Maybe this is one for the "Digital" section but...
I usually don't make copies of audio CDs but when I first did that I used the most expensive "special for audio blank" and copied a CD with my Asus burner. Well, shock and horror. It sounded worst that a $1 tape copied with on my first boom box. I'm not talking subtlety here. Ever since I use the crummiest CD's I can find and never encountered that deterioration of quality again. But I'm so paranoid with copied audio CD's that I'm always thinking I can hear some distortion and noise.
What are your experiences with copied audio CD's?
I usually don't make copies of audio CDs but when I first did that I used the most expensive "special for audio blank" and copied a CD with my Asus burner. Well, shock and horror. It sounded worst that a $1 tape copied with on my first boom box. I'm not talking subtlety here. Ever since I use the crummiest CD's I can find and never encountered that deterioration of quality again. But I'm so paranoid with copied audio CD's that I'm always thinking I can hear some distortion and noise.
What are your experiences with copied audio CD's?
PP,
I can't relate to the problem. When I make copies, I always listen to them and to the original and I can't hear the difference. Mind you, I'm doing it in itunes on a Mac so I can't really tell you what might be the problem, only to say that you can make excellent copies.
Cal
I can't relate to the problem. When I make copies, I always listen to them and to the original and I can't hear the difference. Mind you, I'm doing it in itunes on a Mac so I can't really tell you what might be the problem, only to say that you can make excellent copies.
Cal
Maybe your burner is no good?
Are you making a clone of the disc, and are audio settings all on high in the program?
"Special Audio" CD-Rs are a waste of money imo. Just stick with a good known brand with low error rate.
You can also try burning at a lower speed to reduce errors.
cd rating site: www.dvdrhelp.com
Are you making a clone of the disc, and are audio settings all on high in the program?
"Special Audio" CD-Rs are a waste of money imo. Just stick with a good known brand with low error rate.
You can also try burning at a lower speed to reduce errors.
cd rating site: www.dvdrhelp.com
mr_push_pull said:
At the end of the cd burning era 😉 :
Rip at low speeds with a known good CDROM/DVDROM drive that has a chipset suitable for ripping audio. Leave the pc alone while ripping.
Keep firmware of both CDROM/DVDROM drive and especially CDRW/DVDRW drive up to date as new ( as in newer than the drive itself ) media need different settings of the drive.
Be sure to use UDMA and 32 bit access in the BIOS instead of PIO mode. It would not hurt to update the BIOS before checking. When using W98 please check DMA at the Settings of the optical drives and harddisk.
Especially with mainboards with VIA/SIS chipsets: please install all drivers for the chipset. Certainly with VIA boards, they are called Hyperion !!
Use known good burning software ( Nero, Blindwrite ) and keep it up to date and use good media.
Never copy audio cds "on the fly".
Burn at low speeds ( but not at x 1 and x 2 speed ) like 4 to 8 x max. Also when you have a 52 x speed burner.
Do not open other software while copying audio cds.
Treat your cdrs with care and do not leave them in moisture environment nor in direct sunlight.
I am sure you know that a virusscanner and spyware scanner help to keep your pc clean from any anomalies that could disturb the burning process.
Now listen again.
Normally they don't. Try a 25c disk like most of us.
I have never had that problem. Some shiny company can tell you to buy audiograde CD blanks, but I have never been able to hear the difference😉 Maybe they are even worse than std. disc's? Considering the fact that a bunch of 0's and 1's has to be copi'ed,
where does that leave you? You might have a problem with your burner if this is consisting.
Steen.
I used to compalin a lot about the quality of copied cds. Always sounded to me like a couple of bits were missing after a copy. And when you only have 16 to begin with...
Then i changed drives a few times and realised that the extraction is the most important part of copying. And discovered EAC. Recently my copies sound fine; there is still a difference with the originals and one has to be careful with the blanks but generally results are very reasonable.
Then i changed drives a few times and realised that the extraction is the most important part of copying. And discovered EAC. Recently my copies sound fine; there is still a difference with the originals and one has to be careful with the blanks but generally results are very reasonable.
I always complain about having burned copies in my collection. I simple can't have them😡 Not beeing able to pull out the cover and have a little read about the music and musicians is enough to get me started yelling at someone accidentally passing😀 The pleasure is not the same as when you have the real thing. Gave up on this long ago😉 Besides, the artists have to live, somehow😉
Steen.
I don`t have much own experience in burning CD`s and I can only tell from hearsay that burning at too low speed may be as bad as burning full speed.
Wouldn`t surprise me that this indeed is true and that once more the "golden middle" way would be the best.
Humm all sounds like Digital black hole logic to me! Digital duplicates should be just that, identical duplicates. This is regardless of the phase of the moon, atmospheric pressure, ambient light, drive speed, etc. etc.
What I have noticed is a lot of players on the market, I mean a huge amount of players on the market are not 100% CDR compatible and though they can read the copied discs they do not play them very well.
That's my two cents anyway.
Anthony
What I have noticed is a lot of players on the market, I mean a huge amount of players on the market are not 100% CDR compatible and though they can read the copied discs they do not play them very well.
That's my two cents anyway.
Anthony
I don't think so, or at least my Mantra says so😉 This is not rocket science, anyway! Try a few disc's and make up your own mind🙂
If the problem keeps turning back, (at medium speed) Consider a nother cd drive.
Steen.
i'm making copies at x24 with no problems
u should use images when making an audio cd copy , that way there wount be errors
maybe u are extracting your files to mp3 format ,some software do that! check that out also
u should use images when making an audio cd copy , that way there wount be errors
maybe u are extracting your files to mp3 format ,some software do that! check that out also
Try it once. Compare cdrs burnt at 24 x and at 8 x.
What should be mostly isn't in the real world. Drive speed is an important parameter to deal with as can be found out by simple experiments. Problem is that the MP3 generation don't hear the difference ( not even the plops generated by ripping too fast ) 😉
With some CDRW drives speed has become a less important factor though. For instance Plextor Premium can burn audio very fast with excellent results.
Coulomb said:
What should be mostly isn't in the real world. Drive speed is an important parameter to deal with as can be found out by simple experiments. Problem is that the MP3 generation don't hear the difference ( not even the plops generated by ripping too fast ) 😉
With some CDRW drives speed has become a less important factor though. For instance Plextor Premium can burn audio very fast with excellent results.
I totaly agree with Jean - pauls comments. Take the extra time and do it properly or don't do it at all. Poorly duplicated CD's are an insult to the ears. Also please consider the artists- if they don't keep making money - they will not keep making music.
Recent LiteOn combo drives have faulty DAE
I was skeptical about possibly bad CD copies until last week. I bought a LiteOn 5235K combo drive for my new machine because I had good experience with LiteOn in the past. I started noticing problems after following the instructions for ripping with EAC here:
http://home-12.tiscali-business.nl/~tpm54044/
I used the EAC option "Action, Test & copy selected tracks", which does a test run on each track, computing the CRC code for the test extraction and the actual, and printing the results to a file. Secure mode was used. I've pasted in my results below. Note that it says "No errors occurred" despite the fact that four tracks show CRC mismatches!
While trying to track this down, I found this test report on a similar LiteOn combo drive that showed errors in the Nero advanced audio extraction random read test.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=8997&PageId=6
Notice the large number of errors just below the first bar graph in the report. This test can be run if you have the full-up Nero. Run the "Nero CD-DVD speed" application (CDSpeed.exe). Choose Extra, Advanced DAE Quality Test, Create Test CD and burn the test CD. Then choose Extra, Advanced DAE Quality Test, Run Test to run the test. My test results are shown below the EAC extraction report. Notice there's lots of read errors too (851875 of them!).
I then did a rip of the same CD about five times with a different drive, my LiteOn DVD burner. It got perfect CRC matches every time. After that, I ran the Nero Advanced DAE Quality Test on the DVD burner. It showed zero errors in both sequential and random reads.
I conclude the following:
1) Failure in the Nero Advanced DAE Quality Tests correlates with mismatched CRC codes when ripping with EAC using the test and verify method, even if the secure mode of EAC is used.
2) EAC will still say "No Errors Occurred" even when CRC mismatches exist and even when secure mode is used.
I ended up getting a new combo drive, a slightly more recent version of the drive reviewed here:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=9565]
These cost $33.50 from newegg, and pass level 5 of the CD-Check Test Disc, so they should be very good for recovering badly scratched CDs.
I rip to disk with the EAC "Test & copy selected tracks", and manually compare the CRC codes. Then I create an audio CD compilation with Nero. I select all tracks but the first, choose "Properties" and set the "Pause" value to zero to prevent Nero from inserting silence where it doesn't belong. Then I burn the CD.
Andy
===================================
EAC extraction report
===================================
EAC extraction logfile from 14. February 2005, 18:23 for CD
Unknown Artist / Unknown Title
Used drive : LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-5235K Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes
Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo
Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface
Track 1
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\01 - Track01.wav
Peak level 86.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 45243BD8
Copy CRC 45243BD8
Copy OK
Track 2
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\02 - Track02.wav
Peak level 64.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CB1A4C65
Copy CRC CB1A4C65
Copy OK
Track 3
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\03 - Track03.wav
Peak level 71.0 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 70CDA138
Copy CRC 68CAC57B
Copy OK
Track 4
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\04 - Track04.wav
Peak level 77.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2BD297CB
Copy CRC 2BD297CB
Copy OK
Track 5
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\05 - Track05.wav
Peak level 59.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7917F369
Copy CRC 7917F369
Copy OK
Track 6
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\06 - Track06.wav
Peak level 86.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 20A08979
Copy CRC 20A08979
Copy OK
Track 7
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\07 - Track07.wav
Peak level 75.8 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 7ED723ED
Copy CRC 455E09CC
Copy OK
Track 8
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\08 - Track08.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7C132F6C
Copy CRC 7C132F6C
Copy OK
Track 9
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\09 - Track09.wav
Peak level 88.9 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC EA6D36BE
Copy CRC D56CBBC0
Copy OK
Track 10
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\10 - Track10.wav
Peak level 73.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0EC87A76
Copy CRC 847ED00F
Copy OK
Track 11
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\11 - Track11.wav
Peak level 88.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E674CD61
Copy CRC E674CD61
Copy OK
Track 12
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\12 - Track12.wav
Peak level 82.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 61195800
Copy CRC 61195800
Copy OK
Track 13
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\13 - Track13.wav
Peak level 69.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 34EFF3C7
Copy CRC 34EFF3C7
Copy OK
Track 14
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\14 - Track14.wav
Peak level 74.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1550AA5C
Copy CRC 1550AA5C
Copy OK
No errors occured
End of status report
===================================
Nero Advanced DAE test results
===================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Random Read Test
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Average Access Time: 122 ms
Data errors: 851875
Sync errors: 0
Total Data Errors: 851875
Total Sync Errors: 0
Quality Score: 75.0
I was skeptical about possibly bad CD copies until last week. I bought a LiteOn 5235K combo drive for my new machine because I had good experience with LiteOn in the past. I started noticing problems after following the instructions for ripping with EAC here:
http://home-12.tiscali-business.nl/~tpm54044/
I used the EAC option "Action, Test & copy selected tracks", which does a test run on each track, computing the CRC code for the test extraction and the actual, and printing the results to a file. Secure mode was used. I've pasted in my results below. Note that it says "No errors occurred" despite the fact that four tracks show CRC mismatches!
While trying to track this down, I found this test report on a similar LiteOn combo drive that showed errors in the Nero advanced audio extraction random read test.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=8997&PageId=6
Notice the large number of errors just below the first bar graph in the report. This test can be run if you have the full-up Nero. Run the "Nero CD-DVD speed" application (CDSpeed.exe). Choose Extra, Advanced DAE Quality Test, Create Test CD and burn the test CD. Then choose Extra, Advanced DAE Quality Test, Run Test to run the test. My test results are shown below the EAC extraction report. Notice there's lots of read errors too (851875 of them!).
I then did a rip of the same CD about five times with a different drive, my LiteOn DVD burner. It got perfect CRC matches every time. After that, I ran the Nero Advanced DAE Quality Test on the DVD burner. It showed zero errors in both sequential and random reads.
I conclude the following:
1) Failure in the Nero Advanced DAE Quality Tests correlates with mismatched CRC codes when ripping with EAC using the test and verify method, even if the secure mode of EAC is used.
2) EAC will still say "No Errors Occurred" even when CRC mismatches exist and even when secure mode is used.
I ended up getting a new combo drive, a slightly more recent version of the drive reviewed here:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=9565]
These cost $33.50 from newegg, and pass level 5 of the CD-Check Test Disc, so they should be very good for recovering badly scratched CDs.
I rip to disk with the EAC "Test & copy selected tracks", and manually compare the CRC codes. Then I create an audio CD compilation with Nero. I select all tracks but the first, choose "Properties" and set the "Pause" value to zero to prevent Nero from inserting silence where it doesn't belong. Then I burn the CD.
Andy
===================================
EAC extraction report
===================================
EAC extraction logfile from 14. February 2005, 18:23 for CD
Unknown Artist / Unknown Title
Used drive : LITE-ON COMBO SOHC-5235K Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes
Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo
Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface
Track 1
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\01 - Track01.wav
Peak level 86.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 45243BD8
Copy CRC 45243BD8
Copy OK
Track 2
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\02 - Track02.wav
Peak level 64.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CB1A4C65
Copy CRC CB1A4C65
Copy OK
Track 3
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\03 - Track03.wav
Peak level 71.0 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 70CDA138
Copy CRC 68CAC57B
Copy OK
Track 4
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\04 - Track04.wav
Peak level 77.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2BD297CB
Copy CRC 2BD297CB
Copy OK
Track 5
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\05 - Track05.wav
Peak level 59.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7917F369
Copy CRC 7917F369
Copy OK
Track 6
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\06 - Track06.wav
Peak level 86.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 20A08979
Copy CRC 20A08979
Copy OK
Track 7
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\07 - Track07.wav
Peak level 75.8 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 7ED723ED
Copy CRC 455E09CC
Copy OK
Track 8
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\08 - Track08.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7C132F6C
Copy CRC 7C132F6C
Copy OK
Track 9
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\09 - Track09.wav
Peak level 88.9 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC EA6D36BE
Copy CRC D56CBBC0
Copy OK
Track 10
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\10 - Track10.wav
Peak level 73.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0EC87A76
Copy CRC 847ED00F
Copy OK
Track 11
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\11 - Track11.wav
Peak level 88.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E674CD61
Copy CRC E674CD61
Copy OK
Track 12
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\12 - Track12.wav
Peak level 82.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 61195800
Copy CRC 61195800
Copy OK
Track 13
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\13 - Track13.wav
Peak level 69.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 34EFF3C7
Copy CRC 34EFF3C7
Copy OK
Track 14
Filename D:\Document Files\My Music\Rips\Unknown Artist - Unknown Title ()\14 - Track14.wav
Peak level 74.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1550AA5C
Copy CRC 1550AA5C
Copy OK
No errors occured
End of status report
===================================
Nero Advanced DAE test results
===================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Random Read Test
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Average Access Time: 122 ms
Data errors: 851875
Sync errors: 0
Total Data Errors: 851875
Total Sync Errors: 0
Quality Score: 75.0
i think if u making images there wont be errors because the cd is copied as "0" and "1" and not as audio .
my friend got a PSone game console that reads copied cds , he asked me to make him a copy of a game , i burned it at x24 and the game didnt work , he told me that he read somewhere that u should burn at very low speeds , so i did at x2 and the game worked .I have no idea why🙄
my friend got a PSone game console that reads copied cds , he asked me to make him a copy of a game , i burned it at x24 and the game didnt work , he told me that he read somewhere that u should burn at very low speeds , so i did at x2 and the game worked .I have no idea why🙄
That info contradicts the info in post #12.
It is a fundamental misunderstanding to think audio on cdrs is not 0 and 1. I am pretty sure it is not analog signal that is written on cdrs 😉
Well, in the end everything is analog but that is another discussion.
It is a fundamental misunderstanding to think audio on cdrs is not 0 and 1. I am pretty sure it is not analog signal that is written on cdrs 😉
Well, in the end everything is analog but that is another discussion.
The reason I posted the link is that I believe speed is very important. That is, you don't want the burner to stop and restart during burning to prevent buffer overrun. It works well for data, but not music. In short, the better the burner and the bigger the buffer the faster you can burn without errors.
The sound of any recorded CD can not contain more noise than the original. If the recording goes wrong, you will hear ticking and/or plopping sounds. This happens when your player can not decypher the code, if it can't tell a 0 from a 1. Except for these possible ticks and plops, the sound from a recorded cd cd is identical to the original
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