After many years of using Windows laptops I intend to transition to a current model Macbook Air as my digital music source. I now play WAV files from my Windows laptop to a DAC then into an amplifier. I have a few questions for anyone with experience using a Macbook Air as a source:
1. If you play local files, what format do you use? I’m thinking about converting my WAV files to FLAC which would reduce my current total file size from 116gb to around or 70gb.
2. What music player app do you use for local files and streaming? I have used Foobar2000 and Jriver Media Center 31 & 32 and with Windows and have been happy with both. Just wondering if there are any other players for Mac OSX to consider.
3. Can the DAC/headphone out be set up to use as a DAC with line output? I have read elsewhere that the current Macbook have a very good DAC/headphone output. I’m just wondering if I could do away with a component here.
4. Does the Macbook have a Bluetooth output comparable to something like Aptx HD?
That is all I can think of for now, I may have more questions as comments come in. As always, thank you in advance for your advice!
Rick
Macbook Air
1. If you play local files, what format do you use? I’m thinking about converting my WAV files to FLAC which would reduce my current total file size from 116gb to around or 70gb.
2. What music player app do you use for local files and streaming? I have used Foobar2000 and Jriver Media Center 31 & 32 and with Windows and have been happy with both. Just wondering if there are any other players for Mac OSX to consider.
3. Can the DAC/headphone out be set up to use as a DAC with line output? I have read elsewhere that the current Macbook have a very good DAC/headphone output. I’m just wondering if I could do away with a component here.
4. Does the Macbook have a Bluetooth output comparable to something like Aptx HD?
That is all I can think of for now, I may have more questions as comments come in. As always, thank you in advance for your advice!
Rick
Macbook Air
I just use Apple Music, so not much help there, but I use a Belkin Soundform Connect as the DAC and airplay to it. The analogue output is quite low, but the quality is good. It also has optical out, but I haven’t used it. I also have some second hand AirPort Express around the house, so have multi room. All works from MacBook, iPad and iPhone
Brian
Brian
I drive my 7.1.4 ATMOS system with an M1 Mac mini. I have Apple Music, Jriver, and Audirvanna on it. Do not bother changing your file types; it is a waste of your time for no gain.
I do not use the headphone output on my Macs. I cannot comment, other than it should just work but may not be optimal.
Apple does not have Aptx HD. They have some stuff with their headphones.
I have about 8TB of music on an external 8-drive bay. Again, a desktop!
Buy the Air with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB of storage. You will thank me in the end!
There are dozens of DACs you could use. Take a look at Schiit Audio to start.
Good luck.
I do not use the headphone output on my Macs. I cannot comment, other than it should just work but may not be optimal.
Apple does not have Aptx HD. They have some stuff with their headphones.
I have about 8TB of music on an external 8-drive bay. Again, a desktop!
Buy the Air with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB of storage. You will thank me in the end!
There are dozens of DACs you could use. Take a look at Schiit Audio to start.
Good luck.
Listen to @Bobfa - Mac mini is better sounding than any laptop. The screens in laptops make them noisy.
You’d be much better off with a dedicated renderer / server though - the performance difference isn’t even close. If you want to go cheap, but very high performing, and an ability to scale upwards, try Ian Canada, but there are many other solutions out there.
You’d be much better off with a dedicated renderer / server though - the performance difference isn’t even close. If you want to go cheap, but very high performing, and an ability to scale upwards, try Ian Canada, but there are many other solutions out there.
Thanks for the replies! I was thinking of trading a Windows laptop for a Macbook but a Mac Mini could work if I can use a TV as a monitor. I could use the wireless keyboard and mouse on a lap desk seated at my recliner. The TV is located 8 feet in front of my recliner. My TV is a 32" Samsung purchased in 2017 which I need to replace. So I have two questions about a Mac Mini scenario:
1. Would there be lag time using my existing TV as a monitor?
2. If there would be lag using my old TV, what specifications do I need in a new TV to eliminate lag, if possible?
I should mention my computer use consists of internet surfing and checking email. I might listen to music doing either of these. Nothing else while streaming Netflix, etc. In other words, there is no heavy-duty multitasking going on. Audio for music and movies is two channel stereo, no surround sound, etc.
Rick
1. Would there be lag time using my existing TV as a monitor?
2. If there would be lag using my old TV, what specifications do I need in a new TV to eliminate lag, if possible?
I should mention my computer use consists of internet surfing and checking email. I might listen to music doing either of these. Nothing else while streaming Netflix, etc. In other words, there is no heavy-duty multitasking going on. Audio for music and movies is two channel stereo, no surround sound, etc.
Rick
I'm not sure why "lag time" should be an issue.
You might want to read this, to gain a little perspective:
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/12/do-bit-perfect-digital-sources-affect.html
I would definitely use the TV as a monitor if the TV doesn't introduce any audible hum like it does in my living room.
I have a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB DAC. The RPi has an HDMI video output. If I connect that to one of the HDMI Inputs on my TV, there's a terrible hum in the audio output from the USB DAC.
I'm quite sure the problem is a ground loop in my AC cord wiring, but I've been too lazy to rip everything apart and reroute all the AC power cords going from the TV, Bluray player, amplifier, turntable, phono preamp, Raspberry Pi, floor lamp, etc.
So... Just make sure your AC power cord routing is good so you don't introduce any ground loops and I don't see why using your TV as a monitor shouldn't work. It makes perfect sense to do that.
You might want to read this, to gain a little perspective:
https://archimago.blogspot.com/2023/12/do-bit-perfect-digital-sources-affect.html
I would definitely use the TV as a monitor if the TV doesn't introduce any audible hum like it does in my living room.
I have a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB DAC. The RPi has an HDMI video output. If I connect that to one of the HDMI Inputs on my TV, there's a terrible hum in the audio output from the USB DAC.
I'm quite sure the problem is a ground loop in my AC cord wiring, but I've been too lazy to rip everything apart and reroute all the AC power cords going from the TV, Bluray player, amplifier, turntable, phono preamp, Raspberry Pi, floor lamp, etc.
So... Just make sure your AC power cord routing is good so you don't introduce any ground loops and I don't see why using your TV as a monitor shouldn't work. It makes perfect sense to do that.
I recall reading about the headphone output of recent models and found one of the the articles:
ASR hp out article
The ASR article starts out about the Macbook Pro but later posts indicate the information applies to other currently available (new) Apple devices. This appears to be confirmed in the information from Apple linked below. There is also information about use of the headphone output as line out:
High-impedance headphones/line level output
Playing high sample rate
The headphone output info from Apple applies to any currently available devices I would consider. I have a Schiit Audio Modi+ DAC but would definitely try the headphone out for both headphones and line out.
I'm leaning more toward a Macbook Air and ditching my 7 year old TV. With my Dell 14" on my lap and the 32" TV eight feet in front of me, the laptop screen appears to be 50% larger, like having a 48" TV diagonal screen eight feet away. Having a Macbook Air 15" in front of me would be even better, especially with the Retina display. Scary how easy it is for me to convince myself that I want/need something......
ASR hp out article
The ASR article starts out about the Macbook Pro but later posts indicate the information applies to other currently available (new) Apple devices. This appears to be confirmed in the information from Apple linked below. There is also information about use of the headphone output as line out:
High-impedance headphones/line level output
Playing high sample rate
The headphone output info from Apple applies to any currently available devices I would consider. I have a Schiit Audio Modi+ DAC but would definitely try the headphone out for both headphones and line out.
I'm leaning more toward a Macbook Air and ditching my 7 year old TV. With my Dell 14" on my lap and the 32" TV eight feet in front of me, the laptop screen appears to be 50% larger, like having a 48" TV diagonal screen eight feet away. Having a Macbook Air 15" in front of me would be even better, especially with the Retina display. Scary how easy it is for me to convince myself that I want/need something......
I’m the furthest thing from a Mac or digital source guru of any kind.
That being said, I wanted to finally have some other means of playing music from a digital source other than a CD player and my iPhone. This was only about 5 years ago I think.
I spent a lot of time reading and searching for an Apple based solution at that time.
The first thing I’d like to share is this article discussing the quality of the audio output from an iPad Pro (I happen to have the same iPad and use it as a source in one of my secondary systems.)
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipad-pro-audio-quality.htm
He kind of makes you feel pretty foolish about pursuing external DAC options with an Apple device.
Apple offering lossless playback sort of made it a no brainer for me using the iPad like this.
However, there was other interesting information on the web including this article:
https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/how-to/how-to-build-a-music-server
It was an interesting enough idea for me to pursue as a main system “digital source”.
I haven’t read the article in a while. Somewhere in its contents (or related documentation) I found out that an earlier Mini was produced with an audio output that doubled as an optical output that could be used with an external DAC.
I found OWC which seemed to be a reputable online reseller who specialized in Mac refurb and upgrades. I had them build me one of the Minis with the optical output and maxed out in RAM and memory. I also bought a 2 TB external drive in a matching case to use with it.
The most attractive part of the project that appealed to me was that it was headless and could be controlled from an iPad used as a touchscreen.
I was able to get the system operating as promised. The sound quality was just what I was after when I paired it with a NOS TDA1541 DAC that I had built with the help and support of other members here.
I will say there were issues. First off, they didn’t replace the lithium battery in the Mini and it started generating clock errors about a year after I had it. Changing the battery is a nightmare and I almost wasted the computer doing it.
Worse than that, the Luna Display fob I purchased that allowed me to use my old iPad as a touchscreen to control the system stopped working properly after the manufacturer updated the App not that long after.
It was very frustrating to have gone through all that work and then have something like that pull the rug out from under me…progress 🤬
Anyway, I tried finding a way to get an older version of the App…no dice. They acknowledged the issue and said they plan to upgrade the App and address the issue in the future. I waited and tried newer versions…they didn’t work.
Eventually I had to resign myself to plugging the iPad into the Mini with a USB/Lightning cable. That in conjunction with the Luna fob and App allows me to use a small iPad Pro as a touchscreen control for the Mini. Not perfect but at least it works.
My understanding is that the newer iPads and Macs have finally gained the ability to do the same thing using sidecar? Though it seems the only option for an external DAC is a USB connection?
Anyway, that’s my story. Good luck with your Apple adventures.
That being said, I wanted to finally have some other means of playing music from a digital source other than a CD player and my iPhone. This was only about 5 years ago I think.
I spent a lot of time reading and searching for an Apple based solution at that time.
The first thing I’d like to share is this article discussing the quality of the audio output from an iPad Pro (I happen to have the same iPad and use it as a source in one of my secondary systems.)
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/ipad-pro-audio-quality.htm
He kind of makes you feel pretty foolish about pursuing external DAC options with an Apple device.
Apple offering lossless playback sort of made it a no brainer for me using the iPad like this.
However, there was other interesting information on the web including this article:
https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/how-to/how-to-build-a-music-server
It was an interesting enough idea for me to pursue as a main system “digital source”.
I haven’t read the article in a while. Somewhere in its contents (or related documentation) I found out that an earlier Mini was produced with an audio output that doubled as an optical output that could be used with an external DAC.
I found OWC which seemed to be a reputable online reseller who specialized in Mac refurb and upgrades. I had them build me one of the Minis with the optical output and maxed out in RAM and memory. I also bought a 2 TB external drive in a matching case to use with it.
The most attractive part of the project that appealed to me was that it was headless and could be controlled from an iPad used as a touchscreen.
I was able to get the system operating as promised. The sound quality was just what I was after when I paired it with a NOS TDA1541 DAC that I had built with the help and support of other members here.
I will say there were issues. First off, they didn’t replace the lithium battery in the Mini and it started generating clock errors about a year after I had it. Changing the battery is a nightmare and I almost wasted the computer doing it.
Worse than that, the Luna Display fob I purchased that allowed me to use my old iPad as a touchscreen to control the system stopped working properly after the manufacturer updated the App not that long after.
It was very frustrating to have gone through all that work and then have something like that pull the rug out from under me…progress 🤬
Anyway, I tried finding a way to get an older version of the App…no dice. They acknowledged the issue and said they plan to upgrade the App and address the issue in the future. I waited and tried newer versions…they didn’t work.
Eventually I had to resign myself to plugging the iPad into the Mini with a USB/Lightning cable. That in conjunction with the Luna fob and App allows me to use a small iPad Pro as a touchscreen control for the Mini. Not perfect but at least it works.
My understanding is that the newer iPads and Macs have finally gained the ability to do the same thing using sidecar? Though it seems the only option for an external DAC is a USB connection?
Anyway, that’s my story. Good luck with your Apple adventures.
I guess I should add…my debacle with using an iPad as a full function touchscreen to control the Mini (through the Luna Diplay fob) was related to the fact that although I was able to use my iPhone and/or iPad in conjunction with Apple’s remote App with no problems (even without the Airport mentioned in the PS Audio article) it did not provide any functionality for streaming Apple Radio…which I often enjoy doing because I discover new music that way.
I also was not able to manage or make any changes to my library via the remote App.
As I mentioned, newer Macs and iPads are supposed to be able to connect like this via sidecar out of the box as I understand it.
When the Luna Display was first working as it should wirelessly it was slick as hell.
The only other third party option I know of that is supposed to allow the use of an older iPad as a touchscreen wirelessly like this to control a Mac is called Duet. I haven’t tried it. It is not cheap.
To this day I don’t think Apple has equipped their remote App with the ability to play their Radio stations…unbelievable if you ask me.
P.S. I currently have a newer (2019ish?) MacBook Pro in my main system that I sometimes use to stream from. Amazingly, it actually has a mini stereo headphone/audio output (no optical). I’m still stuck with the limitations of the remote App or cuing up a Radio station manually. I will say that the sound quality is excellent.
I also was not able to manage or make any changes to my library via the remote App.
As I mentioned, newer Macs and iPads are supposed to be able to connect like this via sidecar out of the box as I understand it.
When the Luna Display was first working as it should wirelessly it was slick as hell.
The only other third party option I know of that is supposed to allow the use of an older iPad as a touchscreen wirelessly like this to control a Mac is called Duet. I haven’t tried it. It is not cheap.
To this day I don’t think Apple has equipped their remote App with the ability to play their Radio stations…unbelievable if you ask me.
P.S. I currently have a newer (2019ish?) MacBook Pro in my main system that I sometimes use to stream from. Amazingly, it actually has a mini stereo headphone/audio output (no optical). I’m still stuck with the limitations of the remote App or cuing up a Radio station manually. I will say that the sound quality is excellent.
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Do not this. By another hd instaed...
Are the wav files riped from original CDs?
Or You downloaded FLAC or MP3 files and then converted them into the wav file format?
I am the mac user, that even does not need conversion, just rename .WAV extenxsion to . AIFF
You may try for one file duplicated wav file...
I've heard a MacBook air used as a source and the sound was terrible. I'm not honestly sure if it was the MBA or the DAC (an Oppo DAC/headphone amp). Having used PC's and laptops as sources a few times I have found two sources of problems:
- Power supply AC noise which infects analog components
- USB Ground loop issues, especially with long runs with PC power on a different circuit. This can be analog or digital.
- HDMI ground loop issues (not just a PC problem)