Hey everyone, first time posting on here after a year or two of lurking and trying to take it all in.
I'm an audio enthusiast but have thus far only ever collected IEMs. I own several pairs, my current endgame being a wonderful set of Unique Melody MEST MKIIs.
Speaker-wise, I've been rocking the same pair of KRK Rokit G3s since forever, and I've been meaning to eventually build my own system. I love high efficiency, large multi ways. Yearning for one of those monstruous ones rocking 18" woofers... But ehhh, budget constraints.
Anyway. Was at a flee market yesterday and scored a pair of mint condition Pioneer Prologue 4 bookshelf for a whooping.. 15€.
Plugged them on a cheap bluetooth amp to test them out, and they sound really nice. Full bodied, engagin and detailed, to my surprise. A bit spicy in the treble region, but nothing that can't be fixed. The only thing is, they absolutely and utterly lack any sort of bass impact, as I was expecting from these 8" woofers. These are sealed cabinets and were obviously not designed to rock the house.
I'm thinking of using those as part of a cheap-system to quench my thirst for new audio gear for a little while, as I think they look pretty awesome.
I would want to add a DIY subwoofer to the set, but I honestly don't know where to start looking. I just need that extra oomph and bass details. I'd build the cabinet myself and would like to keep the cost to a minimum. Looking for the best bang for my buck here, because I'll still need to sink some €s into an amp afterward.
Any driver/design recommendations is more than welcome, thanks in advance!
I'm an audio enthusiast but have thus far only ever collected IEMs. I own several pairs, my current endgame being a wonderful set of Unique Melody MEST MKIIs.
Speaker-wise, I've been rocking the same pair of KRK Rokit G3s since forever, and I've been meaning to eventually build my own system. I love high efficiency, large multi ways. Yearning for one of those monstruous ones rocking 18" woofers... But ehhh, budget constraints.
Anyway. Was at a flee market yesterday and scored a pair of mint condition Pioneer Prologue 4 bookshelf for a whooping.. 15€.
Plugged them on a cheap bluetooth amp to test them out, and they sound really nice. Full bodied, engagin and detailed, to my surprise. A bit spicy in the treble region, but nothing that can't be fixed. The only thing is, they absolutely and utterly lack any sort of bass impact, as I was expecting from these 8" woofers. These are sealed cabinets and were obviously not designed to rock the house.
I'm thinking of using those as part of a cheap-system to quench my thirst for new audio gear for a little while, as I think they look pretty awesome.
I would want to add a DIY subwoofer to the set, but I honestly don't know where to start looking. I just need that extra oomph and bass details. I'd build the cabinet myself and would like to keep the cost to a minimum. Looking for the best bang for my buck here, because I'll still need to sink some €s into an amp afterward.
Any driver/design recommendations is more than welcome, thanks in advance!
Welcome & congrats on finding a speaker that you like.
I'm not sure what all is available in Belgium, but maybe a peerless SLS 10" sub in a sealed box?
Surely there must be plate amps available on your continent....
I'm not sure what all is available in Belgium, but maybe a peerless SLS 10" sub in a sealed box?
Surely there must be plate amps available on your continent....
If someone knows the secret to cheap do-it-yourself speakers let me in?
By the time you gather up tools and supplies, all the material, and surprise pop up needs along the way. It might be cheaper ( often is) to find a local pre owned plug and play box.
I'm not sure where the misconception started but it hasn't been my experience that DIY is the cheaper alternative.
By the time you gather up tools and supplies, all the material, and surprise pop up needs along the way. It might be cheaper ( often is) to find a local pre owned plug and play box.
I'm not sure where the misconception started but it hasn't been my experience that DIY is the cheaper alternative.
Find blown subs and powered full range's on Ebay (or the street). I have a Polk 10" (free) , and 12" sub (27$). ALL the amps blow on these.
Either make or buy replacement powered speaker amps and pre-cut aluminum plate.
All I had to buy was the caps and toroid trafo's for both subs. The ones from polk were cheap Craap!
Either make or buy replacement powered speaker amps and pre-cut aluminum plate.
All I had to buy was the caps and toroid trafo's for both subs. The ones from polk were cheap Craap!
Yea, I forgot about that! An excellent method if you don't have access to an entire shop. Heck, I just did that with a blown Sunfire Junior.
A sub on the cheap, it's hard to do right i think. The GRS 10SW-4 Subwoofer (for sale on soundimport for 40€) is maybe a good candidate for that, in a 100L sealed (use min 18mm mdf for this if it needs to be cheap). F6 is about 31Hz like that and max volume at 30Hz is 98dB before you run out of xmax. Cheaper than that is not possible i think, i build that sub for someone on the cheap and total project was 150€ (user had an older QSC amp and dbx analog crossover already for it). It gives bass, not the best or cleanest of course, but it gives bass till relative low and relative ok in sound.
So I just had a look at both that GRS driver and the pioneer speakers you got and I must say: even though the GRS is a very low budget (high value!) Sub, it will absolutely blow you away compared to those Pioneers! The magnets on the woofers of the Prologue 4 are not quite as big as a hockey puck. But whatever, if you like the sound then all is well. 👍
If you are not opposed to something more...
0.75ft^3 sealed and moderately filled, with Dayton MX10-22 and 300W Class D amp with boost on.
This is a very affordable 10" sub plan that will impress you. I never named this one, but there isn't much to the design here.
0.75ft^3 sealed and moderately filled, with Dayton MX10-22 and 300W Class D amp with boost on.
This is a very affordable 10" sub plan that will impress you. I never named this one, but there isn't much to the design here.
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True true, or even free with dead plates in some cases. I prefer to do passive active anyways. People give them away when they realize how much trouble it is to ship a sub back and forth to another country for repair when the plate goes south, or the warranty is up and they get shocked by the repair costs involved. I got lucky on a couple free ones in the past, and have missed others. A Rel and SVS pb10. On the average I notice a sub offered for free about 5-6 months apart.
Wolf thats it 🙂. I got a totl Dayton a couple weeks ago, for less money than a much more popular make I have. yet the Dayton out performs it.
Build a sealed cabby and have a pro amp on full time subwoofer duty. I gave up on plates unless its Hypex or a handful of other well made brands.
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I'm doing one not exactly cheap but not a bank breaker either. I paid similar for sub build supplies, top grade plywood, upper tier Dayton and everything necessary. Not including amp and not including the new router I needed and new carpeted sub cabinet I ordered (got impatient). I initially couldn't wait to test my new sub, Ill end up keeping that box (It will go good in the truck later).
I guess you can call it cheap but only cheap-er, and if comparing to a commercial unit that costs 3x that, yet trails behind it in performance.
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If you ask for a cheap subwoofer, you should define cheap. A number in € or US$ is helpfull.
If you think of no work and low cost as "cheap", eBay is a good source. A used sub might look cheap because of dents and scratches, but play like new. DIYS may be in improving the look. You usually find many reviews of those listed on eBay and can sort out the unreliable ones.
Your speakers will be happy with an 8" - 20cm subwoofer. A 10" -25cm is the largest you may use for them.
If you like to DIYS there are many ways. Buy one with a blown amp (eBay again) and change the plate. Get a plate amp, speaker and wood if you are sure you can handle tools and know better...
Best as a "don't know nothin DIYS beginner" is a good plan someone with skills made and others tried out. Stick to the plan, don't get creative and read the manual. Best result for lowest cost, usualy.
If you think of no work and low cost as "cheap", eBay is a good source. A used sub might look cheap because of dents and scratches, but play like new. DIYS may be in improving the look. You usually find many reviews of those listed on eBay and can sort out the unreliable ones.
Your speakers will be happy with an 8" - 20cm subwoofer. A 10" -25cm is the largest you may use for them.
If you like to DIYS there are many ways. Buy one with a blown amp (eBay again) and change the plate. Get a plate amp, speaker and wood if you are sure you can handle tools and know better...
Best as a "don't know nothin DIYS beginner" is a good plan someone with skills made and others tried out. Stick to the plan, don't get creative and read the manual. Best result for lowest cost, usualy.
That was for a friend who lost everything (but his laptop and his luggage as he was on holyday) during the big flashfloods in Pepinster (Belgium) in July 2021, and the budget we (a group of friends) set up was 500€ for a total setup that we would give to him as he is a big music lover and diy guy. He lost a system that had probally 5K in it, and all his tools to make it. His music was on an external HD (digital files) that he took with him on holiday, his backup was at his fathers house (in the region of Namur Belgium, that was not flooded). I did build a pair of Overnight Sensations and that sub for him, and someone else gave him a old QSC 4 x 100w amp originally build for theaters and a dbx analog crossover. And so he had a system again to start over in his new rental house. His old rental house in Pepinster was totally gone, destroyed by the flashflood of the river Vesder that ran next to it.
Now it's too dry actually, especially in the southern parts. But even in Belgium ground water levels are very low. The problem is not the ammount of water, but the spread of rain and how we deal wit it in Belgium. It used to be constant (every month a bit of rain, and a bit of sun), but now it's extreme in both ways. To dry for a long period or flashfloods where a certain area gets as much water in one day as it should have in a few months.
But now back on topic
But now back on topic
Oh no ^ ;(.
Back to scheduled program. The free t3 is of the best musical subs I ever heard. LFE movie dialog the wee one doesn't do as good, it often bottoms out where I like volume set at. I left the plate in not wanting to bugger up the tuning by simply covering the hole. It wouldn't take much to alter sq a bad way with a 10" cube.
Keep an eye out people get sick of bulky subs, or their wives do, or indeed the plates quit way more than people would like to admit and then they get given away for cheap or free. Keep looking and youll hit on them, they go quick. Bulky or not if they don;t want them I'll be there to grab it before you hang up the phone. I'm either lucky or cruising classifieds too often for other stuff when I hit on them.
The SVS looks like it could level the house, but I don't like how the older pb systems sound, pass it along.
I passed on two or three servo design subs at least as well. Servo systems sound excellent in there own right but they would mismatch my setup. If I'm not mistaken they require a servo plate amp.
Back to scheduled program. The free t3 is of the best musical subs I ever heard. LFE movie dialog the wee one doesn't do as good, it often bottoms out where I like volume set at. I left the plate in not wanting to bugger up the tuning by simply covering the hole. It wouldn't take much to alter sq a bad way with a 10" cube.
Keep an eye out people get sick of bulky subs, or their wives do, or indeed the plates quit way more than people would like to admit and then they get given away for cheap or free. Keep looking and youll hit on them, they go quick. Bulky or not if they don;t want them I'll be there to grab it before you hang up the phone. I'm either lucky or cruising classifieds too often for other stuff when I hit on them.
The SVS looks like it could level the house, but I don't like how the older pb systems sound, pass it along.
I passed on two or three servo design subs at least as well. Servo systems sound excellent in there own right but they would mismatch my setup. If I'm not mistaken they require a servo plate amp.
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It really depends.
What do you consider cheap? What is your actual budget?
Do you have access the tools?
What do you consider cheap? What is your actual budget?
Do you have access the tools?
Even the mid range of subs - 300-400$ are "cheap". Both the 12" Klipch ( cheap driver with 30mm coil) ... And the 12" polks that actually have a decent 40mm
4 layer voice coil. The enclosures are 20mm MDF , at best. Amps are TDA-xxxx with 80VA trafo's. I'm running a REAL amp (below) - with 200VA trafo.
I almost screwed up , I ran that Polk sub at 14hz (Youtube 14hz test), Started smelling a slight odor !! I think I overheated the voice coil , but ... I was getting
20+ mm Xmax at @200W with that amp.
The Woofer still reads 7R and I could see the coil ( not darkened) . I might just buy a real SUB (dayton audio LS12-44). Cool flat piston woofer (below 2).
T/S specs of the Dayton seems to match my 60L polk box. I'll just sell the POLK 12" driver for 20-30$ , It sounds alright in it's box now - I can shake the whole building. I don't know IT'S T/S params , it's very stiff and has a F3 of 26hz.
I just like the "space age" flat piston of the LS12-44 !!
The only better subs I've seen are B & K 12" (500$ +) and SVS , a few others in the 600-1000$ range. The B&K has the same 200+W A/B amp and a Cast frame
300W driver (like the Dayton). 1K$ gets you a 500W icepower class D and a cast 20KG monster woofer with 25mm XMAX.
Most of the Crutchfield sub offerings are a big ripoff. Very few component pairings justify 1500-2K$ investments.
Dayton Audio RSS315HE-22 , 120L box and a quality class D plate amp would match any 1200-1500$ "supersub" for <500$.
OS
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You can build a pretty solid good sounding sub with $500.00. Using a new subwoofer from PE, and building your own box from raw material. Unless you want to put in another $100 for a pre made box (wich are not too bad compared to a decade or two ago). So lets call it $500.00 plus another $300.00 for amp and crossover with some type of boost or $600.00 for a better one. DIY is already costing more.
BTW the amp in my T3 bit the big one, ie sold the farm and quit working.
BTW the amp in my T3 bit the big one, ie sold the farm and quit working.
I can see why. Nice materials , but hot zener regulators for the input board. having that hot E-I trafo on the plate is also stupid. I mount my
(cool) Toroids on the floor of the sub box and have a nice cool regulated LM7812/7912 low voltage supply running from a separate
secondary. REL definitely outsourced the design with "penny pinching" in mind.
So many plate amps I have seen "cooked" .... I overdesign to the max , over- rating caps and semi's and keeping everything cool as possible.
Amps in sub boxes are in a hostile environment.
OS
(cool) Toroids on the floor of the sub box and have a nice cool regulated LM7812/7912 low voltage supply running from a separate
secondary. REL definitely outsourced the design with "penny pinching" in mind.
So many plate amps I have seen "cooked" .... I overdesign to the max , over- rating caps and semi's and keeping everything cool as possible.
Amps in sub boxes are in a hostile environment.
OS