Where i can see full plans of a full range cost-no-object hi-end loudspeaker?Also recomentations about the best raw drivers( tweeters,mid-bass,woofers,subwoofers)
Thanks a lot ,i feel like talking with good friends here.🙂
Thanks a lot ,i feel like talking with good friends here.🙂
I'm building a set of Lowther driven horns.... fostex, and vifa make good drivers as well, and will provide you with project plans when you purchase a set of drivers, or are availible on their website
-Maz
-Maz
You need to go to Linkwitzlab.com my friend. The Pheonix is the best speaker I've built/heard (period)
regards, Jason
regards, Jason
joz said:
You could take a look at the following sites.
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/index.html
http://www.gydotron.com/ (look in 'Projecten' for 'Gydolon MKII)
http://members.home.nl/edgar.beers/eveII.htm (look for eVeII High End speaker.
Good luck!
Marc
Cloning Dynaudios is an exercise in frustration these days, since they stopped selling raw drivers. Great drivers, but their systems never seemed to live up to the quality of the components. The best Dynaudio system I ever heard was Murray Zeligman's take on the Consequence, but even Murray has given up on Dynaudio.
If I were doing cost-no-object, I wouldn't be looking at cones and boxes.
If I were doing cost-no-object, I wouldn't be looking at cones and boxes.
if cost is no object, then why don't you just buy your dream speakers.
after many years of loudspeaker design(without succes) i truly believe that its easier to put a man on the moon than to create a good loudspeaker..........
after many years of loudspeaker design(without succes) i truly believe that its easier to put a man on the moon than to create a good loudspeaker..........
......but if you insist......there is drivers from TAD, LOWTHER, ATC, RAVEN and some more.
its easy to find the best drivers - but to make them sing together, is another story......!!!!
its easy to find the best drivers - but to make them sing together, is another story......!!!!
When i say cost-no-object i refer to a diy project.I DO BELIEVE that all companies that producing loudspeakers ARE STEALING the music lover with the astronomical prices they sell their industrial products.Its unacceptable that a very good loudspeaker costs more than a very good car(see b&w 801,dynaudio temtation,wilson xx1,jmlab utopia,....).Thats why i like to build my own kits (totally 5 loudspeakers for home theater use).So here i am ,asking for help from the experts.
when one looks at the manufacturing costs of a b&w N801 - the costs of the raw materials used in the production - you are absolutely right, it shouldn't cost the same as a decent car.
but you will have to accept this fact, and pay the man.....
its all market economy, if it could be done cheaper and better - it would......
if you want to save a few bucks you'll have to make a clone of the speakers you like, and the game almost stops right here, even a clone is very difficult to get right.
i use the atc scm 100sl, and i have the original crossover scematics, and even with an original in the same room, the garanti of succes is not given. i have tried it......
as you can guess, after many gross sounding speakers, i ended up bying a prebuild speaker - wich btw looks very plain - an expensive one. but it works....
but you will have to accept this fact, and pay the man.....
its all market economy, if it could be done cheaper and better - it would......
if you want to save a few bucks you'll have to make a clone of the speakers you like, and the game almost stops right here, even a clone is very difficult to get right.
i use the atc scm 100sl, and i have the original crossover scematics, and even with an original in the same room, the garanti of succes is not given. i have tried it......
as you can guess, after many gross sounding speakers, i ended up bying a prebuild speaker - wich btw looks very plain - an expensive one. but it works....
Dynaudio is still available at www.remo.nl
Site is in the amazing Dutch language so maybe you have to look for their e-mail adress...
A few months ago I had the opportunity to listen to the Evidence... Very nice indeed.
Jan
Site is in the amazing Dutch language so maybe you have to look for their e-mail adress...
A few months ago I had the opportunity to listen to the Evidence... Very nice indeed.
Jan
I would seriously consider Bandor drive units.
Not only are they hand-made to very high specifications but also the design allows you to keep the crossover point well away from the sensitive mid-range or even do without a crossover altogether.
The lightness of the 2" (50mm cones) gives them a speed incomparable with any other cone drivers that I've heard or seen. They are even faster than electrostatics. For the high frequencies, I think that Bandors outshine other full-range units - the small diameter helps here.
Here are just a few design possibilities using these remarkable drivers.
Bandor 100 + Bandor 50 ... crossover anywhere 100Hz-8kHz
Bandor 100 + 2 x Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-300Hz
Bandor 100 + "conventional tweeter" ... crossover 5kHz-8kHz
Bandor 150 + Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-7kHz
Bandor 150 + 2 x Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-300Hz
Bandor 150 + "conventional tweeter" ... crossover 5kHz-7kHz
etc., etc., etc.
Of course the Bandor 50s can be used with other bass units but why not have the same "sonic signature" throughout the frequency range?
A wide range of bass loading possibilities can be considered, including: sealed-box, ported, TL, horn or OB. The possibilities are endless.
You can even use Bandor 50s as full-range drivers with no crossovers at all - see Seventh Veil.
Personally, as a speaker designer, I have always found Bandors to be reliable and capable of some performance attributes that I haven't found elsewhere.
Steve
check out Bandor drivers
Not only are they hand-made to very high specifications but also the design allows you to keep the crossover point well away from the sensitive mid-range or even do without a crossover altogether.
The lightness of the 2" (50mm cones) gives them a speed incomparable with any other cone drivers that I've heard or seen. They are even faster than electrostatics. For the high frequencies, I think that Bandors outshine other full-range units - the small diameter helps here.
Here are just a few design possibilities using these remarkable drivers.
Bandor 100 + Bandor 50 ... crossover anywhere 100Hz-8kHz
Bandor 100 + 2 x Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-300Hz
Bandor 100 + "conventional tweeter" ... crossover 5kHz-8kHz
Bandor 150 + Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-7kHz
Bandor 150 + 2 x Bandor 50 ... crossover 100Hz-300Hz
Bandor 150 + "conventional tweeter" ... crossover 5kHz-7kHz
etc., etc., etc.
Of course the Bandor 50s can be used with other bass units but why not have the same "sonic signature" throughout the frequency range?
A wide range of bass loading possibilities can be considered, including: sealed-box, ported, TL, horn or OB. The possibilities are endless.
You can even use Bandor 50s as full-range drivers with no crossovers at all - see Seventh Veil.
Personally, as a speaker designer, I have always found Bandors to be reliable and capable of some performance attributes that I haven't found elsewhere.
Steve
check out Bandor drivers
There are as many different ways (all valid) to do a high end speaker as there are designers.
1st off, it should be active. The one below requires 4 or 5 poweramps.
One i have been throwing around in my head of late would be a 3-way with a pair of Jordan JX92 push-push bipolar as mids, with a really good ribbon on top, Raven R1, R2 or ARG or ESG, and a pair of push-push Lambdas (pick your size) on the bottom.
The biggest deficiency with this system is the relative inefficiency of the Jordans.
dave
1st off, it should be active. The one below requires 4 or 5 poweramps.
One i have been throwing around in my head of late would be a 3-way with a pair of Jordan JX92 push-push bipolar as mids, with a really good ribbon on top, Raven R1, R2 or ARG or ESG, and a pair of push-push Lambdas (pick your size) on the bottom.
The biggest deficiency with this system is the relative inefficiency of the Jordans.
dave
The pic Joz posted (the drawing) looked a bit like the JM lab utopias...
I guess you could do well by deciding what kind of SPL's you need, and the amps you wish to use (if you're set on SE valves then your drivers need to be very efficient)
Then you can move to driver selection/ topology
Rob
I guess you could do well by deciding what kind of SPL's you need, and the amps you wish to use (if you're set on SE valves then your drivers need to be very efficient)
Then you can move to driver selection/ topology
Rob
RobWells said:
Or you could start with driver selection topology.
Rob, you make a valid point. You outline a valid option. However, what if you believe that driver selection/topology can make a bigger difference than amp topology? Where would you start then?
As Dave says: "There are as many different ways (all valid) to do a high end speaker as there are designers. " I would go even further: "There are as many different ways (all valid) to do a high end SYSTEM as there are designers. "
Isn't that what makes this one of the most extraordinarily creative areas in the field of 'engineering'?
Steve
Yep your point is as valid as mine...
However, The original post asked about loudspeakers, not amps etc.. therefore you could assume that he's already got his front end and amp sorted. If this is the case then he needs to ask himself about spl's etc....
Basically, the speaker choice has to be matched to the amp choice, and this is where spl's become important. As you state, if he wants to choose the drivers first he can, and then match the amps to them.
edit** if you're into low power amps the choice of speaker is very important compared to if you use a 30w+ transistor amp**
Just trying to help😎
Rob
However, The original post asked about loudspeakers, not amps etc.. therefore you could assume that he's already got his front end and amp sorted. If this is the case then he needs to ask himself about spl's etc....
Basically, the speaker choice has to be matched to the amp choice, and this is where spl's become important. As you state, if he wants to choose the drivers first he can, and then match the amps to them.
edit** if you're into low power amps the choice of speaker is very important compared to if you use a 30w+ transistor amp**
Just trying to help😎
Rob
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