If memory serves, the short answer is that the width is required to distribute and dissipate heat.
Another factor is that race compound tires wear very quickly, and there is a limit to how thick the rubber can be made due to squirm of the rubber under cornering loads. In fact if races are short, sometimes the tires are shaved down to reduce rubber thickness and improve performance. By making a tire wider, rubber wear is distributed across the width of the tire, so the rubber can be kept reasonably thin.
Tires, especially width, are a core part of the formula. Namely, in open wheel racing they're gigantic aerodynamic bricks that keep top speeds a little slower, but aid in low speed corners. There's also plenty of nonlinearity in tire pressure/contact patch shape and coefficient of friction vs. load. Oh, and wear, which, all else equal, a wider tire will win (on simply having more rubber around to work with).
Back when I did Formula SAE (seriously cool stuff to work on), we did a lot of kinematics analysis on suspension and tire loading. In our case, wider wasn't necessarily better, but F1 demands are a *little* bit different.
As Anatolyi France once famously remarked: ´If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.´.
Jan
Here's an article about the new 2017 Formula 1 spec, wherein wider tires are just one ingredient in the recipe.
John, how tyres work and affect driving you can easily evaluate for yourself by simply changing them by general type and dimensions. You don't need F1, just remember that due to driving conditions what you get in personal evaluation you'll get on F1 as well, but more pronounced.
Last summer, I was a little surprised when my wife said thatg the current (summer) tyres I use (from Michelin, standard 205 R 17, were audibly more silent than the ones before (Cooper Avon), my wife whose concerns regarding cars boil down to having an air con and a decent music system. Michelin is usually hell bent on low road noise and energy efficiency (low rolling resistence), and make good on most of their claims in those regards. To that, I would add also excellent road holding on wet surfaces, better than most, one of class leaders, but by no means unique (in this respect, Continental and some Goodyear models hold their own as well).
Race tires, like F1 tires, have little thread in a struggle to use as much surface as possible and pay little attention to road rolling noise. But grip is improved, side walls are as little angled as they can be and are reinforced for really naughty speeds compared to normal tyres.
Thus, there is no simple answer to which tyres are best, since they are adjusted by design for the type of driving reqired under given conditions. F1 is one set of conditions, but rally is quite another as you are expected to wallow in mud no end.
For regular driving you and I are most likely to do, my personal choice would be Michelin tyres, but not 215 R 17 as recommended by GM for my Chey Cruze, ather the ones I have now, 205 R 17, which reduces the width for the benefit of improving traction under adverse conditions, such as wet roads. But then, that's just my opinion, a more aggressive driver will probably go for 215 R 17, and even 225 R 17 for tackling sharp curves.
Last summer, I was a little surprised when my wife said thatg the current (summer) tyres I use (from Michelin, standard 205 R 17, were audibly more silent than the ones before (Cooper Avon), my wife whose concerns regarding cars boil down to having an air con and a decent music system. Michelin is usually hell bent on low road noise and energy efficiency (low rolling resistence), and make good on most of their claims in those regards. To that, I would add also excellent road holding on wet surfaces, better than most, one of class leaders, but by no means unique (in this respect, Continental and some Goodyear models hold their own as well).
Race tires, like F1 tires, have little thread in a struggle to use as much surface as possible and pay little attention to road rolling noise. But grip is improved, side walls are as little angled as they can be and are reinforced for really naughty speeds compared to normal tyres.
Thus, there is no simple answer to which tyres are best, since they are adjusted by design for the type of driving reqired under given conditions. F1 is one set of conditions, but rally is quite another as you are expected to wallow in mud no end.
For regular driving you and I are most likely to do, my personal choice would be Michelin tyres, but not 215 R 17 as recommended by GM for my Chey Cruze, ather the ones I have now, 205 R 17, which reduces the width for the benefit of improving traction under adverse conditions, such as wet roads. But then, that's just my opinion, a more aggressive driver will probably go for 215 R 17, and even 225 R 17 for tackling sharp curves.
Last edited:
Here is an interesting discussion of just this issue... Refers to "THE RACING & HIGH-PERFORMANCE TIRE" which I can't say I've read, but sounds like a great resource!
See also:
Pelican Technical Article: Physics of Racing Series
John, did you know that a set of four tyres (two front and two back) for the Bugatti Weyron cost, as a set, €20,000 or app US$ 21,000? Wanna drift at those prices?
Too much? For a vehicle costing over $1.5 million? With a quad turbo V16 engine?
Well, it's hard to say. That tin can has been proved to be capable of speeds in excess of 400 km/h or app.250 mph. At such speeds, tyres will in any case become quite warm, yet they still must keep the car on the right track in a fully controlled drive condition. A blowout at such speeds is completely unforgiving.
A bit like aeroplane tyres. They are not much to look at, but they have to carry like 250 tons of airplane at take off or landing speeds of some 160 knots and accelerate from standstill to full speed when landing. Who's going to argue the prices?
Too much? For a vehicle costing over $1.5 million? With a quad turbo V16 engine?
Well, it's hard to say. That tin can has been proved to be capable of speeds in excess of 400 km/h or app.250 mph. At such speeds, tyres will in any case become quite warm, yet they still must keep the car on the right track in a fully controlled drive condition. A blowout at such speeds is completely unforgiving.
A bit like aeroplane tyres. They are not much to look at, but they have to carry like 250 tons of airplane at take off or landing speeds of some 160 knots and accelerate from standstill to full speed when landing. Who's going to argue the prices?
Funny that the BS here follows the idiots writing the reviews like the one John posted often too closely. If you actually research what "this large number of people" hear it's' "I hate you, but I love you". Case in point google op-amp rolling and spend a few hours.
Even JC follows it!
@JC earlier, when asked about this ad you posted, you said you are a physicist but couldn´t follow the JB stuff. But when I, as a non/physicist read that C13 ´goes to a higher energy level´ or something like that, I immediately thought ´where does that extra energy come from´. Why don´t you as a physicist ask yourself such questions??
Jan
Nothing new, energy out of passive devices is a common thread in JB's claims. This stuff is no more credible than the spoon benders or other sleight of hand.
Scott, Scott, Scott,
So nice to see you and the others all behave exactly as predicted when your chain gets jerked!
"News" sources that are nonsense except to their true believers, wonder where that would go?
Doing a presentation next week where the properties of sound propigation in air at the specific site is an important consideration. Yes it is a smidgen bigger scale than your listening room, but at what scale does the issue go away.
But one could try an interesting experiment. Does placing an ionizing smoke detector in a familiar listening space make a perceived change?
O.k. now lets get our feet back on terra firma maybe this movie will help to find reality
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/299635-autoranger-soundcards-18.html#post5031352
If that is not working for you (general speaking not pointing at any one in particular) then we could start a thread about the next possible improvement and why it failed.
Amplifier Institute Failures (look at project #8)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/equipment-tools/299635-autoranger-soundcards-18.html#post5031352
If that is not working for you (general speaking not pointing at any one in particular) then we could start a thread about the next possible improvement and why it failed.
Amplifier Institute Failures (look at project #8)
Humidity, non-uniform temperature, gradients due to HVAC all matter in huge venues, I already posted Dave Greisinger's measurements. Action at a distance with no source of energy does not fall into consideration, it's all made up nonsense, Star Trek physics (Quantum Slipstream Drive).
EDIT - Ed the real problem is that we continue to respond rather than just ignore it.
Last edited:
F=uR. Wider tyres give less grip unless something else changes (which of course it does).
Of course we have not defined grip at this point
- Status
- Not open for further replies.