Less and less people use analog crossovers, including me, so I was wondering about the best crossover devices when wanting to use only AES connections, which are more common in professional equipment. In other words, lets make list of Digital Audio System Processors or Digital Loudspeaker Management Systems that match this description. I will then purchase the most suitable one and then we will see how it performs compared to the traditional Minidsp devices that I have had many over the years. Minidsp of course does not have such AES equipped 4-way product available, otherwise I just might buy that one. 2-way they do have though.
Depending on your budget (they are expensive) I can personally recommend the Linea Research ASC48 and System Engineer their tool for configuring this and other devices in their product line. Danley in the U.S. at least also sells a rebranded version as the DNA SC48 (the version I actually own). I am using it as a crossover configured for AES input and two stereo 4 way analog output.
https://linea-research.co.uk/asc48/
I am very pleased with the overall performance, well suited for demanding high quality sound applications.
It is an interesting device.
https://linea-research.co.uk/asc48/
I am very pleased with the overall performance, well suited for demanding high quality sound applications.
It is an interesting device.
As you mention, AES is used a lot in the pro audio world (where I worked for almost 50 years). These days many pro audio amplifiers have DSP and crossover built right in, so the need for stand alone digital crossovers is fading fast.
Too bad, because as Kevin says, some of them are of excellent quality.
Too bad, because as Kevin says, some of them are of excellent quality.
Well I can say, it's not an end of an era, for example I bought a Powersoft X8, pretty high end amp, and to my surprise, while it is a great amp, it's filters are not 48db steep! They were between 18 and 36 depending if you set high pass or low pass settings. I tried using the amplifiers internal ones non the less, but like you can guess, there was too much overlap and the sound became muddy compared to 48db. Also stand alone crossovers that cost the same as an amp most likely are also better in sound quality, since there are many ways to mathematically calculate and different processing power needs also. There can be also differences in latency, try live mixing music with too much latency and you know it's not good. So be very careful if you plan to use only any amplifiers internal filters. On top of that configuring just one crossover device is usually easier than many amplifiers and also the user interface might be more "ergonomic" since it's the devices main function and not just some side gimmick.
kevinkr said:
Thanks for the link, even I searched for hours, I did not find that one. This is exactly why I created this topic, to make a good list of different options, so nobody else has to spend so much time on the same matter.
Linea Research ASC48 indeed looks like business.
Here are some other ones I have found. "Better Music Builder M-2" seems to be some kind of karaoke device brand but I think it might work also. It's also the cheapest one.
https://www.bettermusicbuilder.com/products/m-2-digital-audio-management/
Martin audio DX4.0, Apparently released 2018, so probably it is oldest of the four? That's a minus for me, but could be still of course very good.
https://martin-audio.com/products/electronics/dx4.0
Last but not least, recently released and probably the most expensive of the bunch.
Lab Gruppen Lake LMX 48
https://www.labgruppen.com/product.html?modelCode=0825-AAN
I noticed this line on the LMX specifications:
"Raised Cosine Equalization plus linear phase, classic, FIR crossover and Lake XP capability including dedicated FIR for array optimization and multiband/ limiter compressor for ultimate sound-shaping abilities"
How advanced is this raised cosine, is there any benefit? I am not familiar with that at all.
I think the Ultimate Preamp from Analog Precision will do what you want and then some.
https://analog-precision.com/home/pcg/
https://analog-precision.com/home/pcg/
It does not appear to have AES digital outputs like the others do. But perhaps it does have really good analog outputs though. Internal processing frequency is higher than others, 192 khz if I am not mistaken. Hard to say how big difference that is in sound quality though.
For connecting to amplifiers with analog inputs I already have this
https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm
So basically I think I get no extra benefit if the device has analog outputs...
Can any of those three versions of the preamp run Dirac without any external devices? I mean after calibrating with a computer of course.
None of the others can run Dirac so that would be a plus. Right now I am using Minidsp for it.
For connecting to amplifiers with analog inputs I already have this
https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm
So basically I think I get no extra benefit if the device has analog outputs...
Can any of those three versions of the preamp run Dirac without any external devices? I mean after calibrating with a computer of course.
None of the others can run Dirac so that would be a plus. Right now I am using Minidsp for it.
Just an update, since the Lake was the only brand new model and others being released several years ago, I tried to get the Lake but turns out they have availability issues, and it could take even half a year that I would get it, so now I will probably go with Linea.
From Linea ASC48 specs:
"Because all aspects of the DSP algorithms are designed and hand crafted in house by Linea, they are not available on products from any other manufacturer. For example, LIR linear phase crossover filters which are as easy to use as more conventional filter shapes, and have less latency than FIR filters"
"As well as the standard Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley and Hardman filters, Linear research offers a unique “Linea Impulse Response” (LIR) crossover filter which gives a Linear Phase crossover that has a constant delay regardless of frequency (unlike other types of crossover which delay different frequencies to a different extent, thus smearing the arrival time). "
However, when I checked those special filters of theirs, they are only available as 24db/oct steepness so they don't benefit me, so I guess I will be using the regular Linkwitz-Riley ones.
From Linea ASC48 specs:
"Because all aspects of the DSP algorithms are designed and hand crafted in house by Linea, they are not available on products from any other manufacturer. For example, LIR linear phase crossover filters which are as easy to use as more conventional filter shapes, and have less latency than FIR filters"
"As well as the standard Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley and Hardman filters, Linear research offers a unique “Linea Impulse Response” (LIR) crossover filter which gives a Linear Phase crossover that has a constant delay regardless of frequency (unlike other types of crossover which delay different frequencies to a different extent, thus smearing the arrival time). "
However, when I checked those special filters of theirs, they are only available as 24db/oct steepness so they don't benefit me, so I guess I will be using the regular Linkwitz-Riley ones.
There is a version of the miniDSP Flex that is AES in & out, maybe this will work?
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/flex
I already have the Minidsp that has one digital AES input and two AES connectors as output. Each connector has left and right channel, so total of four channels, only works with 2 way stereo. Do you mean there is a new version that is capable of 4 way stereo?
This is what I have
https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-studio
Your link did not show 8 channels of digital AES outputs? Maybe you need to check again.
This is what I have
https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd-studio
Your link did not show 8 channels of digital AES outputs? Maybe you need to check again.
Allright, thanks, I will give it a shot. It's true that it probably does integrate better if it is well made.
hi Machismo,
1. could you please describe clearly
2. what's your budget
3. idea : did you look at the t.amp series from Thomann ? like this one with 4 output... => https://www.thomann.de/fr/the_t.amp_quadro_500_dsp.htm
Honestly, that's an idea, I did not go thru the user manual to see if it fits your needs
4. you WANT AES as a BASIC on the digital path => +100 !
5. other idea : my little "story"
=> I bought it thru the web site of the retailer => to have a try (given that in France/EU, if not happy after a web purchase, you've got 14days to send back the product)
=> I received the 2 active-speakers => I had prepared all to compare my prev.setup vs these 2 "actives"
=> test => as my ears were used to the SQ of my passive setup, I started with the 2 new "actives"... and... from start... => my brainer was "tuned" =>
this "other idea" is :
Just some ideas & questions ; hope it helps a bit
1. could you please describe clearly
- your current setup
- what setup you want to achieve
2. what's your budget
3. idea : did you look at the t.amp series from Thomann ? like this one with 4 output... => https://www.thomann.de/fr/the_t.amp_quadro_500_dsp.htm
Honestly, that's an idea, I did not go thru the user manual to see if it fits your needs
4. you WANT AES as a BASIC on the digital path => +100 !
5. other idea : my little "story"
- I had a "passive" setup (integrated amp + passive speakers ; speakers were 3-ways ; amp+speakers retail price was around 9kEur). I brainstormed a lot how to get a better SQ... like many people like me I guess...
- I was thinking about : why not some active speakers ? like my subwoofer ! (setup = 2.1)
=> I bought it thru the web site of the retailer => to have a try (given that in France/EU, if not happy after a web purchase, you've got 14days to send back the product)
=> I received the 2 active-speakers => I had prepared all to compare my prev.setup vs these 2 "actives"
=> test => as my ears were used to the SQ of my passive setup, I started with the 2 new "actives"... and... from start... => my brainer was "tuned" =>
- I keep the actives (another league...)... I was pissed off about : "why did you stick to amp+passive speaker for so long ?"
- let's sell on the 2nd market ASAP, the integrated amp (I own it 3years) & the pair of passive speakers (I owned them 11years ! very godd but...)
this "other idea" is :
- you test a pair of "active speakers" => you compare with your current setup
- you guess how much $$ you can get from your old stuff if the "active speaker" test is ok...
Just some ideas & questions ; hope it helps a bit
You can just convert AES to SPDIF https://hosatech.com/products/digital-audio/s-pdif-interfaces/odl-312/ and use a MiniDSP.
My favorite AES input crossover includes amplifiers for a very compact solution without lots of boxes and cables everywhere. Hypex Fusion plate amplifiers. Like the three channel Hypex FusionAmp FA123 (125W+125W+100W). If you wanted to make a four way speaker, a simple passive
crossover between the mid and tweet could get it done.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-amps/hypex-fusionamp-fa123/
My favorite AES input crossover includes amplifiers for a very compact solution without lots of boxes and cables everywhere. Hypex Fusion plate amplifiers. Like the three channel Hypex FusionAmp FA123 (125W+125W+100W). If you wanted to make a four way speaker, a simple passive
crossover between the mid and tweet could get it done.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-amps/hypex-fusionamp-fa123/
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