Hi All,
Is there a way to convert PRE-OUT from my receiver and convert it to LINE level output? I do not have a dedicated power amp and want to do some tinkering with the signal (which needs it to be line level) and then feed it to another receiver as multi channel input.
I have searched a fair bit and I see a lot of discussions about converting Speaker level to line level but never Pre-out to line level.
I realize Pre-out is a variable signal as it has the volume component while line out is constant.
Any help would be very appreciated.
Is there a way to convert PRE-OUT from my receiver and convert it to LINE level output? I do not have a dedicated power amp and want to do some tinkering with the signal (which needs it to be line level) and then feed it to another receiver as multi channel input.
I have searched a fair bit and I see a lot of discussions about converting Speaker level to line level but never Pre-out to line level.
I realize Pre-out is a variable signal as it has the volume component while line out is constant.
Any help would be very appreciated.
A preout level will almost certainly be at what we would call 'line level' output. This is the same kind of level you would get from a source component like a CD player or tuner or cassette deck etc.
Your receivers 'pre out' may or may not be affected by the main volume control. Don't just assume it is. You will only know by examining the circuit or testing it.
Your receivers 'pre out' may or may not be affected by the main volume control. Don't just assume it is. You will only know by examining the circuit or testing it.
Line out is certainly NOT a constant output.
A line level output is generally a variable signal with a maximum level of about 100mV.
If your pre-out is at the same level then you don't have to do anything with it.
There may be impedance constraints but that is not usually an issue.
Your PRE-OUT may not be under the control of the volume control.
You might need to add a 10K Log pot to control the volume.
A line level output is generally a variable signal with a maximum level of about 100mV.
If your pre-out is at the same level then you don't have to do anything with it.
There may be impedance constraints but that is not usually an issue.
Your PRE-OUT may not be under the control of the volume control.
You might need to add a 10K Log pot to control the volume.
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It is under the control of the volume
Here is what I am trying to do - take a few channels, split the signal (to line level) two ways and apply a crossover so now I have line level signals for High, Mid/Low) and then pass those two channels to another reciever I have which will amplify each channel and so I can feed my tweeter and midwoofer individually amplified speaker level outputs.
As a test I simply connected my preout to the multi channel in of the second reciever and the sound was very low and I had to raise it in the first reciever (which i am essentially using as a DAC and processor) and also raise the volume on my second reciever to well past 0dB to hear a decent volume.
Now if I fed a normal line level signal (from say a blu ray player's analog outputs)into the same multi channel inputs of the second reciever the sound is what I would term normal and amplifies properly and its suffciently loud at at -30db...In order for me to get that level of volume with Preouts, I have to raise volumes in both recievers significantly...
I hope what I am trying to articulate makes sense - basically from what I am hearing the preout is not behaving as line out
Here is what I am trying to do - take a few channels, split the signal (to line level) two ways and apply a crossover so now I have line level signals for High, Mid/Low) and then pass those two channels to another reciever I have which will amplify each channel and so I can feed my tweeter and midwoofer individually amplified speaker level outputs.
As a test I simply connected my preout to the multi channel in of the second reciever and the sound was very low and I had to raise it in the first reciever (which i am essentially using as a DAC and processor) and also raise the volume on my second reciever to well past 0dB to hear a decent volume.
Now if I fed a normal line level signal (from say a blu ray player's analog outputs)into the same multi channel inputs of the second reciever the sound is what I would term normal and amplifies properly and its suffciently loud at at -30db...In order for me to get that level of volume with Preouts, I have to raise volumes in both recievers significantly...
I hope what I am trying to articulate makes sense - basically from what I am hearing the preout is not behaving as line out
Because speaker level is at least 20X higher than line level, while pr and line levels are about the same.
Notnecessarily, it´s a designer choice.
Old receivers or amplifiers often had a dedicated Tape Recorder Out-In pair (NOT the Tape In position of the input selector) which was intended to record whatever program was being played (even from another tape recorder).
For obvious reasons, such output was connected before/independent from Volume control.
While Pre Out is usually intended to drive an external power amp, so must be controlled by the volume pot.
Yes but unfortunately this is a newer reciever (Yammy A3080, which has NO outputs of any sort except Pre-Out)...
I wanted to use the Yammy as my DAC and was hoping to get line level output for 2 or more channels (depending on if my source is 2 channel or multi channel) and then split each channel into 2 and apply a DSP crossover and then feed the split channels to my second receiver as multi channel inputs and get the speaker level outs that I can feed the tweeter and midwoofer of each speaker individually.
Mooly - If you look closely all the outputs are "PRE-OUT" and *not* line level.
They would work perfectly if all I needed to do was feed them to a PowerAmp.
My needs are different - I need them to be line level so I can split two ways (for each channel) and then do a crossover (to split the signals for Highs and the other for mids and lows) and *then* feed them to an amp as line level multi channel inputs.
I have several older receivers but this one surprised me by having zero line level outputs. It even lacks optical and SPDIF outputs as well. Basically with this receiver there is no way for you to take a line level output and record the signal (like to a tape deck or an external recorder). It is basically an ALL input machine and only Pre-Outs (as the only output).
They would work perfectly if all I needed to do was feed them to a PowerAmp.
My needs are different - I need them to be line level so I can split two ways (for each channel) and then do a crossover (to split the signals for Highs and the other for mids and lows) and *then* feed them to an amp as line level multi channel inputs.
I have several older receivers but this one surprised me by having zero line level outputs. It even lacks optical and SPDIF outputs as well. Basically with this receiver there is no way for you to take a line level output and record the signal (like to a tape deck or an external recorder). It is basically an ALL input machine and only Pre-Outs (as the only output).
So you want to bi-amp a set of speakers, you do realize the Yamaha has this function built in?
You still do not understand that "PRE-OUT" and "line level" are the SAME level.
You are confusing level (measured in mV) and Function, absolutely different things.
Well aware of that and have thought about that way before I posted. That would have been perfectly fine if my speakers has a built in passive crossover (like most speakers are).
My issue is - I want to do an active crossover as my DIY speakers are just the drivers in a cabinet with no crossover...so what they expect is the frequencies in the speaker level signal to *already* be filtered (with the right low pass and high pass filters)...
Which is why I want to get the signals at line level =>Feed them to my DSP crossover => Get the filtered signals for the tweeters and midwoofers =>Over to another receiver for amplification and finally over to the speaker.
The DSP stage for filtering is what is messing me up
I think what the OP wants is pretty clear. He wants a line level output that bypasses the preamp. Direct from the DAC output.
It seems that the pre-outs are post the preamp and volume control.
Provided that hacking the chasis and circuit is acceptable, it would seem the way to do this would be to find the point in the circuit before the preamp and tap off there. Ideally cutting the traces and installing a dpdt relay on a daughter board to either send the signal to the pre, or straight to an additional set of outputs on the back panel (assuming there is room to installl some). Obviously an additional switch would be required to toggle the relay as well.
edit: note that this assumes that there is an appropriate buffer after the DAC output, before the preamp.
Tony.
It seems that the pre-outs are post the preamp and volume control.
Provided that hacking the chasis and circuit is acceptable, it would seem the way to do this would be to find the point in the circuit before the preamp and tap off there. Ideally cutting the traces and installing a dpdt relay on a daughter board to either send the signal to the pre, or straight to an additional set of outputs on the back panel (assuming there is room to installl some). Obviously an additional switch would be required to toggle the relay as well.
edit: note that this assumes that there is an appropriate buffer after the DAC output, before the preamp.
Tony.
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Is there any reason not to run the Yamaha pre-amp out to the DSP crossover and then use the second receiver as an amp by just setting volume to give you the necessary gain? Seems pretty straightforward (and a pretty standard approach in general) to me.
I do find it odd that there is no line-out on the unit.
-b
I do find it odd that there is no line-out on the unit.
-b
EEEEGXACTLY! Finally!!!! Thank you for understanding the subtle yet key issue!
Basically from what I have gathered, there is no real easy way to get to that DAC output prior to it reaching that preamp and the whole volume control stage unless I do a hack at the physical level - which I do not think is feasible for me.
Given this is a dead end, I have been thinking of other ways to solve it...but thanks for the help y'all!
If you turn up the volume of the DAC preamp to near maximum, it's not enough to drive the active crossover? Normally a "pre" out would be equal to line out if the volume is at maximum. Anything lower than max volume is simply attenuated line level.
It's just a question of gain structure.
It's just a question of gain structure.
If it's like my Yamaha receiver, Zone out can be made to have a fixed volume output but of no use if you want to use it as fronts in a HT. Only good for stereo only and I think sources are limited.
Mine has line level outputs but it's a older model.
Mine has line level outputs but it's a older model.
BTW the suggestion about using the relay is not the only way. You could potentially just tap off before the preamplifer like a tee. The reason for suggesting the relay was to ensure that there is no loading from the pre-amp circuitry.
I assume the reason for not just upping the volume to an acceptable level is that you don't want any additional circuitry, that poentially could degrade the signal that is coming out of the DAC.
A look at the circuit diagram if available would give a much better idea of whether it would be easy or difficult to achieve.
What type of active crossover are you planning to use? If DSP based, you might as well ditch the reciever and feed it a direct digital signal, as it will be converting analog to digital before processing, and then digital to analogue again before sending to your final amps. Unless you want to be able to use some analogue sources as well as digital...
Tony.
I assume the reason for not just upping the volume to an acceptable level is that you don't want any additional circuitry, that poentially could degrade the signal that is coming out of the DAC.
A look at the circuit diagram if available would give a much better idea of whether it would be easy or difficult to achieve.
What type of active crossover are you planning to use? If DSP based, you might as well ditch the reciever and feed it a direct digital signal, as it will be converting analog to digital before processing, and then digital to analogue again before sending to your final amps. Unless you want to be able to use some analogue sources as well as digital...
Tony.