Hi Paolo
I checked some of the dac/transports you mentioned and they do look like nice units to consider. The only setback is that even used, some of them still cost more than what I paid for the Betas. I might have to hold off on that purchase for awhile, but now you have given me some good names to watch out for, thank you very much.
In regards to swapping out the NP electrolytics:
I checked the solen.ca site and the Yellow Bennics (metalized polyester) are almost unbelievably inexpensive, but it would be hard to match up to the exact values I need with what they have in those.
Another option that they do have though which I like is the Metalized Polypropylene Capacitors. I believe I read that the polypropylene is a superior cap, plus these have a higher voltage (250V), and there is an exact match for 3 of the 4 caps I require.
The one value that do I need and that they do not have is 35 mfd, but I could make up that value with a 33mfd and 2 mfd in parallel. They do have a 36 mfd capacitor, but that may not be the best option. Please correct me if I am wrong.
All of the Solen Polypropylenes I need for both sides would only add up to about $260 Cdn or so, a small price to pay for a decent cap/upgrade in my opinion.
I will see if I can track down some new NP electrolytics of the same value so that I can do an A-B comparison. They are not very expensive and I would like to hear what the difference would be.
I am also going to use the Solen caps to replace factory caps where I can and use for bypass caps in one of the Hafler amps I am modifying.
Btw, I helped a friend win a set of Infinity RS1bs in very nice condition, a few weeks ago, can't wait to hear those too. Needless to say he is pretty excited about getting them. I will make sure he checks out the caps in his crossovers too.
Thanks again for your assistance!
I checked some of the dac/transports you mentioned and they do look like nice units to consider. The only setback is that even used, some of them still cost more than what I paid for the Betas. I might have to hold off on that purchase for awhile, but now you have given me some good names to watch out for, thank you very much.
In regards to swapping out the NP electrolytics:
I checked the solen.ca site and the Yellow Bennics (metalized polyester) are almost unbelievably inexpensive, but it would be hard to match up to the exact values I need with what they have in those.
Another option that they do have though which I like is the Metalized Polypropylene Capacitors. I believe I read that the polypropylene is a superior cap, plus these have a higher voltage (250V), and there is an exact match for 3 of the 4 caps I require.
The one value that do I need and that they do not have is 35 mfd, but I could make up that value with a 33mfd and 2 mfd in parallel. They do have a 36 mfd capacitor, but that may not be the best option. Please correct me if I am wrong.
All of the Solen Polypropylenes I need for both sides would only add up to about $260 Cdn or so, a small price to pay for a decent cap/upgrade in my opinion.
I will see if I can track down some new NP electrolytics of the same value so that I can do an A-B comparison. They are not very expensive and I would like to hear what the difference would be.
I am also going to use the Solen caps to replace factory caps where I can and use for bypass caps in one of the Hafler amps I am modifying.
Btw, I helped a friend win a set of Infinity RS1bs in very nice condition, a few weeks ago, can't wait to hear those too. Needless to say he is pretty excited about getting them. I will make sure he checks out the caps in his crossovers too.
Thanks again for your assistance!
Attachments
Hi msb64,
do not worry about 35mF or 34 or 36..........it is ok the same 😀
MKP normally is slightly better than MKT but not Because 250V versus 160V (and it is audible on the tweeter, not sure how you can expect
in a midbass............)
You can't have these high voltages on your speaker ! 😉
A-B comparision is the better thing you can make, imo experimentate
in first person is the way to go for learn.
I know Wadia are expansive, sometimes some little old models is offered ( for you lucky american and canadian guys!) at decent prices.
Wait a good offer.
There are others choices for DACs like Spectral or Threshold , Pass, but
they are expansive the same unfortunately.
Cheers,
Paolo
do not worry about 35mF or 34 or 36..........it is ok the same 😀
MKP normally is slightly better than MKT but not Because 250V versus 160V (and it is audible on the tweeter, not sure how you can expect
in a midbass............)
You can't have these high voltages on your speaker ! 😉
A-B comparision is the better thing you can make, imo experimentate
in first person is the way to go for learn.
I know Wadia are expansive, sometimes some little old models is offered ( for you lucky american and canadian guys!) at decent prices.
Wait a good offer.
There are others choices for DACs like Spectral or Threshold , Pass, but
they are expansive the same unfortunately.
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi Paolo
I moved the mid/high towers further away from the back wall the other day and boy did it make a huge difference. I now have them 4 feet off of the back wall and even though they take up more living room space, there is no way I will move them back.
I am still in the process of ordering parts, as well as doing some homework on components. I found some really good information on Tony Gee's website to help me decide what to try first. I even made up a set of cat5e cables as he describes and they do work surprisingly well. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/CAT5.html
Here is a good braiding how-to that I found to help me make them. http://seriss.com/opcs/install/braid.html I am going to track down some 23 gauge cat6 wire, and give them a try too. Here is a photo of the braided wire, with you use different colors, they have a snake skin look to them.
I will stick with the Solen caps to replace the n.p. electrolytics on the Betas as you recommended, but will make a different choice on the Hafler components. I have already ordered a bunch of Vishay MKP1837 .01 mfd caps, and will also be trying Sonicap Gen I .47 mfd and 5 mfd to run as bypass caps. All are very reasonable in price, and certainly worth trying, at least for me.
I finally got the Threshold S/350e on the mid/high towers, and although it sounds better than the S/300 series II and even the S/500e, the 80s modified Hafler DH200 still wins hands down. The soundstage is much deeper and more forward (more 3D) and it handles the upper frequencies much better. The plan so far is to work on an improved, possibly monoblock versions of the Hafler with Musical Concepts boards, toroids and additional p.s. caps to use in my system. For the cost involved, they would be pretty hard to match in performance. I haven't given up on the Threshold amps yet though, I have ordered new replacement Mallory caps for the big electrolytics in the S/500e and S/350 and will also update any other smaller electrolytics inside as well. I will then try running some of the bypass caps listed above on them to see if it helps.
I had a friend (with good ears) who is a die-hard vinyl and tube fan (Audio Research) come over and help me evaluate the changes. He ended up bringing over some cds to evaluate with and one of them really stood out. He had a soundtrack cd for the movie Apollo 13, track # 20 is Blue Moon by The Mavericks. I am not a big fan of country style music but that song is incredible. The lead singers' voice reminds me very much of Roy Orbison, and that song definitely belongs in any home audio testers collection. I ordered a "Best Of Mavericks" 20th Century Masters cd online to try and get the best possible recording I can of it. Definitely one of those "Wow" songs 🙂
I moved the mid/high towers further away from the back wall the other day and boy did it make a huge difference. I now have them 4 feet off of the back wall and even though they take up more living room space, there is no way I will move them back.
I am still in the process of ordering parts, as well as doing some homework on components. I found some really good information on Tony Gee's website to help me decide what to try first. I even made up a set of cat5e cables as he describes and they do work surprisingly well. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/CAT5.html
Here is a good braiding how-to that I found to help me make them. http://seriss.com/opcs/install/braid.html I am going to track down some 23 gauge cat6 wire, and give them a try too. Here is a photo of the braided wire, with you use different colors, they have a snake skin look to them.
I will stick with the Solen caps to replace the n.p. electrolytics on the Betas as you recommended, but will make a different choice on the Hafler components. I have already ordered a bunch of Vishay MKP1837 .01 mfd caps, and will also be trying Sonicap Gen I .47 mfd and 5 mfd to run as bypass caps. All are very reasonable in price, and certainly worth trying, at least for me.
I finally got the Threshold S/350e on the mid/high towers, and although it sounds better than the S/300 series II and even the S/500e, the 80s modified Hafler DH200 still wins hands down. The soundstage is much deeper and more forward (more 3D) and it handles the upper frequencies much better. The plan so far is to work on an improved, possibly monoblock versions of the Hafler with Musical Concepts boards, toroids and additional p.s. caps to use in my system. For the cost involved, they would be pretty hard to match in performance. I haven't given up on the Threshold amps yet though, I have ordered new replacement Mallory caps for the big electrolytics in the S/500e and S/350 and will also update any other smaller electrolytics inside as well. I will then try running some of the bypass caps listed above on them to see if it helps.
I had a friend (with good ears) who is a die-hard vinyl and tube fan (Audio Research) come over and help me evaluate the changes. He ended up bringing over some cds to evaluate with and one of them really stood out. He had a soundtrack cd for the movie Apollo 13, track # 20 is Blue Moon by The Mavericks. I am not a big fan of country style music but that song is incredible. The lead singers' voice reminds me very much of Roy Orbison, and that song definitely belongs in any home audio testers collection. I ordered a "Best Of Mavericks" 20th Century Masters cd online to try and get the best possible recording I can of it. Definitely one of those "Wow" songs 🙂
Attachments
msb64 said:
I was sure of this !
😀
For the amps, IMO we can't make definitive choices without a definitive source. Like the old issue " before the chicken or before the egg?"
is it also true the opposite but, in your specifical case I presume the source is the weak chain.
Beta's panel are tremendous loads for an amp. The ideal imo is a big
,hot,tubes amp with appropriate 2-3 ohms " selector"output.
Not sure but something like some older CJ's .....
With solid-state you'll have always some "grain"-fatigue IMO.
For the cables, I think beta's panel works the best with solid-core cables, but I admit it is refiniments 😎
Cheers,
Paolo
Paolo, you were definitely right on about that aspect, the difference is substantial, it expanded the sound stage tremendously.
They definitely need their "breathing room". It makes me wish I had even more room space to give them. More room width, height and length and then see how good they really can sound.
I agree with you 100% about having the best possible source, otherwise one may ending up choosing components downstream that mask or hide the source's deficiencies.
The Arcam player does have digital outputs to allow for a separate DAC, that may be a way that I can make the transition to a better source when funds permit.
I myself was thinking along the lines that it would be nice to have a tube preamp, a solid state amp on the bass towers, and tube poweramps on the mid/high towers.
I remember reading somewhere that Arnie Nudell stated that the IRS and IRS Betas where designed to be operated with Audio Research tube equipment, and I am pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. My friend is determined to track down an AR preamp and monoblocks, maybe when he gets them I can convince him to bring them over (with his turntable) for an extended test session. I have a feeling though, that I may not want to let them go 🙁
Thanks again for your input, it hasn't fallen upon deaf ears 🙂
Mike
They definitely need their "breathing room". It makes me wish I had even more room space to give them. More room width, height and length and then see how good they really can sound.
I agree with you 100% about having the best possible source, otherwise one may ending up choosing components downstream that mask or hide the source's deficiencies.
The Arcam player does have digital outputs to allow for a separate DAC, that may be a way that I can make the transition to a better source when funds permit.
I myself was thinking along the lines that it would be nice to have a tube preamp, a solid state amp on the bass towers, and tube poweramps on the mid/high towers.
I remember reading somewhere that Arnie Nudell stated that the IRS and IRS Betas where designed to be operated with Audio Research tube equipment, and I am pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. My friend is determined to track down an AR preamp and monoblocks, maybe when he gets them I can convince him to bring them over (with his turntable) for an extended test session. I have a feeling though, that I may not want to let them go 🙁
Thanks again for your input, it hasn't fallen upon deaf ears 🙂
Mike
Hi Mike,
Hey, it is a pleasure for me to help other diy passionate 😀
Forum is a strange place. You can't know who is from the other side of the screen . English is another problem, talking about with a "unknow" that write as a 5 years baby is not the best thing I believe.
Skepticism is guarantee 🙁
But I am confident things can go bettewr in the future.
Normally I talk only about things I know perfectly
, things I have direct experienced in my system ( in the last 20 years).
Plus I have very good ear and my methodology is rigorous.
If I am not sure I advise, no problem on this.
Back to your Beta's, I believe CJ or Manley can be better match than
Audio Research. You need soft, hot, sweet watts 😎
But the output "selector" in the output transformer is very important.
If I well remember, stereophile reviews showned a terrible impedance graphs, imho 4 ohm selector is not optimal. 3 or 2 ohm will be better.
Personally I don't think you need tons of watts, only the right output adapter.
Similar is for the preamp, the last generations of CJ is very interesting
as like an old Audible Illusion ( even more cheap!).
But Mike, don't you have a friend who have a minimum of skill with tubes? A line level preamp is "elementar", it is a game for boys make a basic 6N6 or ECC99 common cathode output.... and it sound perfect to match with your Infintys IMO.
Anyway maybe I'm going OT .
If your friend can put his turntable and his AR amps it will be a positive thing. Direct experience do not have soubstitute! 😀
I was forget the arcam. Yes you can use it as a player and connect with external DAC.
Some people report very good things about Lite DAC 60 or 72.
They have near minimalistic tube output stage and good BB dacs.
Cheap also. I am thinking to take one and modds
Cheers,
Paolo
Hey, it is a pleasure for me to help other diy passionate 😀
Forum is a strange place. You can't know who is from the other side of the screen . English is another problem, talking about with a "unknow" that write as a 5 years baby is not the best thing I believe.
Skepticism is guarantee 🙁
But I am confident things can go bettewr in the future.
Normally I talk only about things I know perfectly
, things I have direct experienced in my system ( in the last 20 years).Plus I have very good ear and my methodology is rigorous.
If I am not sure I advise, no problem on this.
Back to your Beta's, I believe CJ or Manley can be better match than
Audio Research. You need soft, hot, sweet watts 😎
But the output "selector" in the output transformer is very important.
If I well remember, stereophile reviews showned a terrible impedance graphs, imho 4 ohm selector is not optimal. 3 or 2 ohm will be better.
Personally I don't think you need tons of watts, only the right output adapter.
Similar is for the preamp, the last generations of CJ is very interesting
as like an old Audible Illusion ( even more cheap!).
But Mike, don't you have a friend who have a minimum of skill with tubes? A line level preamp is "elementar", it is a game for boys make a basic 6N6 or ECC99 common cathode output.... and it sound perfect to match with your Infintys IMO.
Anyway maybe I'm going OT .
If your friend can put his turntable and his AR amps it will be a positive thing. Direct experience do not have soubstitute! 😀
I was forget the arcam. Yes you can use it as a player and connect with external DAC.
Some people report very good things about Lite DAC 60 or 72.
They have near minimalistic tube output stage and good BB dacs.
Cheap also. I am thinking to take one and modds
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi Paolo
I checked out the Lite Audio DACs and they do look very interesting and relatively inexpensive too, as you had stated. Thanks for letting me know about them.
The Lite Audio DAC AM solid state unit looks interesting, but I figured I would give one of their tube models a try.
I ordered a Lite Audio DAC 60 Modified by Pacific Valve from the Pacific Valve & Electric Company, along with a pair of Jan Phillips 6922 tubes to try out. In this unit they upgrade some of the internal components, as well as make some circuit changes. It would be interesting to compare it to a stock DAC 60 unit to see what the circuit changes are. I will check to see if anything else can be easily tweaked, it looks like it should be very easy to mod.
I'll let you know how it all turns out.
I guess my car parts will have to wait a few more months 🙂
Mike
I checked out the Lite Audio DACs and they do look very interesting and relatively inexpensive too, as you had stated. Thanks for letting me know about them.
The Lite Audio DAC AM solid state unit looks interesting, but I figured I would give one of their tube models a try.
I ordered a Lite Audio DAC 60 Modified by Pacific Valve from the Pacific Valve & Electric Company, along with a pair of Jan Phillips 6922 tubes to try out. In this unit they upgrade some of the internal components, as well as make some circuit changes. It would be interesting to compare it to a stock DAC 60 unit to see what the circuit changes are. I will check to see if anything else can be easily tweaked, it looks like it should be very easy to mod.
I'll let you know how it all turns out.
I guess my car parts will have to wait a few more months 🙂
Mike
Attachments
Hi Mike,
I have do not understood completely your statement.
Do you have just ordered the DAC60? When ?Is it a coincidence?
Or do you have the DAC in your hand today?
I think Pacific Valve have made some modifications in the PSU and upgraded some caps, etc. Not sure if they have also modified the point of work of the ECC88 SRPP. 😕
IMHO, if the DAC has a standard 2V output levels, you can connect direct to the power amp by a 20K pot. ( threshold has 75K input and it is enough sensible).
As Nelson Pass says " less is better" ( I hope the citation is correct )
Always if you do not have to connect a turntable also !😀
Cheers,
Paolo
I have do not understood completely your statement.
Do you have just ordered the DAC60? When ?Is it a coincidence?
Or do you have the DAC in your hand today?
I think Pacific Valve have made some modifications in the PSU and upgraded some caps, etc. Not sure if they have also modified the point of work of the ECC88 SRPP. 😕
IMHO, if the DAC has a standard 2V output levels, you can connect direct to the power amp by a 20K pot. ( threshold has 75K input and it is enough sensible).
As Nelson Pass says " less is better" ( I hope the citation is correct
) Always if you do not have to connect a turntable also !😀
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi Paolo
After you had told me about the Lite DACs, I then went and did some checking on the internet and found them at the Pacific Valves website. I had never heard of them before.
I found some independent reviews online that said many good things about them too.
The price was reasonable as you had stated, so I thought I would give one a try.
I just ordered the unit yesterday, I should have it in about a week or so.
I ordered this model http://www.pacificvalve.us/LTDAC60M.html and also ordered the Jan Phillips tubes to go with it, as the supplied Sovek tubes are not rated very well.
I am aware that most cd players, dacs etc have fairly high outputs that are capable of directly driving an amplifier, and a simple volume control can be made up to connect the two.
I have heard in some cases this may not give the best sound, as the preamp can act as a buffer between the 2 devices. Direct coupling of the 2 may cause some undesirable results. In any case a simple volume control is easy to make and try, and I will try it for sure.
I want to try some component changes myself later on too, when my parts arrive.
I will let you know how it turns out. thanks again!
Mike
After you had told me about the Lite DACs, I then went and did some checking on the internet and found them at the Pacific Valves website. I had never heard of them before.
I found some independent reviews online that said many good things about them too.
The price was reasonable as you had stated, so I thought I would give one a try.
I just ordered the unit yesterday, I should have it in about a week or so.
I ordered this model http://www.pacificvalve.us/LTDAC60M.html and also ordered the Jan Phillips tubes to go with it, as the supplied Sovek tubes are not rated very well.
I am aware that most cd players, dacs etc have fairly high outputs that are capable of directly driving an amplifier, and a simple volume control can be made up to connect the two.
I have heard in some cases this may not give the best sound, as the preamp can act as a buffer between the 2 devices. Direct coupling of the 2 may cause some undesirable results. In any case a simple volume control is easy to make and try, and I will try it for sure.
I want to try some component changes myself later on too, when my parts arrive.
I will let you know how it turns out. thanks again!
Mike
WOW!
Mike I am embarassed
You have follow only my word. I am extremly glad of this😎
I think you have a real bargain with the Lite60.
I am very interested also in that DAC so I want ask you a favour:
Can you ask to Pacific Valve the electrical schematic of the analog output stage? ( even also the digital would be appreciate🙄 )
Because chinese-sellers are not disponible to give me the wiring diagram, even if I purchase the DAC!
About passive Vs active preamp I think magazines have big/bad contribute on this point.
They have to "inform" the readers , not think only to make happy
preamp's factoryes
In your specyfical case you are lucky: The Zout of the DAC is "low"
( about 1K- and capable of discrete current) and the Zin of the Threshold is high ( 75K, thanks Nelson!).
If you take signal cable short ( after the pot) you can go direct
without any problem😀
Take a good pot for try, not over 20K , and listen yourself.
Excerpt I do not know Zin of the Hafler, this can be a problem.
Another reason to have tubes amps is they have HIGH Zin .....
You have to check also the Beta's electronic crossover.
I believe to remember the high pass is symply "duplicate"- No filter nor buffer here- . The low pass has his buffer.
You have to check the exact values on the manuals to be sure
the passive can work without issues.
Cheers,
Paolo
Mike I am embarassed
You have follow only my word. I am extremly glad of this😎
I think you have a real bargain with the Lite60.
I am very interested also in that DAC so I want ask you a favour:
Can you ask to Pacific Valve the electrical schematic of the analog output stage? ( even also the digital would be appreciate🙄 )
Because chinese-sellers are not disponible to give me the wiring diagram, even if I purchase the DAC!
About passive Vs active preamp I think magazines have big/bad contribute on this point.
They have to "inform" the readers , not think only to make happy
preamp's factoryes
In your specyfical case you are lucky: The Zout of the DAC is "low"
( about 1K- and capable of discrete current) and the Zin of the Threshold is high ( 75K, thanks Nelson!).
If you take signal cable short ( after the pot) you can go direct
without any problem😀
Take a good pot for try, not over 20K , and listen yourself.
Excerpt I do not know Zin of the Hafler, this can be a problem.
Another reason to have tubes amps is they have HIGH Zin .....
You have to check also the Beta's electronic crossover.
I believe to remember the high pass is symply "duplicate"- No filter nor buffer here- . The low pass has his buffer.
You have to check the exact values on the manuals to be sure
the passive can work without issues.
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi Paolo
I asked about schematics for the Lite 60 DAC unit, but had no luck.
Pacific Valve states that as part of the agreement they have with their suppliers, they cannot release the schematics.
The units appear to be layed out internally with plenty of room to make modifications fairly straight forward.
I can't wait to get mine and try it out.
I didn't realize that the input impedance of the Thresholds were as high as 75K. I checked with the Hafler manuals, and they state the stock DH200s are 22K and the stock DH220s are 47K.
Because of the great results I have had with my 80s Pooge modified DH200, the plan so far is to build 4 Hafler monoblocks.
I will use Musical Concepts boards in a pair of DH200s for the mid/high towers, and a pair of modified DH220s for the bass towers.
It will be nice to get working on them, when all of the parts finally get here.
The bypass on the servo box for the mid/high towers is just that, no additional electronics are involved, basically just a splitter. The same thing can be done by branching off the outputs right from the source (or the preamp as per Infinity Beta manual).
I asked about schematics for the Lite 60 DAC unit, but had no luck.
Pacific Valve states that as part of the agreement they have with their suppliers, they cannot release the schematics.
The units appear to be layed out internally with plenty of room to make modifications fairly straight forward.
I can't wait to get mine and try it out.
I didn't realize that the input impedance of the Thresholds were as high as 75K. I checked with the Hafler manuals, and they state the stock DH200s are 22K and the stock DH220s are 47K.
Because of the great results I have had with my 80s Pooge modified DH200, the plan so far is to build 4 Hafler monoblocks.
I will use Musical Concepts boards in a pair of DH200s for the mid/high towers, and a pair of modified DH220s for the bass towers.
It will be nice to get working on them, when all of the parts finally get here.
The bypass on the servo box for the mid/high towers is just that, no additional electronics are involved, basically just a splitter. The same thing can be done by branching off the outputs right from the source (or the preamp as per Infinity Beta manual).
Thanks Mike.
These people make me "furious"😡
If I purchase a electrodomestic I have legal right to have the wiring schematic ( in europe)!
They are anacronistic and near "out of the law" IMO!!
In my country we says " the Pulcinella secret "
I hope some nice DIY guy look the internal of the DAC60 and can post the schematic in all the forums !😎
It is sure a very elementar PSU ( for sure a mediocrity PSU) who can seriously degradate the sound quality.
Do we are asking too much? I do not believe .
The digital part:
Very simple also. De-emphasis are OFF ( very bad thing)
There is not a switch for absolute polarity. ( even worse!)
There is not a switch for swap the digital filter from brickwall to slow rolloff. ( bad again)
About 47Kohm for the DH220 it is still workable IMO.
Maybe with a pot of only 10-15Kohm.
I have nothing Vs Hafler but remain of my idea for TUBES😉 Those emit-emim are like razors !!
Have goods experimentations and listening sessions Mike ! 🙂
Cheers,
Paolo
These people make me "furious"😡
If I purchase a electrodomestic I have legal right to have the wiring schematic ( in europe)!
They are anacronistic and near "out of the law" IMO!!
In my country we says " the Pulcinella secret "
I hope some nice DIY guy look the internal of the DAC60 and can post the schematic in all the forums !😎
It is sure a very elementar PSU ( for sure a mediocrity PSU) who can seriously degradate the sound quality.
Do we are asking too much? I do not believe .
The digital part:
Very simple also. De-emphasis are OFF ( very bad thing)
There is not a switch for absolute polarity. ( even worse!)
There is not a switch for swap the digital filter from brickwall to slow rolloff. ( bad again)
About 47Kohm for the DH220 it is still workable IMO.
Maybe with a pot of only 10-15Kohm.
I have nothing Vs Hafler but remain of my idea for TUBES😉 Those emit-emim are like razors !!
Have goods experimentations and listening sessions Mike ! 🙂
Cheers,
Paolo
Hi Paolo
I received my modified DAC last friday, and it is a nice looking piece.
It is also a decent sounding unit, even with the stock Sovtek tubes.
I never got to try the Philips tubes because I only received one of them, the other box had another Sovtek tube in it. They are sending me out a replacement for it.
The bass is very nice, solid, quick and low reaching. The mids are much warmer and more forward, but the highs are a little subdued, at least for my liking. I installed a couple of Vishay MKP .01ufd bypass caps on the Jantzen 4.7ufd caps and it helped quite a bit. I will probably install something better to replace the Jantzens though.
It is hard to judge exactly what has been modded in this unit, because I don't have a stock unit to compare it to. My best guess is mainly component substitutions as there doesn't appear to be any wiring or board changes. Besides the Jantzen caps, there are other polypropylenes and many of the electrolytics (if not all) are Elna caps. Plenty of space inside the unit too, makes mods much easier.
It would be nice to get a hold of a stock unit, and upgrade the various components with my own choices. A schematic would have been handy to help pinpoint key signal path components, and probably would have helped for design mod considerations as well.
I took a bunch of images of both sides of the board, if you would like to see them, I can send them to you. They are high enough quality that you can zoom in on them.
I took apart my Pooge modified Hafler amp, to start the whole monoblock conversion process.
I definitely need to spend a few $ on some large PS caps now, and maybe even some larger toroidal transformers later on.
Mike
I received my modified DAC last friday, and it is a nice looking piece.
It is also a decent sounding unit, even with the stock Sovtek tubes.
I never got to try the Philips tubes because I only received one of them, the other box had another Sovtek tube in it. They are sending me out a replacement for it.
The bass is very nice, solid, quick and low reaching. The mids are much warmer and more forward, but the highs are a little subdued, at least for my liking. I installed a couple of Vishay MKP .01ufd bypass caps on the Jantzen 4.7ufd caps and it helped quite a bit. I will probably install something better to replace the Jantzens though.
It is hard to judge exactly what has been modded in this unit, because I don't have a stock unit to compare it to. My best guess is mainly component substitutions as there doesn't appear to be any wiring or board changes. Besides the Jantzen caps, there are other polypropylenes and many of the electrolytics (if not all) are Elna caps. Plenty of space inside the unit too, makes mods much easier.
It would be nice to get a hold of a stock unit, and upgrade the various components with my own choices. A schematic would have been handy to help pinpoint key signal path components, and probably would have helped for design mod considerations as well.
I took a bunch of images of both sides of the board, if you would like to see them, I can send them to you. They are high enough quality that you can zoom in on them.
I took apart my Pooge modified Hafler amp, to start the whole monoblock conversion process.
I definitely need to spend a few $ on some large PS caps now, and maybe even some larger toroidal transformers later on.
Mike
Hi Mike,
man, we are clamourosly OT here!😀
Maybe you could be open a thread in the digital (?) or tubes ( better)
section.
I think you can post photo and ask if someone kind guy know the schematic😉
About the "soft" highs I think it is normal, you come from crappy ICs !
IMO keep the Sowtek, they are famous to be "open" on the highs and are not microphonics too😎
If you do not like the "soft" try to open slightly the EMIT-SEMIT control.....
Moreover, excuse me If I am repetitive, try to jump the preamplifier!
About the mods I think you are correct. Parts soubstitutions, not circuit modifications I believe.
If you want big modds you have to look the "Brigatta".
But I am sure a complete PSU redesign could will be miracles, here.
To not talk about the SRPP......I do not like that🙁
Cheers,
Paolo
man, we are clamourosly OT here!😀
Maybe you could be open a thread in the digital (?) or tubes ( better)
section.
I think you can post photo and ask if someone kind guy know the schematic😉
About the "soft" highs I think it is normal, you come from crappy ICs !
IMO keep the Sowtek, they are famous to be "open" on the highs and are not microphonics too😎
If you do not like the "soft" try to open slightly the EMIT-SEMIT control.....
Moreover, excuse me If I am repetitive, try to jump the preamplifier!
About the mods I think you are correct. Parts soubstitutions, not circuit modifications I believe.
If you want big modds you have to look the "Brigatta".
But I am sure a complete PSU redesign could will be miracles, here.
To not talk about the SRPP......I do not like that🙁
Cheers,
Paolo
I finally got around to ordering caps for the crossovers.
Ended up ordering Solen MKP PA series caps to replace all the oem NP electrolytics.
As you can see in the pictures, the biggest ones were huge, about the size of a tomato juice can.
The replaced caps were 300 mfd, 150 mfd, 36 mfd and 20 mfd.
Fortunately the mid/high tower bases had enough room to install the upgrade caps.
The change was immediately noticable and surprisingly significant.
The already "open" and "revealing" betas became even more open, it was like a blanket had been covering the speakers and was suddenly removed.
According to some sources, the sound/peformance should improve with time, it will be interesting to see if this actually pans out.
If it does improve, that would be a definite plus, but it is already a good return on invested time and funds as it is.
I can definitely recommend this mod, a substantial improvement for only about $318 Cdn (includes shipping cost) worth of parts.
This is even with a ss Threshold preamp, I have yet to try my Musical Design SP2B tube preamp, which has a nice Direct input feature.
I am also using a Lite 60 DAC modified unit from Pacific Valve, that I have also made some bypass cap changes to myself according to recommendations made by Tony Gee on his humblehomemadehifi.com website, well worth checking out.
I can also confirm that the Vishay Mkp1837 .01 mfd Mkp caps are real performers, after having tried them on various tube and solid state preamps as well as several solid state amps.
I ended ordering 60 of them from Allied Electronics (MKP1837-310-011) for only $1.47 US each plus shipping
As per Inertials recommendations, I am looking into replacing the 3 oem iron core inductors with Solen litz air core inductors. Price works out to be only around $200 Cdn, it is just a matter of determining if the upgrade components can be properly installed and secured in the available space.
Ended up ordering Solen MKP PA series caps to replace all the oem NP electrolytics.
As you can see in the pictures, the biggest ones were huge, about the size of a tomato juice can.
The replaced caps were 300 mfd, 150 mfd, 36 mfd and 20 mfd.
Fortunately the mid/high tower bases had enough room to install the upgrade caps.
The change was immediately noticable and surprisingly significant.
The already "open" and "revealing" betas became even more open, it was like a blanket had been covering the speakers and was suddenly removed.
According to some sources, the sound/peformance should improve with time, it will be interesting to see if this actually pans out.
If it does improve, that would be a definite plus, but it is already a good return on invested time and funds as it is.
I can definitely recommend this mod, a substantial improvement for only about $318 Cdn (includes shipping cost) worth of parts.
This is even with a ss Threshold preamp, I have yet to try my Musical Design SP2B tube preamp, which has a nice Direct input feature.
I am also using a Lite 60 DAC modified unit from Pacific Valve, that I have also made some bypass cap changes to myself according to recommendations made by Tony Gee on his humblehomemadehifi.com website, well worth checking out.
I can also confirm that the Vishay Mkp1837 .01 mfd Mkp caps are real performers, after having tried them on various tube and solid state preamps as well as several solid state amps.
I ended ordering 60 of them from Allied Electronics (MKP1837-310-011) for only $1.47 US each plus shipping
As per Inertials recommendations, I am looking into replacing the 3 oem iron core inductors with Solen litz air core inductors. Price works out to be only around $200 Cdn, it is just a matter of determining if the upgrade components can be properly installed and secured in the available space.
Attachments
Hi Mike,
I read with great interest your discussions with other forum members on the IRS Betas. I have just taken my pair out of storage after 12 years. It has taken me 7 years to build a new house, so now I have a dedicated room that is finally big enough. I will be ordering some of the Solen caps to do your upgrade. Thanks for the insights. BTW, I am using a VTL TL 7.5 preamp, VTL Siegfrieds for the mids / tops and at present some JRDG 201 amps for the bass towers as a temporary "fix" till I can find an amp that I like the sound of. I used to use 2 x bridged Plinius SA 250's, but sold them years ago. I run the Sigs direct from the preamp in balanced mode and use a second pre out to drive the single ended servo controller & bass amps. Have you seen any suggestions on using the later balanced Infinity servo units with Betas ?
Cheers,
Paul
I read with great interest your discussions with other forum members on the IRS Betas. I have just taken my pair out of storage after 12 years. It has taken me 7 years to build a new house, so now I have a dedicated room that is finally big enough. I will be ordering some of the Solen caps to do your upgrade. Thanks for the insights. BTW, I am using a VTL TL 7.5 preamp, VTL Siegfrieds for the mids / tops and at present some JRDG 201 amps for the bass towers as a temporary "fix" till I can find an amp that I like the sound of. I used to use 2 x bridged Plinius SA 250's, but sold them years ago. I run the Sigs direct from the preamp in balanced mode and use a second pre out to drive the single ended servo controller & bass amps. Have you seen any suggestions on using the later balanced Infinity servo units with Betas ?
Cheers,
Paul
If you mean running a later model servo like from the Epsilons, I faintly remember someone mentioning that, but cannot remember where. Usually those servo boxes go for fairly big dollars too, the odd time that they do pop up. I know of at least a couple of infinity speaker modders in the U.S., I believe one is retired and the other is still selling systems and components on eBay. I haven't had any issues with my Betas at all, and have just recently completed a pair of modified mono Hafler DH220s for the mid/high towers. They sound pretty decent already, but the plan is to eventually upgrade those with Musical Concepts boards, or just build another pair of mono units for them.
Buzz
Thanks MSB64
I have modded the servo unit to accept a balanced input & fitted XLR connectors into the servo. The only problem I have now is that when I run the unbalanced outputs from the servo as well as the balanced outputs to the VTLs I got a bad buzz as the balanced amps were being " unbalanced" so the fix was to fit a transformer coupled DI box between the servo and my Jeff Rowland 525 monoblocks running in BTL mode. Now sounds very good. Next step is to upgrade the caps in the passive crossovers of the mid towers.
Thanks MSB64
I have modded the servo unit to accept a balanced input & fitted XLR connectors into the servo. The only problem I have now is that when I run the unbalanced outputs from the servo as well as the balanced outputs to the VTLs I got a bad buzz as the balanced amps were being " unbalanced" so the fix was to fit a transformer coupled DI box between the servo and my Jeff Rowland 525 monoblocks running in BTL mode. Now sounds very good. Next step is to upgrade the caps in the passive crossovers of the mid towers.
Hi,
if I can permit to say, as ex owner of INFINITY delta, i know very well good planar transducers by INFINTY.
IMHO the weak point is the hard 24 dB /oct filter of the BETAs.🤐
see stereophil emeasurement...😱
I would be very pleased to assist in a more natural , transient perfect crossover for BETAs, which deserve a lot .😎
one more a special flat impedance is also possible and not so low as you can think 😀
the system 'll remain biamp active,
but with new 4 way passive crossover.
I 'm a specialist and do not ask nada if the result 'll be not of your pleasure🙂
cheers
if I can permit to say, as ex owner of INFINITY delta, i know very well good planar transducers by INFINTY.
IMHO the weak point is the hard 24 dB /oct filter of the BETAs.🤐
see stereophil emeasurement...😱
I would be very pleased to assist in a more natural , transient perfect crossover for BETAs, which deserve a lot .😎
one more a special flat impedance is also possible and not so low as you can think 😀
the system 'll remain biamp active,
but with new 4 way passive crossover.
I 'm a specialist and do not ask nada if the result 'll be not of your pleasure🙂
cheers
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