when covering the midbass, and only moderately high sensitivity is demanded due to having a certain amount of amplifier power available and drift away from low power SE tube amplifiers, I believe a K can work as a midbass horn substitute. Their dispersion patterns may work better with a horn substitute such as a slotted pipe, giving another set of compromises. A 10 inch driver Karlson may be adequate for a modest size room, and X15 size (~4.2 cublc bulk) carried on by Acoustic Control and others viable and compact.
there may be some horns which blend well with a bass/midbass K-coupler - my 250Hz Edgarhorn did not work well with K15, while a big radial did pretty well as a midhorn.
12" driver horn ~ 7 cubic foot - sorry no details available
Edgarhorn 100Hz "hypex' w. JBL2220H 80sq.in. throat, 20.5"x20.5" mouth, 20.5" path
Acoustic 115BK with EV15L - ~4.3 cubic foot bulk
fancy home version built by one of the Transylvania Power Company team
Peavey FH1 outdoors - like a 6 invch deeper and better braced version of PWK's "Belle'
8 cubic foot K-coupler with 18" driver
Ray Newman's EV Sentry IV loaded with two Pyle PYM1298 in parallel (~ like Kappa 12a)
Karlsonator12 - the Karlsonator by GregB features an offset driver,
lower tuning and lower cutoff vs regular K of similar bulk
there may be some horns which blend well with a bass/midbass K-coupler - my 250Hz Edgarhorn did not work well with K15, while a big radial did pretty well as a midhorn.
12" driver horn ~ 7 cubic foot - sorry no details available
Edgarhorn 100Hz "hypex' w. JBL2220H 80sq.in. throat, 20.5"x20.5" mouth, 20.5" path
Acoustic 115BK with EV15L - ~4.3 cubic foot bulk
fancy home version built by one of the Transylvania Power Company team
Peavey FH1 outdoors - like a 6 invch deeper and better braced version of PWK's "Belle'
8 cubic foot K-coupler with 18" driver
Ray Newman's EV Sentry IV loaded with two Pyle PYM1298 in parallel (~ like Kappa 12a)
Karlsonator12 - the Karlsonator by GregB features an offset driver,
lower tuning and lower cutoff vs regular K of similar bulk
Hi freddi,
I too have been thinking about using the K-varients for covering midbass/mid region on a 3/4way for some time now.
Is there any drawbacks or caveats in doing this? (why aren't more folks doing this?)
What if I wanted to use a fairly large driver (10 or 12 incher such as 12LTA or Fane 12-250TC) to cover 250~1000hz or higher?
Doesn't the K-cabs enable you to use a large driver across a wider bandwidth than a horn? With good dispersion and without concerns for BSC and beaming?(please correct me, because I know I am wrong somewhere...
)
Perhaps someone who has experience with using the K-cabs for midbass/midrange could chime in...
I too have been thinking about using the K-varients for covering midbass/mid region on a 3/4way for some time now.
Is there any drawbacks or caveats in doing this? (why aren't more folks doing this?)
What if I wanted to use a fairly large driver (10 or 12 incher such as 12LTA or Fane 12-250TC) to cover 250~1000hz or higher?
Doesn't the K-cabs enable you to use a large driver across a wider bandwidth than a horn? With good dispersion and without concerns for BSC and beaming?(please correct me, because I know I am wrong somewhere...
)Perhaps someone who has experience with using the K-cabs for midbass/midrange could chime in...
I say the K midbass as two way with K-tube on top will sound more pleasant & realistic than the horn setup - the little ~4.3 cubic foot bulk Acoustic Control 115BK cabinet can make it to 1K5 with light cone 15" right up to the K-tube with 1 inch driver. Same for K15
there's no reason not to use a coaxial K fullrange and the original 1951 Karlson is a competent design.
a good Karlson system can sound better on bowed bass viola than ported or horn - I don't know why as the LF cutoff order can be 3rd or 4th
I've not pitted the 12 inch Karlsonator yet against my new little midbass horn - that horn in a quick lashup with University SA-HF/Altec 511 and Audax bullet tweeter is honky and strident - - gotta work out the bugs and perhaps use a different tweeter.
I've not had a dedicated K-midrange yet - the klam form buries the driver too deep imo.
there's no reason not to use a coaxial K fullrange and the original 1951 Karlson is a competent design.
a good Karlson system can sound better on bowed bass viola than ported or horn - I don't know why as the LF cutoff order can be 3rd or 4th
I've not pitted the 12 inch Karlsonator yet against my new little midbass horn - that horn in a quick lashup with University SA-HF/Altec 511 and Audax bullet tweeter is honky and strident - - gotta work out the bugs and perhaps use a different tweeter.
I've not had a dedicated K-midrange yet - the klam form buries the driver too deep imo.
It is funny as I got this idea of using K as midbass (not full range) for the punch too and I am glad I did forum search first. I have some huge JBL2445 in horns that need some midbass below ca 600 - 800 Hz - and any frontloaded midbass horn going down to 100 Hz is going to be too deep. So I think for the same volume, a 12" - 15" would be shallower and could also place the horns in a more proper position. I have a BC 12HPL64 (and might get a second one) or some Kappa 15LFA and soon also a pair of Deltalite 2515. Which of these and which modification (stanard, XKi, K-nator, ...) would suit this task the best?
I'd sure like to hear xrk971's input on what to pick.
FWIW - here's some kludges of a 115BK Acoustic Control K and one with a smoothing stub courtesy of the brilliant MMJ
Larger box (~127 liter airspace) with smoothing stub and Deltalite II 2515
~80 liter boxes - -Acoustic Control 115BK vs similar size with smoothing stub
this should be the general effect a bit more low end with the stub - a bit less "hit" around 200Hz -
but don't know how much difference in the 200-400 region would really occur. 115BK is a pretty good
box.
I would consider trying a K12, either Karlson's or the "Dutch K12" for your 12HPL64 - you might like - might not. The Acoustic Control 115 BK could be scaled ~0.91 X for it too. If building a K12 based on the 1956 model (published in July 1958 Popular Mechanics), I might opt for a single vent and start with around 16 sq.inches area then trim by measurement/"ear" . Also, if a rear lowpass shelf/choke were used that could be somewhat short to experiment with the gap between the shelf and rear panel
A well tuned Karlsonator would probably be smooth
FWIW - here's some kludges of a 115BK Acoustic Control K and one with a smoothing stub courtesy of the brilliant MMJ
Larger box (~127 liter airspace) with smoothing stub and Deltalite II 2515
~80 liter boxes - -Acoustic Control 115BK vs similar size with smoothing stub
this should be the general effect a bit more low end with the stub - a bit less "hit" around 200Hz -
but don't know how much difference in the 200-400 region would really occur. 115BK is a pretty good
box.
I would consider trying a K12, either Karlson's or the "Dutch K12" for your 12HPL64 - you might like - might not. The Acoustic Control 115 BK could be scaled ~0.91 X for it too. If building a K12 based on the 1956 model (published in July 1958 Popular Mechanics), I might opt for a single vent and start with around 16 sq.inches area then trim by measurement/"ear" . Also, if a rear lowpass shelf/choke were used that could be somewhat short to experiment with the gap between the shelf and rear panel
A well tuned Karlsonator would probably be smooth
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I found out that 12HPL64 is out of production and the only left in stock are 4 ohm versions, mine is 8. That actually changes the situation and I will have to buy a new pair anyway. As I wrote in the other thread, the first K that I will get will be for the Beta12CX, which will be also a proof of concept for the midbass solution.
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