Would like information, e.g., schematic, how-to, etc., on building my own supertweeters.
Have purchased the Taket "BatPure" modules
<http://taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html>
However, their Sensitivity of 70dB is considerably lower than the 90dB of my main speakers. Reading about commercially available supertweeters such as Townsend, Murata, etc., indicates that a step-up transformer is required.
Am capable of the mechanical aspects such as soldering, fabricating but out of my depth with calculations that might be required.
Thanks.
Have purchased the Taket "BatPure" modules
<http://taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html>
However, their Sensitivity of 70dB is considerably lower than the 90dB of my main speakers. Reading about commercially available supertweeters such as Townsend, Murata, etc., indicates that a step-up transformer is required.
Am capable of the mechanical aspects such as soldering, fabricating but out of my depth with calculations that might be required.
Thanks.
By what criteria do you define : Super tweeter? What should it be able to do? Where do you allow concessions and where not?
In short : the entire project brief.
In short : the entire project brief.
I would like to build a pair of standalone supertweeters from the BatPure modules. I would define supertweeters as speakers capable of reproducing ultrasonic frequencies, i.e., those beyond audible range (nominally 20kHz).
The BatPure has a Frequency Response of 15kHz to 100kHz which should be fine for my needs.
As initially stated, my requirement is to increase the Sensitivity from their spec'd 70dB to approximate that of my speakers which is 90dB.
No need to be concerned with mounting/cabinetry. Primary focus is electronic aspect.
It comes down to physical limitations.. If you need to reproduce frequencies in that range with enough loudness, size and weight must be minimal. Probably that BatPure device just manages to perform.
The only system I know of capable to reproduce frequencies in that range and with the loudness you want, would be constructed around some plasma-device...
Forget conventional mechanical systems.
I have to step in and troll this thread before it gains too much legitimacy in DIY bizarro land. IMHO the whole premise of a "super tweeter" (covering frequencies between 10kHz to 50k-100k Hz) is really stupid in this day and age.
Back around 1970 when you were lucky if your expensive main speaker reached 10kHz and even that might be rolled off, a supertweeter made sense.
Today? Not so much. Off the shelf 13mm-19mm tweeters can reach 30-40kHz on their own. For example:
Dayton ND16-FA, cost $10each, sensitivity: 88dB@2.83V, 1m.
Frequency Response:
You are very unique if you can actually hear above 20kHz (or above 15kHz if you are a male older than 40yrs). Ultrasonic energy above your hearing range is not going to make anything "sound" better. Plus, the effects that come into play when you cross over to a "super tweeter" at 10kHz are actually causing problems that were not there in the absence of the super tweeter.
So, while you are welcome to buy/build a "super tweeter" it's really not giving you any sonic benefits and will only lighten your wallet.
Back around 1970 when you were lucky if your expensive main speaker reached 10kHz and even that might be rolled off, a supertweeter made sense.
Today? Not so much. Off the shelf 13mm-19mm tweeters can reach 30-40kHz on their own. For example:
Dayton ND16-FA, cost $10each, sensitivity: 88dB@2.83V, 1m.
Frequency Response:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You are very unique if you can actually hear above 20kHz (or above 15kHz if you are a male older than 40yrs). Ultrasonic energy above your hearing range is not going to make anything "sound" better. Plus, the effects that come into play when you cross over to a "super tweeter" at 10kHz are actually causing problems that were not there in the absence of the super tweeter.
So, while you are welcome to buy/build a "super tweeter" it's really not giving you any sonic benefits and will only lighten your wallet.
Anyway to reach the 90dB SPL you are going to need a 600+ V drive level for this Piezo as a rough estimate ( 70dB/ 1M / 1W/ 4Kohm/ 100KHz/ 63V rms ).
Hi,
I've already told you if you build a step up to get from 70dB
to 90dB those tweeters won't last 5 minutes in the real world.
However it seems you need to find that out for yourself.
20dB is simply a gain of 10, a 1:10 step up ratio. In this
case the load is high impedance,basically a capacitor,
so look at pulse transformers, e.g. :
GA3459-BL COILCRAFT, Pulse Transformer, 1:10, 5 µH, 0.0077 ohm, 1.5 kV | Farnell element14
Note that anything above 15V across it will fry
the BatPures. as they can only take 150V.
rgds, sreten.
I've already told you if you build a step up to get from 70dB
to 90dB those tweeters won't last 5 minutes in the real world.
However it seems you need to find that out for yourself.
20dB is simply a gain of 10, a 1:10 step up ratio. In this
case the load is high impedance,basically a capacitor,
so look at pulse transformers, e.g. :
GA3459-BL COILCRAFT, Pulse Transformer, 1:10, 5 µH, 0.0077 ohm, 1.5 kV | Farnell element14
Note that anything above 15V across it will fry
the BatPures. as they can only take 150V.
rgds, sreten.
I have to step in and troll this thread before it gains too much legitimacy in DIY bizarro land. IMHO the whole premise of a "super tweeter" (covering frequencies between 10kHz to 50k-100k Hz) is really stupid in this day and age.
Back around 1970 when you were lucky if your expensive main speaker reached 10kHz and even that might be rolled off, a supertweeter made sense.
Today? Not so much. Off the shelf 13mm-19mm tweeters can reach 30-40kHz on their own. For example:
Dayton ND16-FA, cost $10each, sensitivity: 88dB@2.83V, 1m.
Frequency Response:
You are very unique if you can actually hear above 20kHz (or above 15kHz if you are a male older than 40yrs). Ultrasonic energy above your hearing range is not going to make anything "sound" better. Plus, the effects that come into play when you cross over to a "super tweeter" at 10kHz are actually causing problems that were not there in the absence of the super tweeter.
So, while you are welcome to buy/build a "super tweeter" it's really not giving you any sonic benefits and will only lighten your wallet.
I have just ordered a pair of JBL ES 20 's with " super tweeters " ( hence why the thread caught my eye ) that claim 40 kHz and being realistic all i'm really expecting is a large number of stray dogs to appear in my yard . 🙂
Pyle do some very high power tweeters.
I have built a couple of systems with them in and they sound good.
I have built a couple of systems with them in and they sound good.
I understand most, OK some, of what responders have posted to my request.
I understand the limitations of human hearing and, even more so, my own. What got me interested in this quest was reading, among others, this article which appears to demonstrate listener response to frequencies above the audible range as measured by EEG...
<http://jn.physiology.org/content/83/6/3548.full>
My understanding is that manufacturers of supertweeters, e.g., Townsend, Tonian, even Taket themselves, use step up transformers to increase Sensitivity of ribbon-based supertweeters.
IF as some have suggested, that using what is deemed to be a step-up transformer of adequate specification will "toast" the Taket ribbons, I pose to the group what these manufacturers might be doing differently than why I am proposing?
FWIW, I have also read that ribbon-based (super)tweeters are much better at producing high frequencies than cone tweeters. Having said that, I am sure that there are articles to be found supporting any tweeter tech...including plasma.
I understand the limitations of human hearing and, even more so, my own. What got me interested in this quest was reading, among others, this article which appears to demonstrate listener response to frequencies above the audible range as measured by EEG...
<http://jn.physiology.org/content/83/6/3548.full>
My understanding is that manufacturers of supertweeters, e.g., Townsend, Tonian, even Taket themselves, use step up transformers to increase Sensitivity of ribbon-based supertweeters.
IF as some have suggested, that using what is deemed to be a step-up transformer of adequate specification will "toast" the Taket ribbons, I pose to the group what these manufacturers might be doing differently than why I am proposing?
FWIW, I have also read that ribbon-based (super)tweeters are much better at producing high frequencies than cone tweeters. Having said that, I am sure that there are articles to be found supporting any tweeter tech...including plasma.
What you want is super tweeter to have same voltage sensitivity as your speakers. You can do that with step-up transformer. However you will need lot of wattage in order to do so. Your super tweeter is 4 (?) ohms nominal, with step-up transformer the impedance will drop considerably. You will end up somewhere less than 1 ohm range so your step-up transformer needs to be low resistance and you amplifier need to be very beefy. How ever the signal level at those frequencies is likely to be rather small in typical music so drive voltage from amplifier should remain quite low and this arrangement might actually work.
If your super tweeter is of high impedance, like tens of ohms or more then it's quite optimal to be used with step-up transformer.
In case of low impedance super tweeter one might consider making it active, having an amplifier its own and using the amplifier sensitivity to match level with speakers.
my2c
If your super tweeter is of high impedance, like tens of ohms or more then it's quite optimal to be used with step-up transformer.
In case of low impedance super tweeter one might consider making it active, having an amplifier its own and using the amplifier sensitivity to match level with speakers.
my2c
Right.. so definitely this driver is designed to be operated via step-up transformer.
I don't really see a problem here just choose the correct transformer for the job 🙂
You need step-up transformer 1:10 ratio for 20dB gain. Bandwidth must be high enough for this purpose, maybe 4kHz to 40kHz? 20VA might be good starting point for real music content, i guess.
I have no experience in these things so please don't take my word on it.
I have no experience in these things so please don't take my word on it.
You might be better of with something like a
pioneer pt-r4
90dB/W/(1m)
Maximum input (JEITA) 100W
might want to start here...
another-diy-ribbon-thread.html
pioneer pt-r4
90dB/W/(1m)
Maximum input (JEITA) 100W
might want to start here...
another-diy-ribbon-thread.html
You might be better of with something like a
pioneer pt-r4
90dB/W/(1m)
Maximum input (JEITA) 100W
might want to start here...
another-diy-ribbon-thread.html
Thanks for the suggestion and link. There is considerable competition for the Pioneer in the $1,000 ballpark for PnP speakers. I am avoiding this level of investment until I can do proof of concept for myself and my ears.
Maybe I will post an inquiry on the ribbon-thread regarding step-up xformer.
