Hertz System Design - asking for Feedback please

[VICGC]

Hi There;

I am considering the following system but am not well versed in car audio and I was hoping that I can please get some comments in terms of whether I have the right combination of amplifiers and speaker types and sizes. For example, are these amplifiers a good match for the speakers?

For context, I plan to put this in a 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe, using my stock ‘premium’ Head Unit, connecting to a ‘JBL MS-8’ digital signal processor (MS-8 | Car Audio DSP, Powered Digital Sound Processor).

OPTION #1 (Passive front components)
Front and Back Speakers and Amplifier
• Front: HERTZ HSK 165XL (6.5” components): HSK 165 XL - Hertz HiEnergy car audio speakers system (RMS = 150w)
• Back: HERTZ HCX 165 (6.5” Coaxial): HCX 165 - Hertz Hi-Energy car audio coaxial (RMS = 125w)
• Amplifier: HERTZ HDP 4: HDP 4 - Hertz car audio amplifiers (RMS = 4 Ch 150 W x 4 (4Ω))
Subwoofers and Amplifier
• Subwoofers: HERTZ ES 300.5 (two 12” subs): ES 300.5 - Hertz Energy car audio subwoofers
• Sub Box: BASSWORX (WBS 212): Wedge Back Series - Bassworx
• Amplifier: HERTZ HDP 1: HDP 1 - Hertz car audio amplifiers (RMS = 1 Ch 600 W x 1 (4Ω))

OPTION #2 (Active front components)
• Everything is the same as above except:
o Remove HERTZ HSK 165XL passive crossover and run the tweeters on a separate JBLMS* channel, powered with a HERTZ HCP 2: Hertz HCP 2 car audio amplifier (RMS = 2 Ch: 65 W x 2 (4Ω))

What do you think – please let me know whether I am going to run into any trouble with OPTION #1 (do i have the righ amp/speaker pairings?). Also, would you folks recommend OPTION #2 over OPTION# 1?

Thank you for any advice you can please provide!
Paul

 

[rafcio363]

Why you choosen only Hertz parts?

 

[VICGC]

Thank you for any feedback,

Why you choosen only Hertz parts?

Hi - I had a dealer put this all together, packaged together for a decent discounted price. I am just learning about all this cool car audio stuff. My sense was that the Hertz speakers are pretty decent choice, but I am not sure about the amps, etc.. Also, I was concerned that the 2 12" subwoofers and front 165XLs might not get enough power with this set up?

I still have opportunity to change, but would require returning some equipment and potentially losing the savings.

Im not looking to compete or anything like that, but I do want to find a real nice sound for my car. I am really interested in hearing from the experts in terms of whether you see any red-flags with option 1 and/or option 2?

Thank you for any feedback,
Paul

 

[Cr@sh]

Hertz definitely makes quality stuff. But really, this stuff is more for the competitor in my opinion. It was proven years ago that the human ear cannot hear the difference up to 4% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) done in a blind test of 100 people. This equipment is more for a meter being put in the car and seeing a high score from it. You can get incredible sound using Rockford, Pioneer and so on components and amps for way less money. Even going with the lesser made Hertz would be ideal.

 

[freijnen]

Don't bother with back speakers. Just front speakers, and a sub in the back gives better results.
Passive or active is a matter of taste. If you like to fiddle around with the settings yourself to get the most out of your system, go active. You have way more possibility's to adjust everything.
I would go with option 2, but without the back speakers and the HDP4 amp powering the front components.
I do not have enough information to determine if the subwoofers and the enclosure is a good combination. But if your dealer knows his stuff it should be ok. Could be more tuned toward massive bas power instead of sound quality however...
If your goal is pure sound quality at moderate sound levels, you should get something else. I prefer a single 12 inch sub in a closed enclosure, but that is just me.
That HDP1 amp is capable of 2 ohm operation so it can power 2 x 4 ohm subs with 1000 W RMS. So that is a good match.

 

[VICGC]

Hi - I want to thank you for the advice. You have helped me determine a few things:

- My sense is that I have may have gone overboard, considering I am really looking for something with awesome sound quality at only moderate levels. With that said,ths system will still give me that right?

- I am going to take back the rear HCX 165 coaxial speakers and run the front tweeter/woofer on separate channels using the JBLMS8 for an active crossover powered by the HDP 4

- I would still like to keep the Rear 'stock premium' 20-25 RMS coaxials as filler/ambiance. I would like to use the JBLMS8 to amplify these two Rears and also the 'stock premium' Center channel. I believe jblms8 is 18 rms per channel, so I think this works.

I will look into the box volume and subwoofer specs and get back to you soon. In the meantime, I am going to do some research on this forum in terms of the 2ohm versus 4ohm subwoofer thing.

Thanks again,
Paul

 

[freijnen]

You're welcome,

This system can give you awesome sound quality, if the installation and setup is done right. Don't forget, the quality of the installation and setup is way more important for the end result then what components you choose.

Adding a center channel will probably not improve the sound quality. But if you have the stuff, it doesn't hurt to try. Same for the rear filler. Maybe run the rears in mono and bandpassed so they only play mid range frequenties will give some more ambiance and room in the sound. Also give them some delay in that case.

For the subs, the manufactor advise for this sub in a sealed enclosure is 29 liters per sub. If you use 2 subs with 4 ohm each, wire them in parallel so you get a 2 ohm load on your amp.

 

[VICGC]

Nice, that's very reassuring. I keep reading that the jblms8 like to run with active front tweets/mids, and that rears can add value. The jblms8 also has a Logic 7 function I believe that uses the center channel. I also believe that I can just turn down the rear and centers if I choose - I think it's worth wiring them in and experimenting.

I am looking at the manual for the ES 300.5 subwoofer. It has two ratings for Vcc: the 'dimension' rating is 20 litres but the 'performance' rating is 29. For dual subwoofers that is a range of 40 to 58.

The bassworx sealed dual 12" box I have is 50 litres, so I am hoping that means my box is in the middle of the range and is likely just fine - or am I interpreting this wrong?

 

[freijnen]

50 liter for a sealed enclosure for 2 subs should be fine. You can allways ad some filling wool to make the enclosure virtually bigger of ad some solid filling to make it smaller. That way you can tune your subwoofer box performance.

 

[VICGC]

filler

Thats excellent. The box fits like a glove in my trunk and I would like to try and keep it. There seems to be options for filling - name brand stuff is expensive, and some folks are suggesting polyfill from a craft store is cheaper and does the same job. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I did a bunch of research a few weeks ago on Dynamat versus other alternatives. I ended up going with name-brand Dynamat, because I got a reasonable price and so many conflicting opinions. I put the dynamat on the most inner panels of the doors yesterday and it even increased the quality sound of my original 'stock premium' speakers - the doors also give a much improved 'thud' when I close them now.

I am waiting on the jblms8 to arrive, in the mean time I sometimes just like to sit and look at all the cool gear waiting to be installed. 🙂

P

 

[freijnen]

I have no experience with different kinds of wool rilling. So i cannot help you there.
Damping the door surfaces with dynamat can in deed dramatically improve the performance of any speaker. Make sure you apply a layer on both the inside and the outside panel of the door. Both are part of the speaker enclosure for the door speaker.

I do not use dynamat because it is quote expensive in Europe. Instead i use StandartPlast, als sold onder the name Silent Coat. Its been told that this stuf is developed by a Russian compagny who made damping used by Submarines during the cold war. I am not shure if this is true, but it is a good story.

They als sell a sort of foam sheet to put beteren the inner door panel and the door cart. This prevents the cart from rattling against the panel.

 

[JFCMan1]

Requesting advice on my intended Audi system setup.

Hi, I'm new here and though I've been listening to music for 60 years, I know nothing about audio system setups. I have a Sansui G-8000 (100 watts out) that I want to listen to with eight (8) speakers connected (don't ask why, I just want to). The Sansui has two speaker output sections: "A" and "B". That takes care of four speakers, but make total impedance go down to four (4) Ohms - (1/8)+(1/8)=4. Supposedly that's safe, but I have 8 speakers (JBL's ES30s) and I want to connect them in series of two (2) on each speaker output section, and have 2 Sony subwoofers (SA-W2500s) as well (I'm using the Pre-outs to the subs One (1) on the Left channel Pre-out, the other on the Right channel Pre-out.
This is the idea: "A" Left will have two Speakers in series, "A" Right will also have two Speakers in series - "B" will be similarly connected. So, all the speakers have the very same specs for power, impedance, bandwidth, etc. and the amp's "LOAD" will be eight (8) Ohms again (8+8=16)/2=8 again?
Will this work, or will it all go up in smoke?

 

[Trileru]

I have a Sansui G-8000

That is a nice receiver!
But I can't help you out with what you need.
As far as my Marantz 4230 goes, it has the same A/B speaker connection configuration. But! that's something like different rooms setup. You can only have A or B connections active at any one time.
Furthermore, I don't know if you can link the system in series, especially if the speakers have passive crossovers in them. I don't know how that could affect the overall response. And parallel you can go as much as the amp can be loaded down (I won't bet on 2ohms).
Better get one of these fancy new units with multiple amps inside for different channels. Something like a 5.1 amp (some of them can give 100Wx6 setups).

 

[Trileru]

I had a look for this receiver and found that it only has two outputs at a time. So you must have a switch for A or B outputs. Can't have them on at the same time.
My Marantz does have 4 amplifiers inside, and I can have a bridged stereo output or full 4 channel output (for the Quadradial system). I use them for bi-amping a pair of Wharfedale Diamond speakers.
But, as far as maths go, yes you should be able to link them like this:
On left channel you put two sets of two speakers in series, in parallel. So with 4 speakers you come back to 8 ohms. On the right channel you do the same and this way you use all of your 8 speakers. But this way you only have 25W per speaker maximum.
And all this I still don't recommend until someone can chime in and tell us if it works keeping in mind the passive crossovers in the speakers (for parallel shouldn't be a problem, but for series...I don't know).

edit:
I attached a drawing of what I tried to describe.
Also even if there's no problem from the passive crossover's point of view, I still don't recommend as you could fry your precious output transistors with this setup. I don't think it's worth it. Those are 70W RMS speakers, and your receiver can output a maximum of 120W RMS per channel.
2nd edit:
I think the safest for you would be to just use a total of 4 speakers, two in parallel on each channel. That way you come out at 4ohms per channel and that should be safe. Just take care to link them correctly, have a listen and then think about if you really need to add the other 4 (or just get another amplifier for the other 4). Resist the temptation to just link all 8 and test as you might damage the amp. If you don't care for it send it my way 🙂

3rd edit:
I'm not offtopic as I just got two sets of Hertz DSK 130.3 speakers for my car and that's relevant to this topic 🙂

 

[JFCMan1]

Hi Trileru, thank you for your comments - I did a lot of research about the dangers of connecting speakers in series a while back and found a pair of engineers that went through all the math involved to prove it was OK to do so. A big advantage for me is that I don't "crank up" the volume (no need: small room, speakers @ 5 feet away from my head all around), never had the knob past 4 yet. My Sansui does let me play "A" & "B" together (both on @ same time). Having the engineers say is OK, I also wanted to hear from folks who have actually tried the theory out for real and find out if it all actually works.

 

[Trileru]

I'm not sure if it's supposed to work that way. I mean, having both A/B speaker connections on at the same time.
I am afraid that you might burn something that way. As far as I know, you have only two active channels on that amp.
There is no problem with linking two drivers in series, especially if they are the same. But I don't know what happens when you link two systems with passive crossovers in series. That's beyond my knowledge and I do stress you first research this particular scenario before doing something.
Again, I don't think your amp is supposed to be outputting signal on both A/B connections at the same time. The selector might be broken or something.
Loading the amps down might fry them, even on low volume.

 

[JFCMan1]

Speakers connected in series

I'm not sure if it's supposed to work that way. I mean, having both A/B speaker connections on at the same time.
I am afraid that you might burn something that way. As far as I know, you have only two active channels on that amp.
There is no problem with linking two drivers in series, especially if they are the same. But I don't know what happens when you link two systems with passive crossovers in series. That's beyond my knowledge and I do stress you first research this particular scenario before doing something.
Again, I don't think your amp is supposed to be outputting signal on both A/B connections at the same time. The selector might be broken or something.
Loading the amps down might fry them, even on low volume.

Hi again, my receiver's manual suggests that, when using both "A" & "B" together, to make sure all the speakers be at least 8 ohms or higher, because using "A" & "B" together places the "A" speakers in parallel with the "B" speakers and so the load would be 4 ohms - by connecting the speakers in series, that makes "A" = 16 ohms and "B" also = 16 ohms, so the total load once again becomes 8 ohms - I don't pretend to understand the math the engineers used, but I checked their sources and found their calculations were the same as quoted.

 

[Trileru]

Ah, in that case there is no difference between my drawing and what you want to do. As A and B connections are shorted together. As in, A left channel is physically linked to B left channel.
That way, you can connect on any amp connection two series connected speakers.
Basically, the amp is doing the paralleling for you, you just have to link the speakers two by two in series on each output.

 

[JFCMan1]

Thanks again Trileru, I'd still like to hear from someone who's actually tried this for an extended period of time - sometimes when someone tries something unusual, things may go well for a while and one day, suddenly, "kerpflunk"! I like may G-8000 - I wouldn't be happy if I damaged it somehow.

 

[Trileru]

That's what I was trying to tell you. You are better off using 4 speakers, two by two in parallel. If your amp can handle 4ohms, you should be good without crancking the volume up high.