ejp: "If we couldn’t perceive frequencies below 1z, tuning would be impossible."
MarcelvdG: "Aren't you mixing up frequencies with frequency differences?"
ejp: "No. A frequency difference is still a frequency. That’s what IMD is all about, and superheterodyning."
MarcelvdG: "Maybe you use a different definition of "perception" than I do, otherwise your reply makes no sense."
ejp: "The reply that you quoted was about frequency differences, not perception."
Whatever...
MarcelvdG: "Aren't you mixing up frequencies with frequency differences?"
ejp: "No. A frequency difference is still a frequency. That’s what IMD is all about, and superheterodyning."
MarcelvdG: "Maybe you use a different definition of "perception" than I do, otherwise your reply makes no sense."
ejp: "The reply that you quoted was about frequency differences, not perception."
Whatever...
1. If you couldn’t perceive a frequency difference < 1 Hz, tuning would be impossible, and it isn’t, so QED.
2. The unit of a frequency difference where both frequencies are expressed in Hz is Hz. So I am not mixing them up, because they aren’t different in the first place.
If there is something wrong here please specify it.
2. The unit of a frequency difference where both frequencies are expressed in Hz is Hz. So I am not mixing them up, because they aren’t different in the first place.
If there is something wrong here please specify it.
This is probably because there is in fact a slight rolloff already at say 13k... too we know how abrupt the used filter was? A slow, wideband decrease (-0,1 dB no problem) in level is detectable by most people. So this does not necceasrily mean that your hear 22k. A proper test is to take a say 24/96k recording with identified content above 20k and use a sharp FIR filter say 20k and se if one can detect that. Here you slap need extremely clean transducers ("speaker driver") so not to create distortion. These should be measured and presented before such experiments is performed to verify the test setup.
Infra sound is felt more the heard so yeh - perception here. Use headphones? Well, one need to really make sure that the distortion is really low so not to hear overtones rather than the fundamental. Measurements need to ***** the validity of the test performed.
Summary: To scientifically evaluate the range of the hearing apparatus i.e. outer ear, inner ear and brain, and tactile sensors will require a truly rigorous setup and procedure that I would say is not doable in a home environment with normal audio gear. Its just to hard to answer such question correctly.
So fun but I cant trust this as a solid data point... LF perhaps, but not HF.
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The EM leakage from CRTs was known to produce headaches for many people. As far as I could tell, the low-frequency deflection coils for the vertical refresh rate were responsible. My physics teacher once plugged a signal generator @ ~20Hz into a coil with a large unshielded core. I don't remember the details of the experiment, but I do remember as soon as he flipped the switch, it was like a S.O. saying mean things 😉
I wonder to what extent subwoofer "wow" and weirdness is enhanced by the EM. Has anyone played around with those grilles, intended for guitar / electric bass usage? On the other hand, car sickness is also thought to be somewhat associated with sub-bass sound, though it also seems to be multi-sensory thing involving sight and smell.
I wonder to what extent subwoofer "wow" and weirdness is enhanced by the EM. Has anyone played around with those grilles, intended for guitar / electric bass usage? On the other hand, car sickness is also thought to be somewhat associated with sub-bass sound, though it also seems to be multi-sensory thing involving sight and smell.
The organ is great. Powerful. Awesome. You know it is there, you can feel it. It's a presence you can't deny, yet you can't put your finger on it. It has an intangible but undeniable nature.
It compliments belief systems.
It compliments belief systems.
CRT scan magnetic fields were fairly strong. I have read of people detecting these in the fillings in their teeth.
Back when I could hear almost up to 20 KHz, I tested to have a notch at line scan frequency due to high exposure in my day job. I don't know if this was physical or brain processing.
I guess a lot of these things were designed with "minimum viable product" thinking. So of course the refresh rates were the minimum that they could away with, and the same with high pitched tones being emitted.
I'm not sure I've ever heard an organ with a 64, 32 is the lowest I've heard that I know for certain, and the bottom is 16Hz for a 32. I don't know if I "hear" a 16Hz tone, but I do feel it and it is part of the experience of a live recital. I want the same experience in my home, so my main system can do down to around 20. Of course the big problem in the home is space, and I can't afford a cathedral so the bottom end is very unflat in my home. I still get some of the feel though. One of my favorites is Telarc's Saint Saen's No 3 for organ. There is a long passage starting on side 1 about 10 minutes in where the organ just encompasses me when I listen to it. So satisfying.
One more thing I'd add. Without that bottom, and I've heard it on systems where it is absent, the same passage is complete uninspiring.
One more thing I'd add. Without that bottom, and I've heard it on systems where it is absent, the same passage is complete uninspiring.
I built numerous motional feedback subs using philips drivers, one box with dual drivers with one operating in the infrasonic range, another pair with 12" drivers and another pair with 6-8" drivers in each stack. The ones I preferred used the dual 12" philips drivers.
With accelerometer feedback this forced the resonant peaking into the 10 Hz region. When playing pure sinusoids without feedback at perhaps 30 Hz the distortions could easily be heard. With feedback distortions reduced dramatically with very little being heard. In playing organ music there exists beat frequencies in the vibrato that become apparent below actual frequencies (the famous E Power Biggs). Its the beat frequencies in the lower registers that create a formidable reality. However this only occurred in a large loft exceeding 30 feet in one direction. In other words mostly useless in any conventional living room even with the inclusion of parametric equalizers being ultimately added.
i made sure nothing under 18-20khz is rolling off.... i also compared FIR vs IIR filters
here you can see what i mean:
the thing was/is for me, if you use a lowpass like above (for me) the audio begins to sound somewhat dull for whatever reason, which probably doesnt come only from the -0.5db at 17-18khz or whatever
but you are still right, the question is if i was perceiving preringing/phaseshift instead of the frequencys above 20khz alone, or if i can still slightly perceive 18-20khz
maybe my speakers are creating some nastys playing back ultrasonics which is actually what i heared etc...
no real way to make sure unless its a pretty dedicated test setup like you said
Yeah - that graph has to low resolution on the y-axis. Set it to span +/- 1 dB and see what it reads?
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This concept of hearing outside of conscious perception is intriguing, and it’s a dream come true for commerce.
OK, then you can be quite sure that you have the level starting to fall by 0,1 dB at already at 10k - and this will be audible for many. So busted.
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true!
while there are definitely black sheeps in the industry.... IMHO there are alot of people selling stuff that actually have a point and they get much hate for it, because it might not be easily explained by science or ASR forum for that matter
personally just not a fan of working stuff that is heavly overpriced
I disagree with point 2.
Suppose the question was: Can a human being survive a temperature of 4 kelvin?
I would then also disagree if someone would answer:
Humans can survive 293 kelvin.
Humans can survive 297 kelvin.
The difference is 4 kelvin and it has the right dimension, temperature.
Hence, humans can survive a temperature of 4 kelvin.
Maybe irt is not directly connected with the topic... Sorry
I have a Tinitus. Last decade say. That is constant hiss and hum in the head. I spot one thing - when i am close to the big antenas at the urban sites, somehow I feel it as more pressure in the head, tinitus is more present, and within the seconds i can recognize these antennas around?
People have communicated with audio frequency ground waves, and with submerged submarines at much lower frequencies. Saying it can't happen seems at odds with what is known to exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_low_frequency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_low_frequency
When you apply a 7kHz on the left shell of a headphone, and 6kHz on the right, one perceives a 1kHz tone 'in the head'.
I never found a report about an experiment raising both frequencies 'in tandem' to define the utmost upper audiable frequencies.
In the experiment in the prime post, something like 'phase perception' is involved.
Curious about this.
I choose to design amplifiers phase flat up to 100kHz just to be safe.
I never found a report about an experiment raising both frequencies 'in tandem' to define the utmost upper audiable frequencies.
In the experiment in the prime post, something like 'phase perception' is involved.
Curious about this.
I choose to design amplifiers phase flat up to 100kHz just to be safe.