Q1 Dissapointment...
I just bought the Kef Q1 cheap and I am quite dissapointed. Cool looking box tho, but midrange and highs are VERY lacking. I don't know what I was expecting, as I am quite spoiled with my Maggie MMG's. Mid bass is full, and that's it's only good point.
Thinking of messing with the crossover to see what I can do to boost the upper range. Anyone have any suggestions? Also thinking of dumping the lame Uni-Crap driver in favor of a nice 6.5" Fulll Range Fostex. Like I said, the box alone was worth what I paid. Not a scratch on them too. Anyone want the drivers and crossovers (maybe)??
I just bought the Kef Q1 cheap and I am quite dissapointed. Cool looking box tho, but midrange and highs are VERY lacking. I don't know what I was expecting, as I am quite spoiled with my Maggie MMG's. Mid bass is full, and that's it's only good point.
Thinking of messing with the crossover to see what I can do to boost the upper range. Anyone have any suggestions? Also thinking of dumping the lame Uni-Crap driver in favor of a nice 6.5" Fulll Range Fostex. Like I said, the box alone was worth what I paid. Not a scratch on them too. Anyone want the drivers and crossovers (maybe)??
i've spent a lot of time with q1s, good/smooth mids and highs but bass imho is a bit artificial... and at low volumes theres very little bass... these speakers take those Fletcher-Munson curves rather too seriously.
self.
self.
Whoa...
So I was bored as all get out the other night, so I decided to take apart my KEF Q1's just for the hell of it. Nothing fancy, but I saw that it was pretty solidly built, compared to other speakers I have ripped open...
I was really disappointed on the entire KEF Q1 sound, way too laid back, no presence, and all midbass. Kinda reminded me of the old sears console that we had in the 70's. Just blah. No matter how much treble or bass I turned up on the ol console, it just sounded blah with more treble or bass. I though to myself, why are there people that like the sound of these? They look cool and look like the should sound great, but they had to be one of the worst speaker buys I have made in a long while. Now I have to say that I purchased them from a Pawn shop for $100, unauditioned, but they were in PERFECT condition - nada scratch on 'em.
Anywho, I was messing around the night before with a pair of Full Range 4" Fostex FE126 speakers and decided to try the KEFs straight thru, no crossover to the woofer.
What a freaking difference. The quashed midrange was all there, as I suspected, being veiled by the overly abitious crossover. I liked it so much that I did the other speaker, and then just left both tweeters connected to the existing crossover crossed over at 2800Hz. The X'ed tweeters are still sound sucked in and barely audible, but the 6.5" woofer is solidly performing some of the higher spectrum sound with impressive results.
I plan on building a simple 1st order butterworth crossover, or just adding a cap filter to the tweeter and leaving the woofer straight up.
Now I am sure the KEF engineers had their intent on designing the crossover to acheive a nice flat response curve, but it sounded horrible. I am quite sure by the time I finish the crossover , the speaker would most likely generate a curve most would laugh at. A lot. But the name of the game is whatever sounds best, right?
Anyway, anyone have any experience with modifying crossovers on the Q series KEFs? Am I the only audiosoul that feels this way?
So I was bored as all get out the other night, so I decided to take apart my KEF Q1's just for the hell of it. Nothing fancy, but I saw that it was pretty solidly built, compared to other speakers I have ripped open...
I was really disappointed on the entire KEF Q1 sound, way too laid back, no presence, and all midbass. Kinda reminded me of the old sears console that we had in the 70's. Just blah. No matter how much treble or bass I turned up on the ol console, it just sounded blah with more treble or bass. I though to myself, why are there people that like the sound of these? They look cool and look like the should sound great, but they had to be one of the worst speaker buys I have made in a long while. Now I have to say that I purchased them from a Pawn shop for $100, unauditioned, but they were in PERFECT condition - nada scratch on 'em.
Anywho, I was messing around the night before with a pair of Full Range 4" Fostex FE126 speakers and decided to try the KEFs straight thru, no crossover to the woofer.
What a freaking difference. The quashed midrange was all there, as I suspected, being veiled by the overly abitious crossover. I liked it so much that I did the other speaker, and then just left both tweeters connected to the existing crossover crossed over at 2800Hz. The X'ed tweeters are still sound sucked in and barely audible, but the 6.5" woofer is solidly performing some of the higher spectrum sound with impressive results.
I plan on building a simple 1st order butterworth crossover, or just adding a cap filter to the tweeter and leaving the woofer straight up.
Now I am sure the KEF engineers had their intent on designing the crossover to acheive a nice flat response curve, but it sounded horrible. I am quite sure by the time I finish the crossover , the speaker would most likely generate a curve most would laugh at. A lot. But the name of the game is whatever sounds best, right?
Anyway, anyone have any experience with modifying crossovers on the Q series KEFs? Am I the only audiosoul that feels this way?
I have the full Q1 AV setup, I'm using a pair for music only at the moment. I'm quite happy, the midbass is great but I do find them a bit sucked out at times. I've tried various sources and amps but I cannot get the vocals to punch you in the face as I'd like them too, they are very clear though and the soundstaging is fantastic, vocals project very very well.
I hated them at first but having bought all five speakers with no option to return them I had to put up with them. After a few weeks either they broke in or I did because I don't really find them lacking now. I have them up against a wall in a smallish room so the lower bass is ok. I don't like a lot of treble and I am sitting quite close, there is nothing lacking up there just maybe attenuated a little but it suits me.
Please keep us updated on how you get on, I'll give mine a go mids straight through this weekend 😎
I hated them at first but having bought all five speakers with no option to return them I had to put up with them. After a few weeks either they broke in or I did because I don't really find them lacking now. I have them up against a wall in a smallish room so the lower bass is ok. I don't like a lot of treble and I am sitting quite close, there is nothing lacking up there just maybe attenuated a little but it suits me.
Please keep us updated on how you get on, I'll give mine a go mids straight through this weekend 😎
Well I finally got to messing with the crossover and left the woofer straight thru and the tweeter cap at 47uF, thus giving the tweeter a high pass filter at around 800 - 1000 hz. I know there's some overlap between the woofer's upper end and the tweeter's lower end, but the combo just sounds right to me. I may add an inductor to the woofer someday, but for now I'm happy. The vocals are much more alive and the good midbass is still there, giving the speaker a much more dynamic and clear sound it desperately needed.
I may also try different caps on the tweeter too.
All in all, a good buy for $100.
I may also try different caps on the tweeter too.
All in all, a good buy for $100.
If you look at the back of the woofer, I beleive it has 4ohm scratched on it. Just for the hell of it, I put a MM on both tweeter and woofer and both read 3.8 ohm. I know this is not the correct way to measure impedance, but I also checked across another known 4 ohm woofer and it also read 3.9 ohm.
Maybe these tweeters/woofers were wired in series? I haven't traced the existing crossover just yet... Don't know how you can biamp a series crossover, tho.
Maybe these tweeters/woofers were wired in series? I haven't traced the existing crossover just yet... Don't know how you can biamp a series crossover, tho.
I also may add that I had a 47uF cap and had a whole 20 minutes to do the mod. I may revisit the tweeter cap for a better option.
Magsy, do you know if the tweeter/woofer is actually individually 8 ohms? If it is 8 ohm, a 47uF cap on the tweeter means a 400hz cut, and that's enough to really damage the tweeter...no damage as of yet, which leads me to believe its really 4 ohm and not 8 ohm...right?
Magsy, do you know if the tweeter/woofer is actually individually 8 ohms? If it is 8 ohm, a 47uF cap on the tweeter means a 400hz cut, and that's enough to really damage the tweeter...no damage as of yet, which leads me to believe its really 4 ohm and not 8 ohm...right?
KEF Q1
Hi
The KEF Q1 is @ 8 ohms impedance.
If you want good bass, take a audition on the new KEF IQ3
Dynamic improvement.
Hi
The KEF Q1 is @ 8 ohms impedance.
If you want good bass, take a audition on the new KEF IQ3
Dynamic improvement.
OK, so I am not crazy.
Magsy - remove the KEF Q1 driver. On the sheilding cover it clearly reads 4 Ohm. Now that could mean the woofer, or the tweeter, or both (my guess).
Again, this 8 ohms rating is NOMINAL IMPEDANCE with jumper.
When Bi Amping (removing Bi-amp jumper), your amp is pumping a 4 ohm load per tweeter/woofer.
When connected with jumper, it may be an 8 ohm load - again, which would have to be the woofer and tweeter in a series connection, not parallel (which would be 2 ohm impedance).
Just for S&G, get a MM and measure resistance across speaker terminals with jumper in and individually with jumper off. I can't since my Xover is completely removed. My guess is you will read 6.8 ohm - 8 ohm jumper on and 3.9 ohm each terminal jumper off. Again, I understand the impedance varies per frequency input, but the lowest impedance should be the nominal impedance, in this case 4 ohm per driver.
Maybe someone can enlighten me here, if I am missing something... as I am a mechanical engineer, not an electrical engineer.
Magsy - remove the KEF Q1 driver. On the sheilding cover it clearly reads 4 Ohm. Now that could mean the woofer, or the tweeter, or both (my guess).
Again, this 8 ohms rating is NOMINAL IMPEDANCE with jumper.
When Bi Amping (removing Bi-amp jumper), your amp is pumping a 4 ohm load per tweeter/woofer.
When connected with jumper, it may be an 8 ohm load - again, which would have to be the woofer and tweeter in a series connection, not parallel (which would be 2 ohm impedance).
Just for S&G, get a MM and measure resistance across speaker terminals with jumper in and individually with jumper off. I can't since my Xover is completely removed. My guess is you will read 6.8 ohm - 8 ohm jumper on and 3.9 ohm each terminal jumper off. Again, I understand the impedance varies per frequency input, but the lowest impedance should be the nominal impedance, in this case 4 ohm per driver.
Maybe someone can enlighten me here, if I am missing something... as I am a mechanical engineer, not an electrical engineer.
I was thinking about my 'tweak' plan for this weekend and punching some numbers into a crossover calculator when I saw the mismatch. I'm a novice with speakers, so I'm just fiddling.
I'll crack one open and have a look, I'll let you know what I read on the terminals too.
Are you biamping? I don't have that luxury at the moment, also my GC won't be happy at 2ohms so I'll need to keep them in series if it turns out they are 4 ohm.
I'll crack one open and have a look, I'll let you know what I read on the terminals too.
Are you biamping? I don't have that luxury at the moment, also my GC won't be happy at 2ohms so I'll need to keep them in series if it turns out they are 4 ohm.
I had two GC's biamped to the Q1 speakers before the X'over mod. I haven't biamped with the mod yet.
In my opinion, I don't see a need in biamping efficient speakers, and at 91db/watt, they are somewhat efficient. My Magnepans could definitly use the added power of biamping, being 86db/watt...
I need to change out that tweeter cap - the one I have now sounds a bit grainy...but I really don't want to spend a fortune on it.
In my opinion, I don't see a need in biamping efficient speakers, and at 91db/watt, they are somewhat efficient. My Magnepans could definitly use the added power of biamping, being 86db/watt...
I need to change out that tweeter cap - the one I have now sounds a bit grainy...but I really don't want to spend a fortune on it.
Well it is strange, I measure 3.8ohm for each driver when disconnected from crossover. I also measure 3.8ohm at each rear terminal. I measure 4.1ohm with the jumper on. I'm lost😕 🙂
I just paralled the driver with the tweeter, fullrange. It still reads 4.1ohm..
Anyway I have limited listening volume because it is a little late but I can say it for sure sounds better. There is much more sparkle, sounds a lot more open and midrange clarity is improved. Cannot hear any downsides yet but they may appear when I whack the volume up.
My crossovers have different components, both have the same values but the caps are of different manufacture. One is built very well and the other is built like sh!t. I resoldered the whole thing.British speakers made in China...
The crossover is totally independant, the HF and LF don't meet at any point, it parallels the drivers.
I just paralled the driver with the tweeter, fullrange. It still reads 4.1ohm..
Anyway I have limited listening volume because it is a little late but I can say it for sure sounds better. There is much more sparkle, sounds a lot more open and midrange clarity is improved. Cannot hear any downsides yet but they may appear when I whack the volume up.
My crossovers have different components, both have the same values but the caps are of different manufacture. One is built very well and the other is built like sh!t. I resoldered the whole thing.British speakers made in China...
The crossover is totally independant, the HF and LF don't meet at any point, it parallels the drivers.
Did the driver read 4 ohm on the magnet sheild cover like mine?
I have looked at those crossover caps too. I think an 8 uF, 14uF and another 8uF.
Anyway, good to see some semblance of repeatability to my observations.
I have listened a bit at louder volumes and the woofer high end may have some HF ringing - you may be able to confirm this with your tests...if you do notice this ringing, let me know.
I am sure you know, but running the woofer straight thru is fine, but you need a cap on the tweeter or you will blow it.
I have looked at those crossover caps too. I think an 8 uF, 14uF and another 8uF.
Anyway, good to see some semblance of repeatability to my observations.
I have listened a bit at louder volumes and the woofer high end may have some HF ringing - you may be able to confirm this with your tests...if you do notice this ringing, let me know.
I am sure you know, but running the woofer straight thru is fine, but you need a cap on the tweeter or you will blow it.
I didn't pop the driver, wasn't sure how it came out with all that plastic on the front.
I've put my crossovers back, on further listening it really doesn't suit my setup.
Vocals became very nasal, bass took a further step back and the whole sound seemed to be thin - it all got shifted higher up. Guitars etc seemed to sound a little synthetic too. I'm using a TDA1543 Dac and a PD Gainclone.
There were some definate benefits though and it for sure warrants a bit of crossover work to get a happy medium. I've mapped out the crossover and will have a little play with the crossover points.
I've put my crossovers back, on further listening it really doesn't suit my setup.
Vocals became very nasal, bass took a further step back and the whole sound seemed to be thin - it all got shifted higher up. Guitars etc seemed to sound a little synthetic too. I'm using a TDA1543 Dac and a PD Gainclone.
There were some definate benefits though and it for sure warrants a bit of crossover work to get a happy medium. I've mapped out the crossover and will have a little play with the crossover points.
So I finally got to replacing the temporary 49uF tweeter cap and replaced them with Aerovox (?) 28uF Met Poly caps. The speaker sounds much better and treble now seems more in balance. Woofer is still straight thru too. Sound is really impressive and the speaker is now a bonefied Keeper.
They sound a lot more dynamic like my B&W's now...one of my better mods.
Magsy -> the inline resistors on the crossovers may be the missing link to getting the nameplate 8ohm impedance on tweeters/woofers... One checks out at 4 ohms and the other a bit less.
These resistors are a waste, if you ask me...if you have a 4ohm capable amp, like I do, much better to run them sans resistor. A waste of precious power too.
I think it is these in line resistors that are reducing performance of the speakers...
They sound a lot more dynamic like my B&W's now...one of my better mods.
Magsy -> the inline resistors on the crossovers may be the missing link to getting the nameplate 8ohm impedance on tweeters/woofers... One checks out at 4 ohms and the other a bit less.
These resistors are a waste, if you ask me...if you have a 4ohm capable amp, like I do, much better to run them sans resistor. A waste of precious power too.
I think it is these in line resistors that are reducing performance of the speakers...
Hmmm kef Qcompact was my first pair of speakers before i got into DIY.
They sounded perfect to me. Apparently every other speaker in the store was waaay too bright. I was only 14 years old at the time. So perhaps it was excellent high frequency hearing. In general i prefer the last octaves a tad subdued as they hurt my ears sometimes. The new iQ series look interesting.
Not to Hijack the thread or anything...
but what about Seas coaxial drivers, are those similiar to a kef coaxial driver, and if so wouldn't it be interesting to clone a kef 3, 4, or 5 way.
They sounded perfect to me. Apparently every other speaker in the store was waaay too bright. I was only 14 years old at the time. So perhaps it was excellent high frequency hearing. In general i prefer the last octaves a tad subdued as they hurt my ears sometimes. The new iQ series look interesting.
Not to Hijack the thread or anything...
but what about Seas coaxial drivers, are those similiar to a kef coaxial driver, and if so wouldn't it be interesting to clone a kef 3, 4, or 5 way.
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