Hello! I recently acquired some Morel-Renaissance speaker components and boxes and wanted to know if anyone had historical specs on these models:
- Duet (early bass reflex enclosure, not the TL enclosure)
- 201.3 small ported enclosure
- Enigma, large 3 way tower.
Any info, schematics, catalogs, etc would be appreciated.
Thanks!
- Duet (early bass reflex enclosure, not the TL enclosure)
- 201.3 small ported enclosure
- Enigma, large 3 way tower.
Any info, schematics, catalogs, etc would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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baco,
don't know the answers you're looking for but you have
some more than fine drivers to build high quality
speakers. IMO it's worth risking a diy adventure and
there is info to start with in sticky thread.
I think you could get away with mw220 and tweets
to make a nice 2 way, crossed somewhat lower than
usual and not to mention 3 way with 1076, 75 and 30.
don't know the answers you're looking for but you have
some more than fine drivers to build high quality
speakers. IMO it's worth risking a diy adventure and
there is info to start with in sticky thread.
I think you could get away with mw220 and tweets
to make a nice 2 way, crossed somewhat lower than
usual and not to mention 3 way with 1076, 75 and 30.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree, I lucked out with the drivers. I had always wanted to work with Morel from when I started doing DIY boxes as a teenager in the 90s. Now I have some nice components to play around with. I also have a couple Seas, Philips and Audax tweeters to play around with. Should be fun.
As an update, the Enigma towers were released in 1996/1997 and retailed for $1800/pair. Frequency response of 32Hz to 25000Hz. Only 30 pair were made. Hand made in Massachusetts.
Baco99, there's a lot of people here who LIKE Morel bass units. 🙂
Being well damped polymer cones, they don't need a lot of filtering, often a simple bass coil around 1.5-2mH will suffice.
Treble filters are a bit more variable, and depend on whether you are matching to a 6" or 8" unit. But I would think second or third order will do. We are probably looking at 3kHz crossover, so think 4uF and 0.25mH and some attenuation.
Bass alignment is a question of the Thiel-Small parameters, of course. But I'd certainly enjoy having a go. Or helping.
But the devil is in the detail, like exact drivers. So far you are a bit vague.
Being well damped polymer cones, they don't need a lot of filtering, often a simple bass coil around 1.5-2mH will suffice.
Treble filters are a bit more variable, and depend on whether you are matching to a 6" or 8" unit. But I would think second or third order will do. We are probably looking at 3kHz crossover, so think 4uF and 0.25mH and some attenuation.
Bass alignment is a question of the Thiel-Small parameters, of course. But I'd certainly enjoy having a go. Or helping.
But the devil is in the detail, like exact drivers. So far you are a bit vague.
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The Enigma use the MDT30 1.1" soft dome tweeter, MDM75 3" soft dome midrange, and MW1076 treated paper cone 10" woofer. I have been able to find the proper original drivers and the crossovers were still in the boxes. The sound is impeccable. Solid, high, deep bass. The MDM75 midrange is nothing short of miraculous. And the high end superb.
The Duets use the MDT33se 1.1" soft dome tweeter and MW167 woofer in a 2-way design. They retail currently for $1800 in black or $2500 in real Cherry. I don't know about the crossover design. Apparently the sealed version I have are very early and pretty rare. Shortly after production in the early 1990s, they switched to a small slotted port in the rear. The woofer changed also over the years from the MW164 to the MW167. I'm currently using my boxes with an MDT30 tweeter and HU621 woofer with a custom crossover. Project still in progress. See below.
The 201.3 is a small ported box which looks like it uses the MDT29 tweeter and MW164 woofer. The crossover is essentially non existent, a cap and resistor. The tweeter is crossed over at 2800 Hz with a 12 dB slope and the woofer is meant to roll off above 2000 Hz naturally. I imagine this creates a big bump in the midrange, but I don't know for sure.
What I am still looking for are marketing materials, advertisements, promotional materials or owner's manuals. So far Renaissance in MA has been less than helpful after several requests.
The Duets use the MDT33se 1.1" soft dome tweeter and MW167 woofer in a 2-way design. They retail currently for $1800 in black or $2500 in real Cherry. I don't know about the crossover design. Apparently the sealed version I have are very early and pretty rare. Shortly after production in the early 1990s, they switched to a small slotted port in the rear. The woofer changed also over the years from the MW164 to the MW167. I'm currently using my boxes with an MDT30 tweeter and HU621 woofer with a custom crossover. Project still in progress. See below.
The 201.3 is a small ported box which looks like it uses the MDT29 tweeter and MW164 woofer. The crossover is essentially non existent, a cap and resistor. The tweeter is crossed over at 2800 Hz with a 12 dB slope and the woofer is meant to roll off above 2000 Hz naturally. I imagine this creates a big bump in the midrange, but I don't know for sure.
What I am still looking for are marketing materials, advertisements, promotional materials or owner's manuals. So far Renaissance in MA has been less than helpful after several requests.
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Mind you, the whole Renaissance/Morel of Israel is a can of worms, but they are no longer affiliated with each other. Renaissance now or least did have their own supply of unique drivers that were not standard Israel stock. Their website shows these.
FWIW- the MSD56 mid-dome from then 'Morel-USA', I do know measured higher in HD than the Morel units from Israel, and was not that great.
I personally think you'll find better results using genuine Morel-Israel products anyway, so you are using the better stuff at the moment.
Later,
Wolf
FWIW- the MSD56 mid-dome from then 'Morel-USA', I do know measured higher in HD than the Morel units from Israel, and was not that great.
I personally think you'll find better results using genuine Morel-Israel products anyway, so you are using the better stuff at the moment.
Later,
Wolf
Agree, it's a complicated mess. However, I assure you that all of the drivers I am using are genuine and either made in Israel or the UK
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If you are using genuine Morel products, then why are you asking about products that aren't? They really don't apply to each other.
Wolf
Wolf
I admit, I don't understand the question. I confirmed with Mikhael that the Enigma uses the drivers indicated above, which are all Morel drivers and all predate the era where he started sourcing from other vendors.
Essentially, I asked the original question, found my own answer, and I am posting here for the benefit of others
Also, my faux-Duets are using drivers that are admittedly not matching the original spec. But this is a DIY forum, so I am experimenting.
That's still allowed right?
Also, still looking for any marketing materials or brochures on these...
Essentially, I asked the original question, found my own answer, and I am posting here for the benefit of others
Also, my faux-Duets are using drivers that are admittedly not matching the original spec. But this is a DIY forum, so I am experimenting.
That's still allowed right?
Also, still looking for any marketing materials or brochures on these...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Enigma tower.
I added the mesh grills to the midrange to protect it. The grills are also Morel and came from a set of dead CDM75.
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Likely- I've never seen that woofer before.
That's what I was referring to. Seemed you were asking about old Ren' products, and using drivers that didn't match and then using supposedly the same xovers as the old, so- you see why I thought that.
Their website is still valid, are they on there?
Good luck!
Wolf
Here's a shot of the MW1076 woofer before it went in. Very similar to the MW1075 and MW1077, but with a ribbed, treated paper cone.
From what I can tell, this version of the 10" single voice coil woofer was rarely used. According to Madisound rarely sold. But it is correct for this speaker.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
From what I can tell, this version of the 10" single voice coil woofer was rarely used. According to Madisound rarely sold. But it is correct for this speaker.
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Also, the faux-Duet crossover is not a copy of the Duet crossover. In fact, I'm curious how it compares to an actual Duet crossover. Someone designed it for me based on the drivers I am using and I assembled it on a terminal block that I pulled from a damaged Morel MLP501 cabinet.
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Might also help that my original post was sent during the excitement of finding all this stuff and before actually committing to buying it and taking it all home.
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More images
These are the Enigma factory crossovers. I did not modify these.
Close up of terminal cup with really nice binding posts.
These are the Enigma factory crossovers. I did not modify these.
Close up of terminal cup with really nice binding posts.
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Here are some pictures of the first listen. I replaced the 4.7 ohm resistor in the crossover with two 2.2 ohm in parallel so the high end is attenuated much less. They sound much more open now. Can't wait to refinish the cabs and get them looking as great as they sound!
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I resurrected this topic because I am building A Renaissance Duet Clone
Any information about the cabinet measurements or the crossover will be highly appreciated!
Any information about the cabinet measurements or the crossover will be highly appreciated!
I actually bought and carried the Duet with so-called short TL to Beijing. Also the Joseph RM7XL. Both just fitted airline baggage limits. Unfortunately neither pair satisfied so they just sat idle maybe fifteen years. Now that I have diy'ed a bit maybe I can mod them... too many projects.
Duet TL was quite boomy and not detailed in comparison to my everyday (for ten years) Monitor Audio Studio speakers.
If you want Duet TL shape & internal dimensions & XO, I can open one up and measure -- but not this week or next (they are at my retreat).
Duet TL was quite boomy and not detailed in comparison to my everyday (for ten years) Monitor Audio Studio speakers.
If you want Duet TL shape & internal dimensions & XO, I can open one up and measure -- but not this week or next (they are at my retreat).
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