I need advice from the experts here.
I want to buy an MC capsule, specifically the famous and renowned Denon DL-103.
This capsule needs a medium to high mass arm, it seems that the higher the mass, the better it behaves from everything I have read.
I have a Micro Seiki MA707 arm that comes supplied with accessories to raise the dough so I can use it with cartridges like the Denon mentioned.
Within my limited budget (and what I'm willing to spend), I had Pro Ject tube phono presets in mind.
But they have presented new and more expensive models, (it is always like that, gg 😀 ) and even the current Tube Box S2 is not suitable for low output MC, only MM and high output MC. The current ideal model would be the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2, but its price is around 1000 US $, + freight and taxes, so I discard it outright ....😱
So, I abandoned the idea of the pre tubes and found that Musical Fidelity V90-LPS (It's from SS, yes, like the Nad PP2, something cheaper the latter) has good reviews and a price according to what I want to spend.
The question I have is about its pairing with the Denon cartridge
, its output is 0.3 Mv and the pre MF V90-LPS claims 0.4 Mv (400 MicroV) for an output of 300 Mv.
But on the other hand, the input sensitivity of my tube amp is 270 Mv, which would compensate for that very small margin.....
Also my cabinets are high efficiency, 95 DB / 1w / 1m.
I will appreciate any opinion and / or experience, everything is welcome.
DL-103R + V90-LPS = good match?- Vinyl Engine
DL-103
DiaLogue Two — PrimaLuna USA
Musical Fidelity | V90-LPS Phono Stage
I want to buy an MC capsule, specifically the famous and renowned Denon DL-103.
This capsule needs a medium to high mass arm, it seems that the higher the mass, the better it behaves from everything I have read.
I have a Micro Seiki MA707 arm that comes supplied with accessories to raise the dough so I can use it with cartridges like the Denon mentioned.
Within my limited budget (and what I'm willing to spend), I had Pro Ject tube phono presets in mind.
But they have presented new and more expensive models, (it is always like that, gg 😀 ) and even the current Tube Box S2 is not suitable for low output MC, only MM and high output MC. The current ideal model would be the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2, but its price is around 1000 US $, + freight and taxes, so I discard it outright ....😱
So, I abandoned the idea of the pre tubes and found that Musical Fidelity V90-LPS (It's from SS, yes, like the Nad PP2, something cheaper the latter) has good reviews and a price according to what I want to spend.
The question I have is about its pairing with the Denon cartridge
, its output is 0.3 Mv and the pre MF V90-LPS claims 0.4 Mv (400 MicroV) for an output of 300 Mv.
But on the other hand, the input sensitivity of my tube amp is 270 Mv, which would compensate for that very small margin.....
Also my cabinets are high efficiency, 95 DB / 1w / 1m.
I will appreciate any opinion and / or experience, everything is welcome.
DL-103R + V90-LPS = good match?- Vinyl Engine
DL-103
DiaLogue Two — PrimaLuna USA
Musical Fidelity | V90-LPS Phono Stage
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I thought somebody would have "chimed in " by now ?
Anyway you are not leaving yourself a lot of headroom and you don't want to spend a lot of money but want quality reproduction then why not --as this website says ---DIY ?
Build your own the DL-103 is well known over many decades and there are many audio moving coil voltage "booster" circuits available .
No they don't need a Diploma in Electronics , I have always taken the view -make it simple- make it "straight through " that cuts down the many audio paths an audio signal has to go through.
When you are dealing with micro-volts it doesn't take much to disrupt
the purity of the signal so the components must be high quality .
Anyway you are not leaving yourself a lot of headroom and you don't want to spend a lot of money but want quality reproduction then why not --as this website says ---DIY ?
Build your own the DL-103 is well known over many decades and there are many audio moving coil voltage "booster" circuits available .
No they don't need a Diploma in Electronics , I have always taken the view -make it simple- make it "straight through " that cuts down the many audio paths an audio signal has to go through.
When you are dealing with micro-volts it doesn't take much to disrupt
the purity of the signal so the components must be high quality .
While some may view this as "old school " and yes the audio chips can be "uprated " I always liked JLH defense of "shunt feedback ",of course D.Self condemned it, one criticism being noise but he didn't give a real reply to John,s insistence on it "sounding better ".
I actually built this from John,s original design -
John Linsley Hood K1500 Shunt Feedback MM and MC RIAA Pickup Preamp
Its simple to build and the one capacitor in series with the signal can be a very high quality film type ( not metallic ).
Before someone posts ----"they are chips " --yes I know and yes I built all Johns discrete versions too.
I am just trying to make it easier for the poster .
I actually built this from John,s original design -
John Linsley Hood K1500 Shunt Feedback MM and MC RIAA Pickup Preamp
Its simple to build and the one capacitor in series with the signal can be a very high quality film type ( not metallic ).
Before someone posts ----"they are chips " --yes I know and yes I built all Johns discrete versions too.
I am just trying to make it easier for the poster .
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I have the Denon DL103R on my Technics table and it works very well with the RJM Audio Phonoclone 3 headamp. I built it about 10 years ago and it has performed flawlessly for me. Best of all it is a DIY project you can find details on here:
Phonoclone 3
Phonoclone 3
I don't like anything from MF.
I've been living happily with this little ECC88/6DJ8 pre-preamp with a DL103 for nearly half a century. You'll need to build it, but it's so simple I'm sure anyone can do it. The only catch is you need to select the tubes for noise.
I've been living happily with this little ECC88/6DJ8 pre-preamp with a DL103 for nearly half a century. You'll need to build it, but it's so simple I'm sure anyone can do it. The only catch is you need to select the tubes for noise.
Duncan 2 and kevinahcc20
I appreciate your advice, but I don't have the time right now to build a DIY project. I have several unfinished things, including:
1 - Change an integrated circuit (IC) from an Akai GXC705D cassette recorder (it has already been purchased, you just need to get down to business ”...
2 - I have not been able to finish this yet, I think I will sell the components that I have, offering them as a kit "to complete" .....
Some young electronics student who wants a clone of a pre "vintage" (MM) MCIntosh of the MA6100 might be interested.
Preamp MC Intosh MA-6100 (DIY)
3 - Reconditioning an old Lenco B-55 to be able to digitize 78 RPM lacquer discs inherited from my father-in-law. The special 78 RPM needle for a Shure M-44C cart is also purchased and awaiting its "debut".
4 - Place an oscilloscope kit (already assembled board) inside a cabinet and connect it to a computer through the sound board.
5 - Change the "standard" copper cables from my subwoofer connection to "audiophile" ones made of transparent PVC and OFC copper, also while waiting.
The list goes on, it is time to work less and enjoy more, I am one of those who think that we do not take anything "at the end of the road" ....
And all this without mentioning that lately I have been fixing the roof of my house, and yesterday I made a pending repair for a few years on my car, cleaning the carburetor,etc. etc ....🙄
I appreciate your advice, but I don't have the time right now to build a DIY project. I have several unfinished things, including:
1 - Change an integrated circuit (IC) from an Akai GXC705D cassette recorder (it has already been purchased, you just need to get down to business ”...
2 - I have not been able to finish this yet, I think I will sell the components that I have, offering them as a kit "to complete" .....
Some young electronics student who wants a clone of a pre "vintage" (MM) MCIntosh of the MA6100 might be interested.
Preamp MC Intosh MA-6100 (DIY)
3 - Reconditioning an old Lenco B-55 to be able to digitize 78 RPM lacquer discs inherited from my father-in-law. The special 78 RPM needle for a Shure M-44C cart is also purchased and awaiting its "debut".
4 - Place an oscilloscope kit (already assembled board) inside a cabinet and connect it to a computer through the sound board.
5 - Change the "standard" copper cables from my subwoofer connection to "audiophile" ones made of transparent PVC and OFC copper, also while waiting.
The list goes on, it is time to work less and enjoy more, I am one of those who think that we do not take anything "at the end of the road" ....
And all this without mentioning that lately I have been fixing the roof of my house, and yesterday I made a pending repair for a few years on my car, cleaning the carburetor,etc. etc ....🙄
You sound like me or like me when I was younger in reality Academia50, I tackled just about everything including roof repairs , put up my own TV aerials ( two ) with masthead amplifiers , still okay after 25 years .
Cant do the car though the "ruddy thing " has AI turns itself on and off ( flattened a battery a year ago) and keeps complaining it cant find my cell-phone , that would be hard as I don't own one.
Cant do the car though the "ruddy thing " has AI turns itself on and off ( flattened a battery a year ago) and keeps complaining it cant find my cell-phone , that would be hard as I don't own one.
Returning to the topic that interests the OP , I have made calculations based on Ohm's Law and came to the conclusion that the voltage drop over the input impedance of the 100 Omhs pre MF, would be:
With "classic" DL103, we have 0.3 Mv. over the 100 Ohms impedance of the pre MF input. (I only took values of R, for practical purposes as Z)
With the "improved" DL103 R we have
0.25 Mv.
This would confirm the values that Denon offers in the specs, and that they have used the typical impedance of 100 Ohms (MC) for their measurements .....
What puzzles me is this phrase: (see post 650)
DL-103R + V90-LPS = good match? - Page 2- Vinyl Engine
" Internal impedance is quite different from the 103R to the 103. 14 vs. 40.
So there's a pretty reasonable argument that the 103R should be loaded around 100 and the stock 103 around 400. "
Thoughts about this?
With "classic" DL103, we have 0.3 Mv. over the 100 Ohms impedance of the pre MF input. (I only took values of R, for practical purposes as Z)
With the "improved" DL103 R we have
0.25 Mv.
This would confirm the values that Denon offers in the specs, and that they have used the typical impedance of 100 Ohms (MC) for their measurements .....
What puzzles me is this phrase: (see post 650)
DL-103R + V90-LPS = good match? - Page 2- Vinyl Engine
" Internal impedance is quite different from the 103R to the 103. 14 vs. 40.
So there's a pretty reasonable argument that the 103R should be loaded around 100 and the stock 103 around 400. "
Thoughts about this?
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Don't worry too much about arithmetic's: there's more to it than what Kirchhoff's law can solve because of the 2 equivalent circuits, electrical & mechanical, both oscillatory and interdependent.
For the 103, start with a gain of 10x-20x, then fine tune with a 100-200R pot in place of the input resistor. This is sometimes built into some of the top end commercial pre-peamps.
For the 103, start with a gain of 10x-20x, then fine tune with a 100-200R pot in place of the input resistor. This is sometimes built into some of the top end commercial pre-peamps.
" For the 103, start with a gain of 10x-20x, then fine tune with a 100-200R pot in place of the input resistor. This is sometimes built into some of the top end commercial pre-peamps."
Hi Zung. What you say seems reasonable, but I cannot open a new pre amplifier because it would lose the warranty. Also, if the problem were excessive gain of the cartridge with respect to the input of the MF, I could insert a series resistor (not very audiophile solution) but it is the other way around, I am afraid that the gain is not enough to have a good space for the head....
Hi Zung. What you say seems reasonable, but I cannot open a new pre amplifier because it would lose the warranty. Also, if the problem were excessive gain of the cartridge with respect to the input of the MF, I could insert a series resistor (not very audiophile solution) but it is the other way around, I am afraid that the gain is not enough to have a good space for the head....
Just to be clear: the pot or the resistor is in parallel with the input. Its purpose is to damp the resonances (if any). A resistor in series with a MC is a big no-no.
As you can see, the calculations were made by Ohm's Law, just to check the load R of the DL103, as I said before.
The output voltages correspond to 100 Omhs.
If we use a higher load, there will be no problem, there are people who recommend 400 K (also mentioned and without answer) because more voltage will drop.
Kirchoff's Law says:
"At any node, the sum of the current that enters that node is equal to the sum of the current that leaves. Likewise, the algebraic sum of all the currents that pass through the node is equal to zero."
Clearly that happens at some point in the MF preamp input (why do you hate it?) But it is irrelevant to what I wanted to check.
Given your proclaimed phono amp experience, which one would you recommend for DL-103 (according to the Musical Fidelity V90-LPS price, I explained that when I opened the thread)
PS: I can't buy a preamp to test with a potentiometer and if I don't like the result, I'll send it back and voila!
Things don't work that way in world trade. I hope you understand.
The output voltages correspond to 100 Omhs.
If we use a higher load, there will be no problem, there are people who recommend 400 K (also mentioned and without answer) because more voltage will drop.
Kirchoff's Law says:
"At any node, the sum of the current that enters that node is equal to the sum of the current that leaves. Likewise, the algebraic sum of all the currents that pass through the node is equal to zero."
Clearly that happens at some point in the MF preamp input (why do you hate it?) But it is irrelevant to what I wanted to check.
Given your proclaimed phono amp experience, which one would you recommend for DL-103 (according to the Musical Fidelity V90-LPS price, I explained that when I opened the thread)
PS: I can't buy a preamp to test with a potentiometer and if I don't like the result, I'll send it back and voila!
Things don't work that way in world trade. I hope you understand.
Let me quote Passlabs:
Regarding MF, I own an A1 amp designed by the late/great Tim de Paravicini, but he had to work under such unreasonable constrains that the end result is an unreliable product that sounds worse than a vanilla Denon amp I bought used for $20. I also own a X-Can headphone amp designed by some obscure guys that refuses to sound right no matter what I try. Fare thee well MF.
A quick & dirty way to achieve this is to use "Y" (2 female 1 male) RCA adapters and solder some resistors or pots to a male RCA plug. Your ears are the final arbiters.
Regarding MF, I own an A1 amp designed by the late/great Tim de Paravicini, but he had to work under such unreasonable constrains that the end result is an unreliable product that sounds worse than a vanilla Denon amp I bought used for $20. I also own a X-Can headphone amp designed by some obscure guys that refuses to sound right no matter what I try. Fare thee well MF.
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Thank you very much for your good wishes ! 😀
"with friends like that, I don't need enemies" 🙄
"with friends like that, I don't need enemies" 🙄
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