You'd be hard pushed to find an active ATC over 40 years old as they didn't start making active speakers until the 80s.
Certainly true for the technique of 1990. But not automatically appropriate nowadays. One pro aspect for active monitors is the absence of interconnects managed by the customer - with broken cables another source of failures. Keeping this in mind, the active monitor solves an old problem of class d-amps: These do not need to be short circuit proof anymore, because short circuits are not to expected anyway.
I use a pair of Philips 22AH587 from 1980. Three power amplifiers per speaker, with servo feedback on the woofers. They needed their capacitors replaced once, just like any power amplifier of that age. Apart from that, they are still excellent and the deep, undistorted bass from such small speakers is still impressive.
Hi Bill,
Within reason, the connections have the highest resistance. Bulk wire resistance is very low.
Signal input levels to the amplifiers can be in the mV region. Pretty low, and these are at normally higher impedances.If you run a phono level signal into an amplifier input, it is audible. That's the fine detail everyone loves. WHat I am getting at is tha noise becomes a concern here in most systems.
I took a two floor recording studio from balanced to single ended. Solved all their problems. However that is the exception, not the rule. Recording studios mostly used balanced to avoid ground loops and issues. Microphones are the main need for a balanced line running long distances. The main point I am making i that you really are further ahead running signals short distances and speaker level signals can afford 40' of wire without too many issues. You would want to run the most robust signal the farthest. That means the speaker wire.
Balanced is more robust, however the cables and connectors cost a lot more and you do have a balancing and unbalancing circuibt in between.
Within reason, the connections have the highest resistance. Bulk wire resistance is very low.
Signal input levels to the amplifiers can be in the mV region. Pretty low, and these are at normally higher impedances.If you run a phono level signal into an amplifier input, it is audible. That's the fine detail everyone loves. WHat I am getting at is tha noise becomes a concern here in most systems.
I took a two floor recording studio from balanced to single ended. Solved all their problems. However that is the exception, not the rule. Recording studios mostly used balanced to avoid ground loops and issues. Microphones are the main need for a balanced line running long distances. The main point I am making i that you really are further ahead running signals short distances and speaker level signals can afford 40' of wire without too many issues. You would want to run the most robust signal the farthest. That means the speaker wire.
Balanced is more robust, however the cables and connectors cost a lot more and you do have a balancing and unbalancing circuibt in between.
I've reflowed so so many solder joints....those circular cracks we've all found, so introduce constant vibration into the mix & you have a persistent source of failure. Not to mention all the "cost cutting" board architecture they use.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
Yes, and lets not forget that suspending those speaker wires on those cute little above-floor bridges keeps the audio more pure.
That is unfortunately a trend, instead of using individual amps large enough for each instrument they
mix them all in a pathetic mixer and amplifies with junk to equally pathetic speakers aka PA-systems.
I do remeber jimi hendrix cream yardbirds etc that used their own individual amps. Jimi hendrix used
2 staples of 200w marchal towers, and of course he could use the speaker<> guitar feedback to
keep tones play.
It was better in the old days when knowledge was king.
But speaker cables can introduce oscillations in the amplifier if not terminated properly or you can have transmission line effects messing up your imaging (one theoretical the other real if you chose magic cables). For me it's packaging and space that put the amps near the speakers.
I dunno, DB series connectors are cheap, robust (used in space) and do the job. And decent balanced cable is what 60c a foot? In a world where people will pay $30 a pop for fancy RCA connectors with a straight face a couple of 8 legs to do the balanced to SE conversion seems a sensible use of funds. One day I intend to have a preamp that swings +/-50 volts and a unity gain power amp. First watt F4 owners seem to like it this way. That's the joy of DIY.
I thought this was going to be a trick question, i.e.: In a passive box, it's usually the woofer choke innit?
I designed one. If you make R23 and R28 0R, this will make 69 VRMS from 1 VRMS input.
Works well, and won't break the bank.
The PCB could be used for single ended stereo or balanced mono.
Attachments
It's a philosophical question. For me it's a trade-off that's worthwhile.
Some people have no problems with added complexity, others do.
I'm an IT guy, I use a multi gigahertz computer to play a CD. That might be akin to using a spaceship to cross the road, but if a space ship is cheaper than a pair of shoes, I can live with that.
Hi Bill,
I have never seen a normal speaker wire cause oscillation in an amplifier - ever. That's assuming a normal quality amplifier and non-stupid wire. So that concern is out the window. Reflections? Not at audio frequencies, you know better than that.
I wouldn't use a DB9 for those connections. Standard balanced cable is too heavy and that is your impedance advantage. XLR is it accepted connection for this, so let's confine our discussion to accepted inductry standards shall we? Otherwise we are off in the weeds with undefined and unproved setups. Yes, yours may work fine in your enviroment. That is all we know. Then you have your single-ended to balanced line converters. The chips are pretty good and have pretty good CMRR. When you go descrete your CMRR normally dives and THD goes up. That is typical and I have done design work in this area.
Wire costs ... sure we can pick the least expensive in one and compare to more expensive in another. So, what then is your point? You are simply mudding the waters here for no purpose.
DIY. Well, there is something called "best practices", and they exist for a reason. Sure you can get away with "other" in some applications, but the standards always work. They tend to work the best, and are pretty much defined in performance. I'm in the industry, so I will speak from knowing the standards and best practices.
One thing should hav caught everyone's attention. Most equipment is single-ended in design internally, very few are balanced (and they will be 1.414 x as noisy at best compared to single-ended). So what does this mean? It means very simply that there is another device in between the output of your excellent "whatever" and your amplifiers or electronic crossover. Transformers will work, electronic balancing adpater circuits have strong advantages. But these are in between and add distortion varying on type and quality. Anyone catch and think of this by chance?
-Chris
I have never seen a normal speaker wire cause oscillation in an amplifier - ever. That's assuming a normal quality amplifier and non-stupid wire. So that concern is out the window. Reflections? Not at audio frequencies, you know better than that.
I wouldn't use a DB9 for those connections. Standard balanced cable is too heavy and that is your impedance advantage. XLR is it accepted connection for this, so let's confine our discussion to accepted inductry standards shall we? Otherwise we are off in the weeds with undefined and unproved setups. Yes, yours may work fine in your enviroment. That is all we know. Then you have your single-ended to balanced line converters. The chips are pretty good and have pretty good CMRR. When you go descrete your CMRR normally dives and THD goes up. That is typical and I have done design work in this area.
Wire costs ... sure we can pick the least expensive in one and compare to more expensive in another. So, what then is your point? You are simply mudding the waters here for no purpose.
DIY. Well, there is something called "best practices", and they exist for a reason. Sure you can get away with "other" in some applications, but the standards always work. They tend to work the best, and are pretty much defined in performance. I'm in the industry, so I will speak from knowing the standards and best practices.
One thing should hav caught everyone's attention. Most equipment is single-ended in design internally, very few are balanced (and they will be 1.414 x as noisy at best compared to single-ended). So what does this mean? It means very simply that there is another device in between the output of your excellent "whatever" and your amplifiers or electronic crossover. Transformers will work, electronic balancing adpater circuits have strong advantages. But these are in between and add distortion varying on type and quality. Anyone catch and think of this by chance?
-Chris
Hi ariendj,
Argue it if you want. IT people can be like that. I've been certified on VoIP since 2005 and have had to suffer through many encounters with IT folks who "know better". Nope, they do not. Someone who is good is good, most are not. I come from the telecom world where stuff must work all the time, and a stable system is gold. Hint: I love assigned IP addresses. Cuts down network traffic big time on system start-up. You also know where stuff is and IP addresses don't get assigned twice by the router or server. I make restricted DHCP ranges.
No, it is a fact, failure rates are much higher on average. If you were in service you would know this without even having to think about it. However it is easier for the consumer (think DHCP) and people are lazy. They take the easy and cheapest way out every time. Then they cry when it hurts them.
I use streamers for music, maybe more expensive but higher quality output (unless you just blew your budget with a real sound card), do not get upgraded often and the UI doesn't often change. That and the upgrade path doesn't obsolete your gear. Oh, did I mention obsolescence? Windows comes to mind along with all the horrors that brings. I'm putting my stuff back on Fedora, solid, stable, consistent UI ... on and on. Requires a brain to use. Still use streamers. Most importnat it is my hardware, not someone in Redmont.
Argue it if you want. IT people can be like that. I've been certified on VoIP since 2005 and have had to suffer through many encounters with IT folks who "know better". Nope, they do not. Someone who is good is good, most are not. I come from the telecom world where stuff must work all the time, and a stable system is gold. Hint: I love assigned IP addresses. Cuts down network traffic big time on system start-up. You also know where stuff is and IP addresses don't get assigned twice by the router or server. I make restricted DHCP ranges.
No, it is a fact, failure rates are much higher on average. If you were in service you would know this without even having to think about it. However it is easier for the consumer (think DHCP) and people are lazy. They take the easy and cheapest way out every time. Then they cry when it hurts them.
I use streamers for music, maybe more expensive but higher quality output (unless you just blew your budget with a real sound card), do not get upgraded often and the UI doesn't often change. That and the upgrade path doesn't obsolete your gear. Oh, did I mention obsolescence? Windows comes to mind along with all the horrors that brings. I'm putting my stuff back on Fedora, solid, stable, consistent UI ... on and on. Requires a brain to use. Still use streamers. Most importnat it is my hardware, not someone in Redmont.
Hey @anatech, I'm not agrueing for anything but for everyone to do as they please. I don't claim to know better. About anything at all. You might read that into my post, but that's just not what I wrote.
I don't need the lecture and I'm amused about your incorrect assumptions about me. You don't know me, please don't act like you do.
I don't need the lecture and I'm amused about your incorrect assumptions about me. You don't know me, please don't act like you do.
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