What’s going on there?…..an SPL battle in an acoustic nightmare of a space, that’s what’s going on there.
A Bessel array can't accomplish the far throw and directivity of a LA. That means, it's no option for PA use whatsoever.
For practical use in HiFi it's not the best solution either because it tries to reproduce a spherical dispersion - which is exactly what is not wanted because the multiple reflections muddy the resolution and placement on the sound stage, so it should be avoided. Which means, it's not attractive for HiFi either.
For practical use in HiFi it's not the best solution either because it tries to reproduce a spherical dispersion - which is exactly what is not wanted because the multiple reflections muddy the resolution and placement on the sound stage, so it should be avoided. Which means, it's not attractive for HiFi either.
Google for: "Krum- kast" loudspeakers They have parabolic baffle. Twin array with 16 Aura titanium tweeters in the middle row. I sold them many years ago. Today all the MCM midrange drivers are replaced by Seas Curv 5"
Works brilliantly together with Diy 2 x 15" JBL subs pr channel.
Works brilliantly together with Diy 2 x 15" JBL subs pr channel.
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The 5 element Bessel works well for home use because it can be short/compact and achieve a spherical radiation pattern much like a single round transducer……..IMO the BEST solution for a horizontal center channel speaker when enclosure height is limited or a horizontal row of dome tweeters when more power handling is needed. Somewhat odd use cases but solutions when you think outside of the box.
The 10x distance to length rule still holds though…..so no nearfield applications whatsoever…….a 15” long 5 element Bessel of 3” drivers needs at least 10ft of listening distance
The 10x distance to length rule still holds though…..so no nearfield applications whatsoever…….a 15” long 5 element Bessel of 3” drivers needs at least 10ft of listening distance
The back and forth is because people want to tell the OP the idea won't work or that McIntosh, et al. are stupid.
I periodically see threads that seem to devolve into "everything is a compromise, but I'm going to argue extensively that only the compromises I like are the good ones." They leave me nonplussed.
That post was a direct response about McIntosh's current products. It was obviously not an example of a line source, though the horizontal dispersion characteristics are the same whether it's a line source or smaller array in this case - which was the point.
And here I am wasting space in this thread again. Tiresome.
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https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/zy2_lightning_en.htm
Monacor Lightning, in Klang+Ton 2/2009
Monacor Lightning, in Klang+Ton 2/2009
- 12 RBT-95SR magnetostats (according to Monacor this can be used instead of RBT-95SQ, which is no longer available)
- 32 SP-6/8SQ full range drivers
Well, the measurements show where it's lacking. And confirms the horizontal interference.
Measurement from Klang + Ton 2/2009 (German diy speaker magazine)
You can say whatever you want but that's a really ugly horizontal interference, caused by the horizontal driver alignment. The subwoofer to this array is bad too, because of the high losses of the drivers it only starts to sound good at high spl. On low level it just swallows sooo many details, it's not funny anymore.
Measurement from Klang + Ton 2/2009 (German diy speaker magazine)
You can say whatever you want but that's a really ugly horizontal interference, caused by the horizontal driver alignment. The subwoofer to this array is bad too, because of the high losses of the drivers it only starts to sound good at high spl. On low level it just swallows sooo many details, it's not funny anymore.
ICG, that's just like regular crossover lobing you see in many 2-way speakers. I feel we're not giving Machismo's thread it's worth.
That's the point for either horizontal or vertical. If you cross low enough it's like a single driver. A little higher and you get some narrowing, which is good if the tweeter narrows too but if it doesn't, then you've reached your crossover limit.
Yes, I feel the same! But unlike so many 2-way speakers, that's a horizontal issue, which is much worse in a real-life scenario of conventional 2-way speakers. I mean, if you are going out on building (and paying!) for such an array, you don't get enough of it 'back'. It's simply not worth it! I mean, that Monacor speaker costs 2400€ - without the enclosure! Per side! That's a catastrophically bad bang for the buck and even if you ignore that, there are so much better speakers for that money, even DIY!
My least favourite reflection is the ceiling, and a careless regular crossover there makes the treble disjointed and in need of suppression. Clearly, this is a point of contention and would require an extensive venture off topic to discuss.
I agree completely! While that's disregarded by the majority of speaker builders, it's a ko-point to others. You can modify your listening room but if your speakers fulfill your requirements, it's a lot less to take care of. If you'd start a new thread about that, I'd be happy to contribute to that!
Many of us have struggled to come up with a (near) ideal line array. One of the best compromises is a single line of full range drivers. Trying to do better than that gets expensive and forces you to face the lobing issues resulting from adjacent columns of drivers. ie a column of small full ranges used as mids next to a column of tweeters. How close you can get the tweeters to mids constrains where you cross them over o minimize lobing, hopefully the tweeters extend that low.
The reason you don't (often) see two columns of mids are twofold: solutions exist in which a single column is sufficient and two columns aggravates the lobing issues; not because you need 2x the drivers.
Dayton makes DMA45, a 1.5" full range driver. You can stack 48 of them in a single line and get treble dispersion almost as good as a line of tweeters and still extend low enough to meet subwoofers. That is the way you should go if you don't mind using double or triple the number of drivers! Alternatively, use a line of DMA45s as tweeters next to a line or lines of small woofers, crossing below 200 Hz
Man after my own heart. It's the most ignored and one of the most important reflection points. I don't mean this from a scientific point of view but from experience.
A speaker like this needs bi-directional off-axis measurments. It seems that the chart is going only from center to the outside of the tweeter but since most 2-ways perform better below the tweeter, I'd expect it to perform better going from center to outside the mid-woofer array and if you position the speaker so the tweeters are on the outside pointing wide of your head (meeting behind you) they probably measure a lot better than this.
This speaker screams "please please use an active crossover with plenty of EQ and digital delay."
Going to at least LR4 would really have minimized the deep notch seen in the chart. Also, the SPL misalignment at 2 kHz could be inherent in the midwoofer instead of a driver level misalignment since the off-axis notch is at around 4 kHz, but.... hard to say without seeing more.
From a parts, complexity issue as well...the 2" full rangers could be 4" mids and be just as good, if not better. I'm not sure there's any value at all in picking "full range" drivers" in a 2-way design (given an expected subwoofer as well). Of course the myth that small drivers are faster and lower distortion still gets people.
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