I wonder what a LR with SEAS alum or mag drivers and 27TBFC/G tweets would sound like? I'd even consider trying one with the Dayton 5.5" aluminum woofs. Dream dream dream...
BTW - an earlier post asked what drivers (woofs) are in the Needle - the link in the next post didn't seem to connect with a real page that showed anything - could somebody just post what they are? Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread.
BTW - an earlier post asked what drivers (woofs) are in the Needle - the link in the next post didn't seem to connect with a real page that showed anything - could somebody just post what they are? Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread.
Thank you sir! 😉 The Tang Band is very reasonably priced also. The description at PE says it has a "silver coated paper cone" - do they mean real silver? If so never heard of this before - combining paper and metal. Neat.
It appears that CSS no longer sells the Needle kit, they have a line array kit that appears to be pricier:sdclc126 said:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=AlphaLS
Hello. Considering CCS no longer sells the Needles, is it possible to find details on how to build a pair for my personal use? peterpan
Make Google your friend:peterpan said:
http://www.audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers/messages/648.html
Can you tell us Jim, why the choice of the W3-871S?
I have several, a nice dirver, but limited in the low end, for sure. Also has a big 10K peak.
So why use a semi-fullrange driver if you are going to use a tweeter and sub anyway? What is it about the W3-871S that you liked enough to use 16 of them for this project?
Can you explain the concept?
Thanks.
I have several, a nice dirver, but limited in the low end, for sure. Also has a big 10K peak.
So why use a semi-fullrange driver if you are going to use a tweeter and sub anyway? What is it about the W3-871S that you liked enough to use 16 of them for this project?
Can you explain the concept?
Thanks.
As an aside, using smaller drivers (rather than, say, 4" to 5" midbass drivers) allows setting higher crossover point to tweeter because of smaller CTC distance. With using a single ribbon (rather than ribbon array), this means there is more line-array effect over larger bandwidth.
I should hope everyone on this thread has read the nflawp.
I should hope everyone on this thread has read the nflawp.
Dumbass said:
Yes of course, and as it says it my post, I own several and like them. So no criticism of the driver.
I have read Jim's white paper, but was just wondering why this driver? Was hoping Jim might shed a little light on why he picked the w3-871. What are its properties he likes and doesn't like?
And if he picked it "just for the fun of it" - that's OK! But I would still like to know what he thinks of the driver's strengths and weaknesses in a line array.
BG dipole construction
Some final pics of construction...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/TEST1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/TEST2.jpg
note: subwoofer in background from ~80 hz on down to ~16 Hz
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WOOF1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WOO.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/BAFFLE1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WINGCL1.jpg
BG RD-75 planar midrange
The woofer cab is tuned to ~48 hz with 2 x 6.5" peerless HDS wpeakers...
main wing baffle is solid 1" cherry
2 peerless dome tweeters (one now faces rearward out of phase with front..
and panasonic EAS-10TH400A supertweeter from ~7Khz on up to ultrasonics
auplater
Some final pics of construction...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/TEST1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/TEST2.jpg
note: subwoofer in background from ~80 hz on down to ~16 Hz
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WOOF1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WOO.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/BAFFLE1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/auplater/WINGCL1.jpg
BG RD-75 planar midrange
The woofer cab is tuned to ~48 hz with 2 x 6.5" peerless HDS wpeakers...
main wing baffle is solid 1" cherry
2 peerless dome tweeters (one now faces rearward out of phase with front..
and panasonic EAS-10TH400A supertweeter from ~7Khz on up to ultrasonics
auplater
A Few Answers on the Needles Design
The Needles design was my attempt to derive a quality sounding line array in a smaller enclosure than what you normally would have if you built a full range near field array with side by side lines of woofers and tweeters. Thus some compromises were in order to reduce the cabinet size which impacts the low frequency capability of the speaker. My intent was that the user would augment the low end of the band with a subwoofer to cover say the bottom two octaves or so. This meant that low end capability for the array would only need to be say 120 Hz.
This array operates as a near field line array over the range of the woofer line. I'll call the W3-871S woofers in this discussion although they cover only down to 120 Hz or so. I found that the line array effect is well replicated with this design although the speaker acts as a line array only up to the crossover point. The idea was to use balance the line array's acoustical output with that of the single tweeter at the listening distance from the source. The single ribbon tweeter was used to provide the great highs that you get from a ribbon. While you don't get all of the benefits of a near field line array across the entire band, the design works quite well for its intent. Power tapering of the woofer line helps to blend the line array with the tweeter.
On my choice of the TB W3-871S driver for the woofer line was because of its reasonable cost and its ability to deliver good mid range into the 2000-4000 Hz area. Again remember I'm not looking for the lowest lows with this driver. Now as most of realize, when you array drivers the center to center spacing limits their ability to replicate the upper frequency range because of comb lining and the roll off of sensitivity for the highs. That excellent frequency response of a single driver quickly degrades as you bring other drivers close together.
Finally, the question of the silver coating on the W3-871s keeps coming up. The cone of these drivers is paper and the coating is just silver paint as far as I know.
Those who have heard the Needles augumented with a subwoofer have very postive comments. While it is not the end solution to sonic pleasure for most people, it is a reasonable compromise within the limits of size and performance.
Jim
P.S. Several of you have asked about plans and I can provide them to those of you who are really, really serious about building the Needles. All drivers and other parts are still available so they can be cloned.
The Needles design was my attempt to derive a quality sounding line array in a smaller enclosure than what you normally would have if you built a full range near field array with side by side lines of woofers and tweeters. Thus some compromises were in order to reduce the cabinet size which impacts the low frequency capability of the speaker. My intent was that the user would augment the low end of the band with a subwoofer to cover say the bottom two octaves or so. This meant that low end capability for the array would only need to be say 120 Hz.
This array operates as a near field line array over the range of the woofer line. I'll call the W3-871S woofers in this discussion although they cover only down to 120 Hz or so. I found that the line array effect is well replicated with this design although the speaker acts as a line array only up to the crossover point. The idea was to use balance the line array's acoustical output with that of the single tweeter at the listening distance from the source. The single ribbon tweeter was used to provide the great highs that you get from a ribbon. While you don't get all of the benefits of a near field line array across the entire band, the design works quite well for its intent. Power tapering of the woofer line helps to blend the line array with the tweeter.
On my choice of the TB W3-871S driver for the woofer line was because of its reasonable cost and its ability to deliver good mid range into the 2000-4000 Hz area. Again remember I'm not looking for the lowest lows with this driver. Now as most of realize, when you array drivers the center to center spacing limits their ability to replicate the upper frequency range because of comb lining and the roll off of sensitivity for the highs. That excellent frequency response of a single driver quickly degrades as you bring other drivers close together.
Finally, the question of the silver coating on the W3-871s keeps coming up. The cone of these drivers is paper and the coating is just silver paint as far as I know.
Those who have heard the Needles augumented with a subwoofer have very postive comments. While it is not the end solution to sonic pleasure for most people, it is a reasonable compromise within the limits of size and performance.
Jim
P.S. Several of you have asked about plans and I can provide them to those of you who are really, really serious about building the Needles. All drivers and other parts are still available so they can be cloned.
Hi Jim!
Could you tell me how did you connected the 16 pieces of TB drivers?
How much impedance and sensitivity did you get?
Greets:
Tyimo
Could you tell me how did you connected the 16 pieces of TB drivers?
How much impedance and sensitivity did you get?
Greets:
Tyimo
You can connect them 4/4/4/4 (4 series in 4 parallel groups) and yield an 8 ohms array impedance (the W3-871S is 8 ohms nominal impedance. The theoretical array gain would be 12 dB for such connection. Of course your gain would best be measured and you'll have to include baffle step compensation as well.
I also tried 5/3/3/5 which has a slightly lower impedance and a little more gain.
I also tried 5/3/3/5 which has a slightly lower impedance and a little more gain.
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