analog_sa said:
I have a feeling that Carlos' GC amp outperforms SET 😉😉😉😉😉😉😉;😉😉😉;😉😉😉;
Is that better?😉
You only have 2 smilies in the thousands place. You need to move the semicolon one place to the left. Corrected, thats still over a trillion smiliepower, using the U.S. Trillion. Very impressive.....
That Peter - He's a positive and happy guy obviously 😀 😀 😀 😀
That Peter - He's a positive and happy guy obviously 😀 😀 😀 😀
Hi,
I know the guy from Audio Cube and believe me guys, it is not a usual distributor. It is a serious audio lover running a small business for his own pleasure and in search for the best system (if that exists) and it is merely a grown out hobby.
Have heard the Gaincard on the same speakers as Sjef and also on a large BW (do not remember exactly which one). I do not know what VS you have listened to Sjef, the VR1 and/or the VR4? On the small VR1’s it sounded very good but on the VR4’s it ran out of steam at higher levels and on the BW anyway. Can imagine you are not a fan of VS with a Gaincard. VS is very analytical with a broad sweets spot but still musical IMHO. The JMR Offerande is a totally different piece of cake, you love them or ehhh… don’t like them. Anyway it is not my piece of cake 😉 IMHO the Gaincard wasn’t being able to keep the bass under control with the Offerandes but I think that is mainly due to the very thin 47 Labs speaker wires with their high resistance.
About stability of the Gaincard: The speaker wires of 47 Labs are simply two separate single wires laying random apart. That construction has a high inductance by itself and you can consider that as an isolating coil. Don’t think there is a problem at that side.
Cheers 😉
I know the guy from Audio Cube and believe me guys, it is not a usual distributor. It is a serious audio lover running a small business for his own pleasure and in search for the best system (if that exists) and it is merely a grown out hobby.
Have heard the Gaincard on the same speakers as Sjef and also on a large BW (do not remember exactly which one). I do not know what VS you have listened to Sjef, the VR1 and/or the VR4? On the small VR1’s it sounded very good but on the VR4’s it ran out of steam at higher levels and on the BW anyway. Can imagine you are not a fan of VS with a Gaincard. VS is very analytical with a broad sweets spot but still musical IMHO. The JMR Offerande is a totally different piece of cake, you love them or ehhh… don’t like them. Anyway it is not my piece of cake 😉 IMHO the Gaincard wasn’t being able to keep the bass under control with the Offerandes but I think that is mainly due to the very thin 47 Labs speaker wires with their high resistance.
About stability of the Gaincard: The speaker wires of 47 Labs are simply two separate single wires laying random apart. That construction has a high inductance by itself and you can consider that as an isolating coil. Don’t think there is a problem at that side.
Cheers 😉
What about your own design Peter ? or the imlementation of your design with Brian's PCB's ? Do they really sound that different ?
I don't get it anymore, really, and I'm not the only one I think.
First there was the NI gainclone, after that everyone thought inverting was better, with or without buffer, then there was the NI GC again (much better offcoarse) and now we have the buffered inverted again with stabalized power supply.
I think in some time someone finds out that a discreet buffer with discreet regulators and an extra complementary pair of output transistors sounds waaaaayyyyyy better, in other words, are we reinventing the solid state amp here ?
Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not offendig anyone. I really apreciate all the effort you put in to this.
I don't get it anymore, really, and I'm not the only one I think.
First there was the NI gainclone, after that everyone thought inverting was better, with or without buffer, then there was the NI GC again (much better offcoarse) and now we have the buffered inverted again with stabalized power supply.
I think in some time someone finds out that a discreet buffer with discreet regulators and an extra complementary pair of output transistors sounds waaaaayyyyyy better, in other words, are we reinventing the solid state amp here ?
Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not offendig anyone. I really apreciate all the effort you put in to this.
Sjef said:
I've never heard the original GainCard. I think in some ways it's advantageous for me, as I'm not biased by the sonic impression of it, (and it's still a sort of mysterious design to me). I'm not trying to clone its sound, but rather come up with my own sound "signature" which is definitely a more satisfying experience.
As you read previous comments from Audio Cube dealer, my first implementation of Amp-1 didn't impress him much, when comparing to GainCard. I took his critisism seriously, and the NI version seems to be much better sounding, not only to me, but to my business partner and to all customers who tried both.
I'm listening to all type of music, and I try to make the amp sound good with variety of programs. I don't think Mr. Kimura is a fun of industrial or electronic genre, yet since this material consists quite a big part of my listening interest, the amp sounds good with this material as well.
I also tried many different speakers, and I really don't find the amp to be that fussy about the drivers used.
The Brian's kit is directly based on the circuit used in Amp-1 (NI version) and if properly implemented, it should provide sonics close to Amp-1. Yet, large part of the final signature is still dependant on transformer, chassis, PS capacitors and wiring (both the type of wire and implementation). So results may vary.
I am not saying that buffered and inverted circuit is inferior to stripped NI implementation. With proper care it may be actually better. It all depends on taste, listening material and the creativity of the designer. I also don't say that regulation don't work. It may very well be the key to certain setups.
But I also believe, that in proper system, when properly matched/implemented, nothing can beat a stripped (simplified) chip amp circuit. After almost two years of playing with it, I'm still not bored.
I met some guys who were into SET designs, but they commented that chip amps have something that SET will never deliver, don't ask me what, as I never listened to a good SET either😉
Do the chip amp designs sound different?
Although they are built around same chip, you can either make the amp out of it, or break the amp. I've built many different versions, and I can honestly say that each was sounding different.
Brian's kit sounds pretty good and the response from satisfied customers is the best proof of it.
Hi Sjef,
It is hard to say Sjef. Every system is different and I think the room at AudioCube is not so appropriate for the Offerandes. I think they will do better in another room.
At the moment I have no Gainclone operating but I have used the chips also extensively in active filtered multi amping systems with great satisfaction long before the whole Gainclone hype started. I am working on a new amp with LM3886 chips and a discrete build regulated PSU and a separate tube pre amp. I am in a movement up to the end of the year so the house has first priority now. I do not expect to have it operating before the middle of next year. So it is hard to say now how it will sound. But when it up and running you are welcome.
On the other hand I would say build your own GC. It is not difficult (Brian’s boards will make it even easier) and a lot of fun. You will not be disappointed. Those chips outperform many high-end commercial amps IMO. For me personally the original Gaincard is not more (and not less) musical than a homebrew LM3886 based amp, nowadays called a Gainclone 😀 Making a “musical” sounding system will stay a kind of magic, whether you use SET’s or LM chips or whatever. But I must admit a good tube amp has a kind of magic not found in SS.
Cheers 😉
It is hard to say Sjef. Every system is different and I think the room at AudioCube is not so appropriate for the Offerandes. I think they will do better in another room.
At the moment I have no Gainclone operating but I have used the chips also extensively in active filtered multi amping systems with great satisfaction long before the whole Gainclone hype started. I am working on a new amp with LM3886 chips and a discrete build regulated PSU and a separate tube pre amp. I am in a movement up to the end of the year so the house has first priority now. I do not expect to have it operating before the middle of next year. So it is hard to say now how it will sound. But when it up and running you are welcome.
On the other hand I would say build your own GC. It is not difficult (Brian’s boards will make it even easier) and a lot of fun. You will not be disappointed. Those chips outperform many high-end commercial amps IMO. For me personally the original Gaincard is not more (and not less) musical than a homebrew LM3886 based amp, nowadays called a Gainclone 😀 Making a “musical” sounding system will stay a kind of magic, whether you use SET’s or LM chips or whatever. But I must admit a good tube amp has a kind of magic not found in SS.
Cheers 😉
Peter, thanks for your very honest answer.
I have also experienced in other amps that the mains transformer makes a different. The Torodial's ain't bad, but when I tried an old C-core transformer with completly seperated primary and secundary windings in some hybrid amps it sounded quite a bit better. They where transformers from a very old Philips video recorder, from the time that vcr's where very big and power consuming. Never saw these transformers for sale anywhere.
I totally agree with you that an amp, or whatever other kind of hifi gear must be capable of playing everything. I have heard a couple of systems wich had raving reviews from reviewers who only listen to classical music and each time I didn't like what I heard. Lesson I have learned, never trust a reviewer who thinks that everything else but classical music isn't music. A system must be able to rock and roll whenever I'm in the mood for that. It's all about enjoying music, nothing else, so don't take it to seriously all the time.
Pjotr, I don't know wich type the Von Sweikerts where. They have two 6.5" woofers and a seperate top enclosure with a 6.5"midrange and a 1" dome tweeter. It's just that I don't like dome tweeters, I'm used to listen to ribbons and for me there is no way back. I'm also used to listen to open baffle bass with 2 15" JBL pro woofers each side. Same story, once you are used to big woofers that go really low with ease you don't want to go back. The Offrandes had very nice midrange though and good integration between low/mid driver and tweeter.
I have also experienced in other amps that the mains transformer makes a different. The Torodial's ain't bad, but when I tried an old C-core transformer with completly seperated primary and secundary windings in some hybrid amps it sounded quite a bit better. They where transformers from a very old Philips video recorder, from the time that vcr's where very big and power consuming. Never saw these transformers for sale anywhere.
I totally agree with you that an amp, or whatever other kind of hifi gear must be capable of playing everything. I have heard a couple of systems wich had raving reviews from reviewers who only listen to classical music and each time I didn't like what I heard. Lesson I have learned, never trust a reviewer who thinks that everything else but classical music isn't music. A system must be able to rock and roll whenever I'm in the mood for that. It's all about enjoying music, nothing else, so don't take it to seriously all the time.
Pjotr, I don't know wich type the Von Sweikerts where. They have two 6.5" woofers and a seperate top enclosure with a 6.5"midrange and a 1" dome tweeter. It's just that I don't like dome tweeters, I'm used to listen to ribbons and for me there is no way back. I'm also used to listen to open baffle bass with 2 15" JBL pro woofers each side. Same story, once you are used to big woofers that go really low with ease you don't want to go back. The Offrandes had very nice midrange though and good integration between low/mid driver and tweeter.
Sjef said:
😱
Does that guy demo the Gaincard with these speakers?
And with "big" B&Ws?
Aaahhahahaah!!!!😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
I have just cleaned up this thread. If I have to do it again then there will be trouble.
BEHAVE!
Let's trade the JR schematics for your gainclone secret recipe 🙂
Seriously, the Stereophile review is very explicit as far as the schematic goes. Two Jensen input step-down transformers per channel followed by twin 3310 volume controls, AD815 opamps and Jensen output transformers. All in a one-piece machined alu case with extreme attention to vibration control and battery power.
Indeed, it sounds like a good recipe with all the iron and batteries, altough i may have some misgivings towards the 3310.
And no, it won't be possible to build a clone on the cheap 🙂
Peter Daniel said:
analog_sa said:
Peter Daniel said:
pinkmouse said:
I have just cleaned up this thread. If I have to do it again then there will be trouble.
BEHAVE!
Al, these two members never heard the Gaincard.
Look at the title of this thread.
Why did they came to this thread?
To pick with me.
Is this cleaning?
Fine.
Good job.
Sjef said:
Hi Sjef,
Then that was the VR4 most likely. Those need a more beefy amp than a Gaincard or a SET to really come to life IMO. Note that a Gaincard is not the same as an LM3886 based Gainclone although they belong to the same family. A LM3886 amp can spit out simply more power and has as such more headroom.
Can second your opinion about ribbons and large woofers. But I must admit that a good dome can come close by good ribbons. And the VR1 is one of those rare commercial speakers that do. Very good integration between the tweeter and mid/low and nice consistent imaging. At the moment I own and listen to the VR1’s but in the future there is a big chance I will switch back to pure metal ribbons.
Cheers 😉
Pjotr said:
Pjotr said:
And much more current.
I couldn't agree more.
That's why I use it.
My 3875 amp was dismantled long ago.😀
I heard the Tannoy SGM-3000 on a Shigaraki amp at Audio-cube. That was really great! Nice sweet midrange, detail and good dynamics. We heard some drum tracks that really kicked ***. The system was really easy to listen to, relaxing...
I think such a speaker is a good match for the 47 Labs amp. High sensitivity, reasonable neutral (though the speaker has a peak around 3-4 kHz, not really disturbing with neutral material), 8 ohm. The sound characteristics of the speaker also nicely match with 47 Labs gear: smooth, refined&detailed sound with good dynamics.
Fedde
I think such a speaker is a good match for the 47 Labs amp. High sensitivity, reasonable neutral (though the speaker has a peak around 3-4 kHz, not really disturbing with neutral material), 8 ohm. The sound characteristics of the speaker also nicely match with 47 Labs gear: smooth, refined&detailed sound with good dynamics.
Fedde
Pjotr said:
No, I meant 3875 .
The Gaincard has two versions, neither of them can drive properly those speakers.
LM3886, better.😀
Fedde, Tannoy has (and always had) some easy to drive speakers.
That speaker is likely to give good results with the Gaincard.
***Edit***
I tested the LM1875 and liked it, very detailed, but it sounded very bad with my main system speakers, it just couldn't drive them.
schematics please
carlos,
Can I have a copy of the schematics of your gc recipe? I promise not to make any money out of it. But I will build 2 units, one for me and one for my brother.
my email is jojod818@yahoo.com
thank you,
JojoD
PS, a detailed parts list will also be appreciated so I can build it as close as possible to your current setup.
carlos,
Can I have a copy of the schematics of your gc recipe? I promise not to make any money out of it. But I will build 2 units, one for me and one for my brother.
my email is jojod818@yahoo.com
thank you,
JojoD
PS, a detailed parts list will also be appreciated so I can build it as close as possible to your current setup.
Ok Carlos,
Have used only the 1875 and 3886 but not the 3875. Is the difference between the 3886 and the 3875 really that big? Think that also depends on the PSU voltage you are running them from.
Cheers 😉
Have used only the 1875 and 3886 but not the 3875. Is the difference between the 3886 and the 3875 really that big? Think that also depends on the PSU voltage you are running them from.
Cheers 😉
Pjotr said:
Well... dismantling and amp with LM3875 chips and putting in LM3886 gave me a clear idea. The PSU was the same, cabling, heatsinks, connectors, box...😀
My main system speakers were happier with the LM3886.
This was around a year ago, many things I tested, plenty of things I made, but not with the LM3875 again.
Having double the current, the LM3886 has more power at low impedance loads, very important for most modern speakers.
Compare the graphs of the two datasheets.
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