I have an old pair of Martin Logan Requests. They have suffered some damage due to a kitten one of my kids brought home. It would jump on top of the left speaker and knock the whole thing over. At least the ESL panels have survived relatively intact.
I have a second problem in having a tone deaf wife (what can I say, she has other qualities and I love her), an architect with very minimalist sensibilities.
From her perspective, the more invisible the speaker, the better the stereo.
She also hates them sitting out 3-4 feet from the back wall.
As I don't feel all that attached to the Requests anymore, I started to think about a radical even heretical experiment, that might transform them and pacify my wife and give me an interesting story to share here and with other audiophile friends.
I propose to disassemble the Requests, mount the ESL panels in a new frame, and hang the new ESL and frames on the wall. I'll salvage as much of the woofers as possible as the cat managed to crack one of the cabinets and place the reseated woofers separately.
I know, I know, this sounds nuts, even as I write it, but why not experiment?
Disassembling the speakers doesn't seem like much of a challenge, although it will take some careful work.
I also have a pair off Pass DIY stereo 40/As so I could consider bi-amping if it would help.
I foresee two problems that maybe someone here can help me solve.
1. What's the best thing I can do to get the best possible sound from an ELS panel hung on a wall? Should I consider treating the wall with acoustic foam? Building a kind of several inch frame and filling it with dampening material? Do I need to absorb the entire back wave? You get the idea?
2. As the ESL panels will hang on a brick wall, I can't place the woofers in the same alignment with them as in the freestanding speaker, will I need to do something the delay the signal to the woofers?
Again, I don't have much to lose on this little experiment, so I hope to give it a try. I do like the idea of getting the best sound I can get from the constraints presented.
Any thoughts very much appreciated.
I have a second problem in having a tone deaf wife (what can I say, she has other qualities and I love her), an architect with very minimalist sensibilities.
From her perspective, the more invisible the speaker, the better the stereo.
She also hates them sitting out 3-4 feet from the back wall.
As I don't feel all that attached to the Requests anymore, I started to think about a radical even heretical experiment, that might transform them and pacify my wife and give me an interesting story to share here and with other audiophile friends.
I propose to disassemble the Requests, mount the ESL panels in a new frame, and hang the new ESL and frames on the wall. I'll salvage as much of the woofers as possible as the cat managed to crack one of the cabinets and place the reseated woofers separately.
I know, I know, this sounds nuts, even as I write it, but why not experiment?
Disassembling the speakers doesn't seem like much of a challenge, although it will take some careful work.
I also have a pair off Pass DIY stereo 40/As so I could consider bi-amping if it would help.
I foresee two problems that maybe someone here can help me solve.
1. What's the best thing I can do to get the best possible sound from an ELS panel hung on a wall? Should I consider treating the wall with acoustic foam? Building a kind of several inch frame and filling it with dampening material? Do I need to absorb the entire back wave? You get the idea?
2. As the ESL panels will hang on a brick wall, I can't place the woofers in the same alignment with them as in the freestanding speaker, will I need to do something the delay the signal to the woofers?
Again, I don't have much to lose on this little experiment, so I hope to give it a try. I do like the idea of getting the best sound I can get from the constraints presented.
Any thoughts very much appreciated.
You will likely have to experiment on hanging distance. I think you will find the further away from th ewall, the more coherent the soundstage and image. Try placement in a corner - most will disagree, but I would not yet rule out it sounding decent in a corner.
Since a curved panel, you can also try against the wall in the middle of the room, facing each other, like Beveridge ESLs.
But in the end, I would guess it would not quite be like 3' from wall, as designed...
Since a curved panel, you can also try against the wall in the middle of the room, facing each other, like Beveridge ESLs.
But in the end, I would guess it would not quite be like 3' from wall, as designed...
Hi,
Forget to get any good sound from that.
First, You won't get good sound from a panel, that' s mounted too close to a wall.
Second, has panel and bass integration always been THE problem with all MLs apart from the enigmatic Statements. Ripping the construction apart, placing the drivers here and there and everywhere, surely won't result in anything sounding musically.
My tip would be, to sell the MLs to someone who cares and cherishes those speakers, instead of butchering them.
Face it .... If you don't grow balls to defend Your hobby, You will end up 'bosed'.
There's no trick or room for an intermediate solution.
jauu
Calvin
Forget to get any good sound from that.
First, You won't get good sound from a panel, that' s mounted too close to a wall.
Second, has panel and bass integration always been THE problem with all MLs apart from the enigmatic Statements. Ripping the construction apart, placing the drivers here and there and everywhere, surely won't result in anything sounding musically.
My tip would be, to sell the MLs to someone who cares and cherishes those speakers, instead of butchering them.
Face it .... If you don't grow balls to defend Your hobby, You will end up 'bosed'.
There's no trick or room for an intermediate solution.
jauu
Calvin
Have you got floorboards if so I would underfloor load the esl's and the woofers, you get great bass, and the speakers will only stick out 6" from the wall. Use some wadding behind the esl and woofer.Bass is unbelievable .
Calvin ............... thanks for telling it like it is....
I work on the ML panels.... have a pr Requests here now.......youll be lucky if the bias feed dose not Fall out.......The New panels are $900...........ea...........ML got sale those panels.......an then New thay only putout 2/3s what the panels can....Just got these Requests..........$100 for the pr........i have them playing to day...reworket the panels...............But my Acoustats Kill all other speakers.........So far!
Long live Acoustats
Good luck
I work on the ML panels.... have a pr Requests here now.......youll be lucky if the bias feed dose not Fall out.......The New panels are $900...........ea...........ML got sale those panels.......an then New thay only putout 2/3s what the panels can....Just got these Requests..........$100 for the pr........i have them playing to day...reworket the panels...............But my Acoustats Kill all other speakers.........So far!
Long live Acoustats
Good luck
Most of the back wave goes under the floorboards, so you have a giant box behind the diaphragm, over 160 cubic feet in my case. If you don't have floorboards you could do the same with the cavity walls, using the space between the brick walls as your box. Had to stop using my underfloor loaded speaker as the neighbours ornaments fell of their shelves, semi-detached house can't be used you need to be detached. The bass is too great, you can feel the floorboards vibrating with the explosions on films.😱
JAMESBOS,
Very interesting idea. The building becomes the speaker cabinet.
I can't run it under the floor as while I have a wooden floor it sits directly on a massive concrete and steel floor. Actually the entire building has massive concrete and masonry (2' thick) construction. While I don't have cavities to access, I do have 12' ceilings and could build a pretty sizable cavity with the 2' thick masonry as its back. I could do a cavity/cabinet with dimensions of approximately 18"w x 6"d x 144"h which should give something just over 100 square feet (maybe even more if I could increase the depth a little, but my wife will start to resist ;-). I have a large open room for the system, 22 feet and open on the sides. My listening area sits about 8-10 feet from the back wall so this could get interesting
Thoughts?
Very interesting idea. The building becomes the speaker cabinet.
I can't run it under the floor as while I have a wooden floor it sits directly on a massive concrete and steel floor. Actually the entire building has massive concrete and masonry (2' thick) construction. While I don't have cavities to access, I do have 12' ceilings and could build a pretty sizable cavity with the 2' thick masonry as its back. I could do a cavity/cabinet with dimensions of approximately 18"w x 6"d x 144"h which should give something just over 100 square feet (maybe even more if I could increase the depth a little, but my wife will start to resist ;-). I have a large open room for the system, 22 feet and open on the sides. My listening area sits about 8-10 feet from the back wall so this could get interesting
Thoughts?
What do the front and back walls open into? Open space or into the house, if into open space you could make holes in the walls and use the outside for the boxes. Although 2' is very thick! If only I lived in a detached house with cavities, Dolby and DTS would be stupendous, no need for sub woofers!! Just like being there
Hi JAMESBOS,
Thanks for the quick responses. The wall, on which I propose to mount speakers, has a 2' thick brick outside wall, facing a garden. The back wall (same thickness) abuts a similar building. The building, unfortunately, has restrictions which prevent me from cutting or drilling holes in these wall.
Still, how large a hole would I need?
But why not build my own cavity/cabinet. Except I just realized my earlier calculations don't work out properly. 18"w x 6"d x 144"h would only give me something like 9 cubic feet, nothing like your cavernous 160!
Thanks for the quick responses. The wall, on which I propose to mount speakers, has a 2' thick brick outside wall, facing a garden. The back wall (same thickness) abuts a similar building. The building, unfortunately, has restrictions which prevent me from cutting or drilling holes in these wall.
Still, how large a hole would I need?
But why not build my own cavity/cabinet. Except I just realized my earlier calculations don't work out properly. 18"w x 6"d x 144"h would only give me something like 9 cubic feet, nothing like your cavernous 160!
my hole is about 14.5" x 5" so not big at all. Originally I used a 11" full range driver with 2 7 x 3" piezo horn speakers, so I didn't need a crossover only a variable resistor to equalize the 2 volumes, when I started building full range planars, I used ones of these in the underfloor loaded speaker replacing the original speaker surround. You could build quite a large pair of FRP onto the wall using the outside for your rather large box and there wouldn't be any cancellation with the back wave. You lucky person!!
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