I was a bass player ages ago (lol, 25ish years?) and just recently ordered one for Father’s Day.
I’ve been a tinkerer forever and have been eyeballing all the lovely and inexpensive new gear out there now… class D amps, and inexpensive subs and DML speakers and all this fun stuff I never knew I needed. ;-p
I want to shove a 10-12” sub (or maybe a 4 8” ones?) into a slightly beefed up bass guitar case, along with a few hundred watts of Class D amp and with some of the Dayton audio exciters to use one of the panels as a flat panel speaker. Ideally it would also have an AC and DC option. It also hopefully holds the guitar when it’s not being used. ;-p The intent is to jam with friends, maybe getting a little rowdy but not bringing down the house.
Not asking for much? lol. Anyway, I’m still in the ideas stage and have a few guidance questions.
Which is likely to work best, a single larger sub or several smaller ones? The “Enclosure” volume is likely to be 1.75-2 cubic feet. But some at least will be padded/felt lined which will eat some space. 16x48x5 or 6-ish inches.
Layout wise I’m debating between smaller subs and/or full range speakers on either side of the neck firing to the “back” or bottom, or a larger shallow mount sub with the neck literally sitting on foam padding on the speaker magnet when the bass is stored. The mids I’m not as worried about space wise, but I’m planning to at least try a DML flat panel soloution and see how far I get.
There’s obviously a lot of challenges, not the least of which is designing for a poor “enclosure” and just physically figuring out where and what to fit in there. It also can’t be toooo heavy, and still needs to protect the guitar in travel. Let me know if I’m missing something obvious as to why it’s a total no-go.
So… TLDR if you were thinking of making a bass amp that is also a bass case would you pick multiple smaller drivers or one as big as you can manage? (Ignore mids for now.)
I’ve been a tinkerer forever and have been eyeballing all the lovely and inexpensive new gear out there now… class D amps, and inexpensive subs and DML speakers and all this fun stuff I never knew I needed. ;-p
I want to shove a 10-12” sub (or maybe a 4 8” ones?) into a slightly beefed up bass guitar case, along with a few hundred watts of Class D amp and with some of the Dayton audio exciters to use one of the panels as a flat panel speaker. Ideally it would also have an AC and DC option. It also hopefully holds the guitar when it’s not being used. ;-p The intent is to jam with friends, maybe getting a little rowdy but not bringing down the house.
Not asking for much? lol. Anyway, I’m still in the ideas stage and have a few guidance questions.
Which is likely to work best, a single larger sub or several smaller ones? The “Enclosure” volume is likely to be 1.75-2 cubic feet. But some at least will be padded/felt lined which will eat some space. 16x48x5 or 6-ish inches.
Layout wise I’m debating between smaller subs and/or full range speakers on either side of the neck firing to the “back” or bottom, or a larger shallow mount sub with the neck literally sitting on foam padding on the speaker magnet when the bass is stored. The mids I’m not as worried about space wise, but I’m planning to at least try a DML flat panel soloution and see how far I get.
There’s obviously a lot of challenges, not the least of which is designing for a poor “enclosure” and just physically figuring out where and what to fit in there. It also can’t be toooo heavy, and still needs to protect the guitar in travel. Let me know if I’m missing something obvious as to why it’s a total no-go.
So… TLDR if you were thinking of making a bass amp that is also a bass case would you pick multiple smaller drivers or one as big as you can manage? (Ignore mids for now.)
It’s so subjective, lol.
Maybe something like a 100 to 150 watt combo amp. Enough to be heard playing with, well maybe not an angry drummer but at least a slightly annoyed one. ;-p
Just jamming with buddies in the basement, but a maybe a little loudly. Enough low tones for the low B to feel “full” but not shake windows too much.
Maybe something like a 100 to 150 watt combo amp. Enough to be heard playing with, well maybe not an angry drummer but at least a slightly annoyed one. ;-p
Just jamming with buddies in the basement, but a maybe a little loudly. Enough low tones for the low B to feel “full” but not shake windows too much.
Ok, here’s the update. I’ve got some parts on the way, starting with the audio exciters. I plan to start with these, and if nothing else I’ll turn them into some funky speakers for the house.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...m-2-Hole-Exciter-24W-4-Ohm-295-225?quantity=1
I picked up 4.
The plan is to stick them on 1/4 birch ply and see what it can do and if it sounds like it has enough “presence” to work in conjunction with a sub. I got the screw on mounting plug design because it looks easier to experiment with.
I also have this Class D amp, currently to be used with the headphone out from a little headphone practice amp.
https://a.co/d/06U2tYJU
I liked this one because its watt output ranges well with voltage input, so I can start out at low input voltage and work my way up.
This is the headphone amp, if anyone was interested. I like that it hooks to Bluetooth so I can look up songs on YouTube and jam with them. I don’t really use effects on it with bass so no feel on that front.
https://a.co/d/0iXLh8jx
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...m-2-Hole-Exciter-24W-4-Ohm-295-225?quantity=1
I picked up 4.
The plan is to stick them on 1/4 birch ply and see what it can do and if it sounds like it has enough “presence” to work in conjunction with a sub. I got the screw on mounting plug design because it looks easier to experiment with.
I also have this Class D amp, currently to be used with the headphone out from a little headphone practice amp.
https://a.co/d/06U2tYJU
I liked this one because its watt output ranges well with voltage input, so I can start out at low input voltage and work my way up.
This is the headphone amp, if anyone was interested. I like that it hooks to Bluetooth so I can look up songs on YouTube and jam with them. I don’t really use effects on it with bass so no feel on that front.
https://a.co/d/0iXLh8jx
Probably better as funky speakers for the house, they want lightweight material like foam core to make much noise.
For bass, you want a stiff, airtight (other than bass reflex ports) enclosure.
Plywood ATA (Airline Transit Authority) cases fit that general requirement:
It is possible to DIY a case like that, but the valence material has to be sized for the plywood you use, preferably at least 3/8", bass enclosures are usually 3/4".
Any air leaks will make noise and waste considerable amounts of your limited power.
Don't waste time on a small power supply, get 36volts and ~6 amps.
Since you have a five string bass (32Hz low B), and limited cabinet volume, sealed would be the easy choice. Bass reflex (ported) would be more efficient, but fitting the very long ports required inside the cabinet more challenging. That said, using plumbing pipe, the ports could be carried in the case and fitted outside when playing. An example here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/hot-rod-8-2-way-pa-studio-monitor.343215/
To make any appreciable output down low, the drivers need to "move a lot of air", so you are looking for the best displacement vs cost ratio. Displacement = cone area (Sd) times Xmax (linear excursion).
Multiple smaller drivers will be easier to fit in your bass case than a single large driver of equal displacement, and will generally have better sound in the upper range.
Art
Right now, I’m eyeballing this speaker:
https://a.co/d/09cpSMED
In conjunction with the DML panel IF the DML experiments work out. Sealed enclosure, no ports (the low end bump isn’t worth the effort for this use.) I’m actually reaching “up” with this sub, not down lol. I’d use a woofer if I could find similar shallow mounts but the industry doesn’t really “do” that. This “sub” has specs and user reviews that place it as higher frequency than some of its peers, which is better in my use case. winISD shows it falling off around 40 but close enough. Top end should reach the 200-400hz rollover expected to match the DML’s.
There’s some examples of using the ply effectively as a DML surface, but I’m hardly married to ply as the surface. It’s just cheap, available and EZ place to start testing. The foam core is possible too, or as a tougher alternative I do the foam core with a layer of CF or fiberglass and see how that works. Actually, another alternative I’ve considered is just cardboard. Throw a cool looking light cloth and resin on it and see how it plays. In the end, that’s just an excuse to play with that tech, lol.
The case will be a custom construct, with additional bracing if needed and sealed air tight, or at the least as close to that as I can get, lol. 1/4-3/8 birch ply with thicker on the edges (support and sealing surfaces) was the thought. I haven’t played with fiberglass in a couple of years, but it may come in to play.
If the DML experiments works out the lid will be… well, I have some ideas lol. If it doesn’t I’ll probably fall back to adding some smaller midbass/full range drivers and call it a day.
https://a.co/d/09cpSMED
In conjunction with the DML panel IF the DML experiments work out. Sealed enclosure, no ports (the low end bump isn’t worth the effort for this use.) I’m actually reaching “up” with this sub, not down lol. I’d use a woofer if I could find similar shallow mounts but the industry doesn’t really “do” that. This “sub” has specs and user reviews that place it as higher frequency than some of its peers, which is better in my use case. winISD shows it falling off around 40 but close enough. Top end should reach the 200-400hz rollover expected to match the DML’s.
There’s some examples of using the ply effectively as a DML surface, but I’m hardly married to ply as the surface. It’s just cheap, available and EZ place to start testing. The foam core is possible too, or as a tougher alternative I do the foam core with a layer of CF or fiberglass and see how that works. Actually, another alternative I’ve considered is just cardboard. Throw a cool looking light cloth and resin on it and see how it plays. In the end, that’s just an excuse to play with that tech, lol.
The case will be a custom construct, with additional bracing if needed and sealed air tight, or at the least as close to that as I can get, lol. 1/4-3/8 birch ply with thicker on the edges (support and sealing surfaces) was the thought. I haven’t played with fiberglass in a couple of years, but it may come in to play.
If the DML experiments works out the lid will be… well, I have some ideas lol. If it doesn’t I’ll probably fall back to adding some smaller midbass/full range drivers and call it a day.
The Infinity reference-1200sm looks like a good choice for the project.
Just going off it's published specs, you can expect to reach Xmax at 99dB at 30Hz (low B), 104dB at 40Hz (low E) with it in a sealed cabinet.
The cabinet suggestions response seems reasonable:
At 2.83volts, (2 watts @4ohm) the sealed does ~80dB @30Hz, 85dB @40hz.
With 200 watts, 100dB@30Hz, 105dB @40hz.
100dB@30Hz sounds about equal loudness to ~50dB at 1kHz, a quiet conversation.
The driver could take more than 200watts, but will be above 10% distortion, and when driven past Xmax, the mids start to sound "gargly".
At 2.83volts, (2 watts @4ohm) the 33Hz Fb ported does 89dB @30Hz, 92dB @40hz.
With 200 watts, 109dB@30Hz, 112dB @40hz.
It would be +5dB louder @30Hz, +7dB louder @40hz than the sealed.
Given just 1/4 the power it would be near the level of the sealed woofer.
When you consider equal loudness contours, +4dB @30Hz sounds around "twice as loud".
And consider these are one meter levels- an orchestral kick drum can do ~115dB at three meters, snare ~108dB. Rock drummers tend to do those kinds of levels when "restrained"
Anyway, since you potentially have the cabinet volume for the bass reflex, I'd suggest using it, you can always adjust the low/high balance with tone controls, but when you can't hear the low end at full power, nothing you can do about it except distort
.Art