There probably are some tv drivers that have a nice rising high end that will work. I can tell you this my 9x Faital 3.5" is just outstanding as a pa. I can envision a higher crossover point, say 300 hz using smaller but similar drivers and crossed to a 10" LF unit that would be truly portable. I am more than thrilled with the iNuke DSP power amps. You can accomplish a lot of correction with one of those. My 3000dsp is however using up almost every watt. Woofer is a car unit at 2 ohms. Faital x 9 are configured for around 4 ohm load. I suspect I will need another one for this. I am figuring I will need about 12 of the 2” drivers if I can get the sensitivity high enough. I am guessing I can find some around 84db. I can do a lot of smoothing with all that beautiful Behringer DSP. Here is a tip. Those inuke units are a lot nicer than one would imagine.
These are looking intersting
HIFI 2 Inch Full Range Luidspreker 4 of 8 ohm 15 W 118Hz 20 KHz voor Computer Speakers Audio Versterker Hoge Gevoeligheid DIY in HIFI 2 Inch Full Range Luidspreker 4 of 8 ohm 15 W 118Hz-20 KHz voor Computer Speakers Audio Versterker Hoge Gevoeligheid DIY van Luidspreker Accessoires op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
however ... I think using 2 inch drivers you will end up with a pretty expensive line ... a good inhouse line array needs to cover at least 70 percent of your floor to ceiling distance. for most houses that's about 2 meter. So you will need around 40 drivers !!!
With the use of parrallel and series I would go for in your case that would be 36 drivers as most optimal. 72 drivers if you need to do this on 2 channels ...
That is the reason why I went for 16 4 inch drivers (I'm doing a MTM setup so 64 mid bass speakers and 32 ribbon tweeters) ... I will end up at kind of the same price as your 72 fullrange drivers ... more value for money.
2 stks 2 Inch 52mm 8 ohm 10 W bass Audio speakers woofer subwoofer Luidspreker in 2 stks 2 Inch 52mm 8 ohm 10 W bass Audio speakers woofer subwoofer Luidspreker van Combinatie Speakers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These also look pretty descent with a big magnet and cost a lot less ... with 10 watts power -> you will end up with 360 watt a channel. Side screws is a big plus as it allows you to put the speakers very very close to eachoter
2 stks 3 W 2ohm 2 inch 50mm Volledige Range Speaker DIY HIFI Luidspreker voor Auto Stereo Home Theater Audio Speakers gamut in 2 stks 3 W 2ohm 2 inch 50mm Volledige Range Speaker DIY HIFI Luidspreker voor Auto Stereo Home Theater Audio Speakers gamut van Boekenplank Luidsprekers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These are 2 ohm speakers that look nice ... Very flexible to make series parrallels due to low imp
What I would do in your case ... buys a a few sets, build a small test enclosure, test and measure ... then order the full bunch and you can already start building the housing while you already have a pair and can measure them 😉
Een Paar 50mm 6 W 6 ohm 2 inch Audio Speakers dubbele magnetische Full Range Luidspreker DIY HIFI Luidspreker Auto Stereo Thuis Theater in Een Paar 50mm 6 W 6 ohm 2 inch Audio Speakers dubbele magnetische Full Range Luidspreker DIY HIFI Luidspreker Auto Stereo Thuis Theater van Draagbare Luidsprekers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These wave a lot of potential to make a nice looking line array as you can use your router to sink them 😉
Aiyima 2 Stks 8 Ohm 10 W Magnetische Transparante Waterdichte Luidspreker 2.5 Inch 66mm Speakers in Aiyima 2 Stks 8 Ohm 10 W Magnetische Transparante Waterdichte Luidspreker 2.5 Inch 66mm Speakers van Combinatie Speakers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
Buy these and you are my personal hero ... color changing LED strip behind them !!! <3
HIFI 2 Inch Full Range Luidspreker 4 of 8 ohm 15 W 118Hz 20 KHz voor Computer Speakers Audio Versterker Hoge Gevoeligheid DIY in HIFI 2 Inch Full Range Luidspreker 4 of 8 ohm 15 W 118Hz-20 KHz voor Computer Speakers Audio Versterker Hoge Gevoeligheid DIY van Luidspreker Accessoires op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
however ... I think using 2 inch drivers you will end up with a pretty expensive line ... a good inhouse line array needs to cover at least 70 percent of your floor to ceiling distance. for most houses that's about 2 meter. So you will need around 40 drivers !!!
With the use of parrallel and series I would go for in your case that would be 36 drivers as most optimal. 72 drivers if you need to do this on 2 channels ...
That is the reason why I went for 16 4 inch drivers (I'm doing a MTM setup so 64 mid bass speakers and 32 ribbon tweeters) ... I will end up at kind of the same price as your 72 fullrange drivers ... more value for money.
2 stks 2 Inch 52mm 8 ohm 10 W bass Audio speakers woofer subwoofer Luidspreker in 2 stks 2 Inch 52mm 8 ohm 10 W bass Audio speakers woofer subwoofer Luidspreker van Combinatie Speakers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These also look pretty descent with a big magnet and cost a lot less ... with 10 watts power -> you will end up with 360 watt a channel. Side screws is a big plus as it allows you to put the speakers very very close to eachoter
2 stks 3 W 2ohm 2 inch 50mm Volledige Range Speaker DIY HIFI Luidspreker voor Auto Stereo Home Theater Audio Speakers gamut in 2 stks 3 W 2ohm 2 inch 50mm Volledige Range Speaker DIY HIFI Luidspreker voor Auto Stereo Home Theater Audio Speakers gamut van Boekenplank Luidsprekers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These are 2 ohm speakers that look nice ... Very flexible to make series parrallels due to low imp
What I would do in your case ... buys a a few sets, build a small test enclosure, test and measure ... then order the full bunch and you can already start building the housing while you already have a pair and can measure them 😉
Een Paar 50mm 6 W 6 ohm 2 inch Audio Speakers dubbele magnetische Full Range Luidspreker DIY HIFI Luidspreker Auto Stereo Thuis Theater in Een Paar 50mm 6 W 6 ohm 2 inch Audio Speakers dubbele magnetische Full Range Luidspreker DIY HIFI Luidspreker Auto Stereo Thuis Theater van Draagbare Luidsprekers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
These wave a lot of potential to make a nice looking line array as you can use your router to sink them 😉
Aiyima 2 Stks 8 Ohm 10 W Magnetische Transparante Waterdichte Luidspreker 2.5 Inch 66mm Speakers in Aiyima 2 Stks 8 Ohm 10 W Magnetische Transparante Waterdichte Luidspreker 2.5 Inch 66mm Speakers van Combinatie Speakers op AliExpress.com | Alibaba Groep
Buy these and you are my personal hero ... color changing LED strip behind them !!! <3
I've made arrays with the TC9 and like the sound. Have worked a bit with the Faital 3" and 4", very nice drivers indeed!
What were the drivers Don Keele used in his original CBT? I heard his first models twice, at different demos. The worked just like he claimed, but they couldn't play at high SPL without strain. Likely the result of the shading forcing a small number of the drivers to do much of the work. Those drivers n a non-shaded array could be killer, or a shaded array with driver that can take a little more juice.
What were the drivers Don Keele used in his original CBT? I heard his first models twice, at different demos. The worked just like he claimed, but they couldn't play at high SPL without strain. Likely the result of the shading forcing a small number of the drivers to do much of the work. Those drivers n a non-shaded array could be killer, or a shaded array with driver that can take a little more juice.
I am starting to think 1.5" to 2" is too ambitious. I may settle on the Peerless TC-7 2.5 series Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 4 Ohm
and come up with a creative way to make the "stick" enclosure smaller. Perhaps triangular? I am sure that with a 300 hz or so crossover point I will need very little space behind those units. Judging from the specs I may get away with 12 of those. Any thoughts on those drivers?
and come up with a creative way to make the "stick" enclosure smaller. Perhaps triangular? I am sure that with a 300 hz or so crossover point I will need very little space behind those units. Judging from the specs I may get away with 12 of those. Any thoughts on those drivers?
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Heck looks like if I seal the enclosure tight I may get away with a 230 crossover. I can use 48db LR on my iNuke DSP. Only have a 1mm xmax. Still for PA use I have had zero issues with steep crossovers if out of the mid-vocal band. People are just not listening for that sort of thing in pa. They are listening for vocal definition and enough low mid "warmth" to identity fundamental pitch. You can get away with a crapload of "woofer non linearity" below 250. If that wasn't true that
"B" company that uses crappy little 5.5" woofers and a lot of snake oil lies would not be successful. Where I think they messed up on their "stick" pa's is using a lot of cheap drivers that beam and cocking them left and right. Very unfocused probably due to comb filtering. I have trouble hearing a good monitor mix even sitting 3 feet from one. I have no issues at all 3 feet from my 9 x 3fe25 Faital "stick" I expect these Peerless will be similar only losing around 3 db at top Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 4 Ohm
"B" company that uses crappy little 5.5" woofers and a lot of snake oil lies would not be successful. Where I think they messed up on their "stick" pa's is using a lot of cheap drivers that beam and cocking them left and right. Very unfocused probably due to comb filtering. I have trouble hearing a good monitor mix even sitting 3 feet from one. I have no issues at all 3 feet from my 9 x 3fe25 Faital "stick" I expect these Peerless will be similar only losing around 3 db at top Peerless by Tymphany TC7FD00-04 2-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 4 Ohm
The B&C and Eminence 2" drivers look like good options at a decent price. The 2" Fountek has good reviews. The best is probably the Scan-Speak 5F but it'll cost you.
Hmmm now I am back to the Eminence 2" drivers @ 8 for about 90 bucks. Sure wish they would give me a peek at off-axis response.
The more I look at this plot and the specs the better I think this one will sound. Really looks great on paper. Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
It does look pretty good. Eminence recommends using them above 300hz with 8 sealed paired with either a 1x15 or 2x12's.
IIRC, the 35mm version of the JBL or Foster (copy) inverted dome FR that Apple used in their eMac. Or similar. Or it could have been the 25mm (iMac 2nd gen until they went flat panel).
DIY2000
dave
Ah, yes, I remember him saying they were computer speakers. The tweeters were tiny little buttons, maybe computer, too.
What was DK thinking? No need to go 2 way with that!!! It's the no crossover deal that makes full range so sweet!
I will use one or two long throw 8" car woofer that work in limited space enclosure and throw immense wattage at it to satisfy Mr. Hoffman and his damn iron law. (-;
During Don Keele's research on CBTs over the past 18 years he utilized several prototype arrays to demonstrate his findings. These arrays often used full range drivers but he did design several two way arrays as well.
About 5 years ago he worked with Parts Express/Dayton Audio on his CBT36K design ( a two way array with 18 3.5" woofers and 72 0.75 inch dome tweeters). This design became a kit which is still offered. See this link for that design:
CBT36K Line Array Speaker Pair Kit
Keele and P-E released a CBT24 (named the Epique CBT24) as a kit 18 months ago. The Epique uses a full range 16 ohms 2.5" driver supplied by Dayton Audio for that array.
Epique CBT24K Line Array Speaker Kit Pair
About 5 years ago he worked with Parts Express/Dayton Audio on his CBT36K design ( a two way array with 18 3.5" woofers and 72 0.75 inch dome tweeters). This design became a kit which is still offered. See this link for that design:
CBT36K Line Array Speaker Pair Kit
Keele and P-E released a CBT24 (named the Epique CBT24) as a kit 18 months ago. The Epique uses a full range 16 ohms 2.5" driver supplied by Dayton Audio for that array.
Epique CBT24K Line Array Speaker Kit Pair
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Looks like the FR is one of the Aura drivers (the ones i have played with have been decent) PE had done for their Dayton house-brand. The cabinets look to be made from low-grade MDF — one could definitly improce on that with decent plywood.
dave
Construction of the Calypso 2 Line Array System
10-27-2017, 08:54 AM
Over the next few months I will be building a set of large line array speakers which I will be calling Calypso2”s.
About 12 years ago I built a set of Calipso1’s. These were a 3way: 17 Sammi 3.5 inch mids, 20 Dayton ND20FA’s with cut flanges to CTC of .89, and 1 Goldsound 12DVC woofer. These were and are terrific speakers. But I have since moved to a new house in retirement, and the originals are now upstairs in the TV room. I don’t get to listen to music up there unless its a concert DVD. Those went complete floor to ceiling and were 96 inches high. I don’t have quite the room for them downstairs and I have to deal with the WAF in the living room too.
So the new speakers are going to be slightly smaller. They will only be 66 inches tall.
The upstairs Goldsound 12DVC will be used down stairs and a new smaller Sub will be put upstairs with a plate amp.
The system downstairs will be a 4-Way, Active with two Behringer CX-3400’s, a Rane 6 channel 100 rms/ch, and a LinearTech 375 RMS/Ch. The extra power of the Linear Tech will allow the sealed box Goldsound to be equalized Flat to 30 hz and F3 at 27hz, with a DOD Constant Q 2/3 octave equalizer. The Xmax of 15.2 of the Goldsound will allow this to work.
The mid woofer will be in its own sealed cylinder running about 100-550, and is a Dayton Audio DSA215-8 8" Designer Series Aluminum Cone Woofer.
The mid ranges will consist of 24- Dayton Audio CE Series CE65W-8 2-1/2”. Each of these will be in a separate 3 inch x 13 inch sealed cylinder, with 4 lb cu inch fiberglass dampening. There will be no tapering or curvature. This will cover about 550hz to about 4500hz
There will also be a tweeter line consisting of 30- Visaton K 28 WP 1.1" Miniature Speaker. The tweeters will cross out at about 4000-5000hz. With an active crossover system, I will be able to adjust the actual crossovers according to final design.
The system, like its big brother will be following Jim Griffin’s Line Array white paper to the letter, and I have also cross emailed Jim about it, as I did 13 years ago.
The attached is the configuration.
Over the next 5 months or so, I will be adding pictures of the construction work, as I continue to collect the required parts and do the work.
10-27-2017, 08:54 AM
Over the next few months I will be building a set of large line array speakers which I will be calling Calypso2”s.
About 12 years ago I built a set of Calipso1’s. These were a 3way: 17 Sammi 3.5 inch mids, 20 Dayton ND20FA’s with cut flanges to CTC of .89, and 1 Goldsound 12DVC woofer. These were and are terrific speakers. But I have since moved to a new house in retirement, and the originals are now upstairs in the TV room. I don’t get to listen to music up there unless its a concert DVD. Those went complete floor to ceiling and were 96 inches high. I don’t have quite the room for them downstairs and I have to deal with the WAF in the living room too.
So the new speakers are going to be slightly smaller. They will only be 66 inches tall.
The upstairs Goldsound 12DVC will be used down stairs and a new smaller Sub will be put upstairs with a plate amp.
The system downstairs will be a 4-Way, Active with two Behringer CX-3400’s, a Rane 6 channel 100 rms/ch, and a LinearTech 375 RMS/Ch. The extra power of the Linear Tech will allow the sealed box Goldsound to be equalized Flat to 30 hz and F3 at 27hz, with a DOD Constant Q 2/3 octave equalizer. The Xmax of 15.2 of the Goldsound will allow this to work.
The mid woofer will be in its own sealed cylinder running about 100-550, and is a Dayton Audio DSA215-8 8" Designer Series Aluminum Cone Woofer.
The mid ranges will consist of 24- Dayton Audio CE Series CE65W-8 2-1/2”. Each of these will be in a separate 3 inch x 13 inch sealed cylinder, with 4 lb cu inch fiberglass dampening. There will be no tapering or curvature. This will cover about 550hz to about 4500hz
There will also be a tweeter line consisting of 30- Visaton K 28 WP 1.1" Miniature Speaker. The tweeters will cross out at about 4000-5000hz. With an active crossover system, I will be able to adjust the actual crossovers according to final design.
The system, like its big brother will be following Jim Griffin’s Line Array white paper to the letter, and I have also cross emailed Jim about it, as I did 13 years ago.
The attached is the configuration.
Over the next 5 months or so, I will be adding pictures of the construction work, as I continue to collect the required parts and do the work.
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