don't worry 80uf poly is big but definitely fits inside your cabinet . I just love this... you are supporting economic growth which in the end is all that matters. I was thinking how much more transparent and detailed if the cap foil is made of pure gold with 3mm solid gold square inductors wire to match.
That will make even less difference than the miniscule one of changing one poly cap for another of the same size.
I have no interest in debating something unproven. You will do what you're going to anyway.
Don't waste your money.
I have to admit to have dramatically changed my mind about these caps over the last decade. The MR were then new and still unbroken and clearly i rushed to conclusions. The Sonus Faber speakers at the time may also have played a role.
My current system dislikes most silver parts and that includes the entire silver and silver/gold range of Mundorf. If for some reason i have to use Mundorf films it is either the plain MKP or the oil free EVO.
Wel on this subject of caps, someone really started to measure different caps with rather hi end measurment equipment: Capacitor upgrade in crossover - Is it audible? | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
And the conclusion is is that caps don't matter that much (at least what type of brand). The main difference is that elco's have a higher ESR and are unstable over time, but any type of filmcap does the job.
Therefor (and also from real life experience) i tend to use the cheapest decent axial caps i can find, which are mostly Jantzen crosscaps or Dayton PMPC. The latter are better as the tollerances are tighter (1% vs 5%). And that is what matters, ESR and tollerances and stability over time.
But if you feel better when spending big bucks on fancy caps, go ahead, i don't really care much about that. In worst case it will be a little bit less good, but mostly just the same.
And the conclusion is is that caps don't matter that much (at least what type of brand). The main difference is that elco's have a higher ESR and are unstable over time, but any type of filmcap does the job.
Therefor (and also from real life experience) i tend to use the cheapest decent axial caps i can find, which are mostly Jantzen crosscaps or Dayton PMPC. The latter are better as the tollerances are tighter (1% vs 5%). And that is what matters, ESR and tollerances and stability over time.
But if you feel better when spending big bucks on fancy caps, go ahead, i don't really care much about that. In worst case it will be a little bit less good, but mostly just the same.
Hey thanks, believe it or not your views are well taken (because you seem respectful). At this point Im just experimenting. I f I dont notice an improvement, I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. But Ive found in my audio journey that many of my lessons had to be learned first hand, and I have been pleasantly surprised in some cases!
I was thinking of moscovium. But then my speakers might take off on me at the speed of light! (faster than sound)
It’s hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like at least one of the capacitors could be an electrolytic. If that is true, it might be worth changing it out for a different type assuming you can find one that will fit on what appears to be a very crowded board. And that’s not because it will necessarily make any difference in the sound, but electrolytics sometimes do change their values with age. And eventually they can leak.
Otherwise, listen to Brett and save your time and money. Changing capacitor types is not going to be audible. There are many claims here that it will be, but none of them have any real validity.
There has yet to be a well controlled test with impartial participants to prove any value or difference by changing capacitors. Nevertheless the myth here persists. Unfortunately confirmation bias fueled by uninformed comments is a very difficult thing to defeat.
What I keep expecting to see is when someone looking to upgrade a crossover doesn't find what they want with direct swaps, that they then move on to changing values, measuring etc.
Yeah, and by second guessing the experienced person who designed the crossover to begin with by thinking that they somehow know more about it.
The 'designer' was likely hampered by a mandatory budget restriction, and physical size restriction. If it had not been for these kinds of things, the 'designer' might have chosen differently. Even if just an ordinary polypropylene, the size is much larger and the cost more substantial towards the company's bottom line.
To say the modifier thinks that they know more than the 'designer' is just hogwash.
Later,
Wolf
To say the modifier thinks that they know more than the 'designer' is just hogwash.
Later,
Wolf
Aside from who did what and when, the basic point is that the type of capacitor has no effect on the sound.
There is no technical basis for it, it has never been proven, and yet it remains a common misconception on this forum and elsewhere.
Unfortunately, as a result people spend time and money chasing after it and believing that they hear a difference. Yet, if you ask them to explain how it is possible they can't. All we get is that very scientific phrase "trust your ears".
There is no technical basis for it, it has never been proven, and yet it remains a common misconception on this forum and elsewhere.
Unfortunately, as a result people spend time and money chasing after it and believing that they hear a difference. Yet, if you ask them to explain how it is possible they can't. All we get is that very scientific phrase "trust your ears".
I've seen enough change among capacitor measurements to warrant a reasonable doubt (personally).
(once we move past the frequency curve alone)
One thread on ASR isn't valid proof to disregard those differences and their effect on audibility.
Why would one disqualify the fun some people have by experimenting with capacitor sound due to their different make and materials?
The "Sound" of Capacitors
Comparison Charts of Film & Foil Organic Capacitors | doEEEt.com
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/INFO_ClarityCap_Technical_Report.pdf
I'm raised to think scientifically myself. But that doesn't mean science has all the answers figured out yet. Personally I've encountered enough moments that warrant that 'reasonable doubt' part for me. Trying to Keep an open mind and not shutting the blinds on possibilities beyond the obvious.
-If some capacitors add something to the sound, even if it shouldn't be there, but there's enough buyers that may like that effect, then what's wrong with that? A slight raise in some distortion types (compared to others) could add something euphoric. The same holds true for drivers and their materials.
(not discounting that others might be capable to find the cleanest sounding capacitors, that have the least audible distortions)
All this coming from someone that hasn't rolled any capacitors yet. I simply haven't had the time for yet another experiment. 🙂
(once we move past the frequency curve alone)
One thread on ASR isn't valid proof to disregard those differences and their effect on audibility.
Why would one disqualify the fun some people have by experimenting with capacitor sound due to their different make and materials?
The "Sound" of Capacitors
Comparison Charts of Film & Foil Organic Capacitors | doEEEt.com
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/INFO_ClarityCap_Technical_Report.pdf
I'm raised to think scientifically myself. But that doesn't mean science has all the answers figured out yet. Personally I've encountered enough moments that warrant that 'reasonable doubt' part for me. Trying to Keep an open mind and not shutting the blinds on possibilities beyond the obvious.
-If some capacitors add something to the sound, even if it shouldn't be there, but there's enough buyers that may like that effect, then what's wrong with that? A slight raise in some distortion types (compared to others) could add something euphoric. The same holds true for drivers and their materials.
(not discounting that others might be capable to find the cleanest sounding capacitors, that have the least audible distortions)
All this coming from someone that hasn't rolled any capacitors yet. I simply haven't had the time for yet another experiment. 🙂
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I hear differences even between caps of the same type, same serie, same case, but different rated voltage (MLCCs included).
A believer...(pfff)
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Well, there are people that believe that bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster exist. Doesn't mean it's true.
Doesn't that apply to every type of belief?
Even the belief that capacitors cannot sound different? 😀
Even the belief that capacitors cannot sound different? 😀
But this isn't about belief in something highly improbable, more about EE.
Not really. I'll accept that caps of the same type and value sound different when there's empirical evidence to back it up and so far, I've yet to see any evidence that there's an audibly significant difference.
That said, your statement is asking to prove a negative.
I'm not looking for proof nor is it meant to be a statement. I merely leave some room for reasonable doubt.
If anyone would conduct a test like that, it would have to come out of the science corner anyway.
Once something can measure differently (even if it's beyond the frequency curve alone) I'll accept that it can have an influence on how we perceive it.
I've linked measurements that indicate differences. Even if one of the documents might be suspect coming from a capacitor maker and one other from an
employee of a capacitor maker. I'll leave it at that. I'm not planning to make anyone change their minds. I did change my mind though, a while ago.
I've always stated that well engineered amplifiers should sound the same, that is until I was proven wrong in the comforts of my own home by some kind
members of this forum. That made me "see" things a little different.
I just hope we can leave some room for each other.
If anyone would conduct a test like that, it would have to come out of the science corner anyway.
Once something can measure differently (even if it's beyond the frequency curve alone) I'll accept that it can have an influence on how we perceive it.
I've linked measurements that indicate differences. Even if one of the documents might be suspect coming from a capacitor maker and one other from an
employee of a capacitor maker. I'll leave it at that. I'm not planning to make anyone change their minds. I did change my mind though, a while ago.
I've always stated that well engineered amplifiers should sound the same, that is until I was proven wrong in the comforts of my own home by some kind
members of this forum. That made me "see" things a little different.
I just hope we can leave some room for each other.
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^^ Sure, as I said, I'm open to changing my mind in the face of evidence. If you (by that I mean anyone) wishes to believe in something different to me, fine, providing you're not putting others in danger.
This is a public forum, so expect contrary remarks.
I don't see any evidence to back up your case in the links you provided, and so far, having watched this since the original article in '80, Cy Brenneman's is the best test so far.
This is a public forum, so expect contrary remarks.
I don't see any evidence to back up your case in the links you provided, and so far, having watched this since the original article in '80, Cy Brenneman's is the best test so far.
Now that I can agree with. As that is leaving room for it.
Contrary remarks are not a problem, as long as we leave that bit of room. 🙂
Contrary remarks are not a problem, as long as we leave that bit of room. 🙂