Please read my last post in
Best ever FR Speaker
topic
My views are updated and I stand corrected.
Its true we all hear and listen differently, due to a subjective filtering.
Bias? Skewed? Prejudice? lack of experience? Who knows.
Why even cares.
WE all have didfferent parimeters and ideas as to what makes high fidelity.
WE can now all agree I was wrong in my impressions of the Davidlouis.
Now I realize its just a ordinary FR speaker.
And like a confessed Philistine, I will agee all FR has at the least a few tiny issues.
AS the mantra goes, Nothing is perfect in this world.
Speakers foremost are prone to this existential fact.😎
I have now abandoned my quest for the Holy Grail.
Its all been fantasy. A mere wisp of a dream.
🙁🙁🙁
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Do you equalize them flat? That would be the only way to have a speaker without colouration.
If you eq them flat they all sound alike. Or even the same. Try it. DSP is your friend.
But you will not get the tweeter into. physical position that gives you the “magic” quarter-wave length spcing and you loose coherency.
Adding a tweeter to a good FR usully makes things worse.
dave
Depends on the super tweeter, XO, which for me was typically a small piezo with a really high [1st order] since no need to go low at any real gain, i.e. rolls off enough by the time it got down to folk's acute hearing BW.
I once built a 20cm, 8inch fullrange driver, dsp assisted with sandwich diaphragm, wide dispersion in the highs going from 30hz to 20 kHz with a passive radiator in only an 8 liter enclosure. No resonances in the mids and with low distortion up to 85 dB.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160211070105/http://onewayspeaker.com/technische-daten.html
It had also "speed" in the highs due to a controlled break up around the voice coil.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160211070105/http://onewayspeaker.com/technische-daten.html
It had also "speed" in the highs due to a controlled break up around the voice coil.
I built a variation of this legendary fullrange driver, Pfleid FRS20,
https://web.archive.org/web/20030211005925/http://www.pfleid.de/
https://web.archive.org/web/20030211005925/http://www.pfleid.de/
Anyone tried the Kartesian Wib120? Distortion and dispersion seem pretty awesome
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/wib120-vhe
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-kartesian-wib120-vhe-8-ohm-120-mm.html
https://www.kartesian-acoustic.com/wib120-vhe
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-kartesian-wib120-vhe-8-ohm-120-mm.html
Yes me too. A car-mount ceramic dome tweeter over the dust cap of 15" wide-range, with a small boost from "plast" wave-guide/phase-plug.
On the subject of "best" FR... My Axiom 80 are stored in another continent. I'm now listening to two 8" whizzer FRs that extend but don't shout. The Supravox has coherence, air and realism, while the drum-paper MKHIFI/Hifi-bird/isred has better macro and micro dynamics very reminiscent of the Axiom.
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It looks good, but to small and to high FS for a real fullrange driver. But it could be a good candidate for the top of a WAW config, with a woofer below 200Hz. But with those specs even a very low tuned TL type won't get much bass out of it. And it's a bit expensive compared to similar drivers from Faital, Mark Audio or so...
I bought a pair of Chinese full range speaker clones. Namely the Audio Labs DQ40TZF-02 8ohm 4 " drivers. I wasn't expecting much tbh. Build quality was very good and they had a good weight to them., so encouraging stuff. Cone varies in description from Bamboo to paper to mixed fibres so take your pick.
As for sound? well, every other 4" driver I have tried, and I have tried several believe me are not, are not as accomplished and engaging to my ears as these. Especially in the high registers where for whatever reason they shine. Overall, I find them very musical and satisfying in my Frugal Horn Mk 3's.
Subjectively, are they the best I've heard? They are at the minute, so presently these are my choice.
Attachments
Hello Forum
I built a FAST system 10 years ago using Vifa 10BG120/6 and Visaton TIW 200 XS in two separated closed volumes. Controlled by an DSM-240 with X0 at around 400Hz.
I think I made a mistake with the Vifa because it was always very limited due to only 0,8Xmax if it's getting serious. I want to correct this now by replacing the Vifa.
The candidates I found to be suitable according to this forum could be:
1. Scan Speak 10F/8424G00
2. Visaton B80
3. MOAP 7
4. Alpair 5.3
5. CHN 50
6. ???
Cost no issue.
It should somehow fit in size and optics.
What would be your recommendation?
I'm especially interested in the opinion of @xrk971 as you seem to be very experienced with FAST systems.
Thanks
I built a FAST system 10 years ago using Vifa 10BG120/6 and Visaton TIW 200 XS in two separated closed volumes. Controlled by an DSM-240 with X0 at around 400Hz.
I think I made a mistake with the Vifa because it was always very limited due to only 0,8Xmax if it's getting serious. I want to correct this now by replacing the Vifa.
The candidates I found to be suitable according to this forum could be:
1. Scan Speak 10F/8424G00
2. Visaton B80
3. MOAP 7
4. Alpair 5.3
5. CHN 50
6. ???
Cost no issue.
It should somehow fit in size and optics.
What would be your recommendation?
I'm especially interested in the opinion of @xrk971 as you seem to be very experienced with FAST systems.
Thanks
Attachments
I wouldn't necessarily say you've made a mistake. Plenty of very good 2-way systems use wideband mid-tweeters with that, or less, rated linear travel. Don't forget, Xmax in itself doesn't have much meaning -there isn't even a single definition for what it even is (I stopped counting definitions at about a dozen, most of which give different values if you apply them to the same drive unit, and none of which really give you much in the way of useful information).
Be that as it may, if you're concerned about power handling, before buying another driver, I suggest you try to raise your crossover frequency to above 500Hz with the existing setup. Most music power demands fall below that point; above 500 or so it falls off a metaphorical cliff (slight exaggeration, but only slight). The pioneers settled on 500Hz or 800Hz for their 2-ways, partly for this reason and the laws of physics and engineering are the same now as they were then. You don't say what the filter order is, but if it's relatively shallow-slope, could also increase the order to take further stress off the mid-tweet. Assuming the Vifa doesn't have severe HD issues, which is unlikely, you'd have to be really pushing it for distortion to be a major problem after that. FWIW, on paper, LR4 acoustic HP gives the highest power-handling of the common flat-summing filters, at least in terms of driver excursion -better in fact in that sense than higher order types.
Be that as it may, if you're concerned about power handling, before buying another driver, I suggest you try to raise your crossover frequency to above 500Hz with the existing setup. Most music power demands fall below that point; above 500 or so it falls off a metaphorical cliff (slight exaggeration, but only slight). The pioneers settled on 500Hz or 800Hz for their 2-ways, partly for this reason and the laws of physics and engineering are the same now as they were then. You don't say what the filter order is, but if it's relatively shallow-slope, could also increase the order to take further stress off the mid-tweet. Assuming the Vifa doesn't have severe HD issues, which is unlikely, you'd have to be really pushing it for distortion to be a major problem after that. FWIW, on paper, LR4 acoustic HP gives the highest power-handling of the common flat-summing filters, at least in terms of driver excursion -better in fact in that sense than higher order types.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. HD = harmonic distortion. In this case, I should have written something like 'assuming the Vifa doesn't have severe rising / spiking 3rd or higher order harmonic distortion in this region, which is unlikely'.
It'll be higher, but I doubt it will be excessive. Granted, 'they who do not measure do not know' 😉 but in the absence of that, and balancing probabilities, Vifa usually had decent enough motors. Either way -since it costs nothing other than a bit of time, I'd say it's worth trying before hitting the credit card!
It'll be higher, but I doubt it will be excessive. Granted, 'they who do not measure do not know' 😉 but in the absence of that, and balancing probabilities, Vifa usually had decent enough motors. Either way -since it costs nothing other than a bit of time, I'd say it's worth trying before hitting the credit card!
Hello, as Scott moose said I would just put another slope filtering the vifa.
With active filter Beheringer DCX you can choose 24db filters.
Maybe active current drive amps bring distortion further down.
For example
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...n-to-current-drive.389985/page-7#post-7225986
Or choose Rasmussen current drive amps.