regard
Dang it. Another one bites the dust.
I would agree I always thought they where/are well rounded for the price.
Not the best in the world, but darn good for the $.
Triodes: cool, I was under the impression paradigms impednce curves didn't work to well with tubes.
I will say I haven't looked at any of those specs since studio 60 V3's.
So I was assuming all down the road are the same. That's what I get.
I would agree I always thought they where/are well rounded for the price.
Not the best in the world, but darn good for the $.
Triodes: cool, I was under the impression paradigms impednce curves didn't work to well with tubes.
I will say I haven't looked at any of those specs since studio 60 V3's.
So I was assuming all down the road are the same. That's what I get.
I would disagree with the not the best in the world comment. The Sig1v3 is certainly one of the best near fields, outlclassing some far more expensive monitors by K&H, Spendor, and others. This applies ONLY to the Sig1, not the larger models. Regards
sakelogg, to re-iterate what john said, the S1 v.3s are considered by many to be the best of the sig lineup with sealed cabinets and some tech not shared by the larger speakers. No doubt the S8s are very good, but they are also very expensive and I only bought the S1/C1/ADP1 set because it was much more reasonable priced. At the S8 price-point, I'd look at Salk speakers for pre-mades with top-end drivers and custom cabinets. My Ellis 1801 kits use somewhat similar drivers and the same crossover guru and they sound great and have been bulletproof for almost a decade.
I did not know that about sig 1's. I got to admit I didn't even listen to them when I bought my sigs. And after that I made a promise to my wife to quit looking for some years.
I am interested in any diy options that would compair to S8's.
I've been thinking about jim holts statments.
Ya know I don't mean to thread jack here.
Jim, I say not the best in the world cause I havent heard them all
I did buy them and felt they are the best I tryed.
I have had paradigm/anthem for 15 years. I love mine but diffrent stokes ya know
I am interested in any diy options that would compair to S8's.
I've been thinking about jim holts statments.
Ya know I don't mean to thread jack here.
Jim, I say not the best in the world cause I havent heard them all
I did buy them and felt they are the best I tryed.
I have had paradigm/anthem for 15 years. I love mine but diffrent stokes ya know
No worries. These are not really DIY but something that I think would compare favorably to the S8s from a small shop are:
HT3 - home
Of course a huge amount of the cost is in the cabinets (more of a direct comarrison to S8s than a typical hommade box) and if you could build something similar you could save a lot of money and more power to you.
HT3 - home
Of course a huge amount of the cost is in the cabinets (more of a direct comarrison to S8s than a typical hommade box) and if you could build something similar you could save a lot of money and more power to you.
Well, if you like the speakers, why not just do what any reasonable diyer would do? Pull the front baffle. Remove your blown drivers, fashion a new baffle for some drivers in the existing hole, mount new drivers. You may have to find somebody that has a good pair to measure the T/S parameters, but after that you can spend as much time or as little looking for a driver to suit. If there is no protection within the speakers, or built in circuit protection in your amplifier, then there is no protection.You may have just "lucked out".
When I sold audio (over 20 years ago), Paradigm was a pretty good manufacturer. They always had well built, high value products. I haven't been around any new Paradigms for years, but if under the original group, then the same values should have stayed intact. PSB, Energy, Clements,etc (all the Canadian makers that followed the gospel according to Floyde Toole at the National Research Council in Ottawa), made great value stuff. Paradigm stood out as not following the doctrine according to Toole too closely. I always thought they sounded way more musical than the PSB and Energy speakers of the time.
It is quite interesting that you have stated that the woofers are both blown. What are you driving them with? Often too little power can cause more damage than too little power (overdriving the amp into clipping, and driving the woofers' voice coils into thermal meltdown).
Alas, the basket is part of the speaker enclosure on this model. I doubt a replacement can be fashioned. Regards
Nanook, not sure if that is a jab at me for asking questions on a DIY forum prior to milling my own aluminum baffle (the baffle is only 5mm thick and wraps around the sides so not sure wood would work), sourcing new drivers, and modifying the crossover, but I appreciate the response and to answer your questions:
Yes I like the speakers but I've already stated they don't seem suitable for my fairly large HT use, so it is difficult to justify a project as complex as you suggest only to sell the speakers that are worth at best $400 ea in stock form and I'm sure much less with a hommade repair. That's why I was curious if the tweeter and crossover might interest a hobbyist who would actually use them.
My amplifier is a 7 ch balanced Emotiva MPS-2 which is rated for 200 watts into 8 ohms and the S1s list a max input of 100 watts so I don't think they were under powered. Per the Soundstage review linked above, Paradigm claims 110db output design specs and I've never driven them that hard, and with a high crossover.
As a side question, can you even get 110db with 84db efficiency speakers with 100 watts?
To be fair I never claimed that both drivers were blown, only that one was dead and one was buzzing at high SPL and here is some data I got tonight:
Dead woofer:
Crossover terminals: tweeter - 4.5 ohms, woofer - 10 ohms
Driver leads: tweeter - 3.0 ohms, woofer - 0 ohms
Buzzing woofer:
Crossover terminals: tweeter - .6 ohms, woofer - 10 ohms
Driver leads: tweeter - 3.0 ohms, woofer 3.0 ohms
Does the difference at the tweeter crossover terminals make any sense? And does the readings on the woofer leads mean one voice coil is fried and the other has a more benign problem?
Yes I like the speakers but I've already stated they don't seem suitable for my fairly large HT use, so it is difficult to justify a project as complex as you suggest only to sell the speakers that are worth at best $400 ea in stock form and I'm sure much less with a hommade repair. That's why I was curious if the tweeter and crossover might interest a hobbyist who would actually use them.
My amplifier is a 7 ch balanced Emotiva MPS-2 which is rated for 200 watts into 8 ohms and the S1s list a max input of 100 watts so I don't think they were under powered. Per the Soundstage review linked above, Paradigm claims 110db output design specs and I've never driven them that hard, and with a high crossover.
As a side question, can you even get 110db with 84db efficiency speakers with 100 watts?
To be fair I never claimed that both drivers were blown, only that one was dead and one was buzzing at high SPL and here is some data I got tonight:
Dead woofer:
Crossover terminals: tweeter - 4.5 ohms, woofer - 10 ohms
Driver leads: tweeter - 3.0 ohms, woofer - 0 ohms
Buzzing woofer:
Crossover terminals: tweeter - .6 ohms, woofer - 10 ohms
Driver leads: tweeter - 3.0 ohms, woofer 3.0 ohms
Does the difference at the tweeter crossover terminals make any sense? And does the readings on the woofer leads mean one voice coil is fried and the other has a more benign problem?
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