Hi folks
After someone suggested my Mission 731s, which I've been enjoying since 1994, weren't good enough to discern SQ differences between good DACs, I went and bought a pair of Linn Index Mk2s secondhand.
Moment I plugged them in an hit play, I wasn't impressed, they were noticeably less detailed than the Missions, they just lacked the sparkle and fine detail.
So I persisted with them and after a week of listening a few hours a day, I'm still unimpressed. They have a wider soundstage and more bass than the Missions, but there just seems to be some detail and clarity missing. I'm finding music is less enjoyable with the Linns.
I'm not good at describing sound, but to give an example of somewhere I really notice a difference is the opening chords of Cheery Bomb by the Runaways, where with the Missions, the guitar has this real hard, attacking edge to it that is just not there with the Linns. Lo-fi recordings like the Sex Pistol's Roadrunner sound pretty bad through the Linns, muffled almost.
I can't do anything about speaker placement, that is fixed, and I chose the Linns because they are supposed to sound good placed just a few inches from a wall.
I can't help but think there is something wrong with the Linns, I can detect no flaws at all, it's just the lack of something, which can't be right as these things cost 5x as much new as the Missions.
So, what I'm wondering, is there something wrong with the crossovers? Perhaps recapping them would be a good idea?
I'm ready to plug the Missions back in as I enjoy them a lot more, but I don't want to give up on the Linns just yet.
After someone suggested my Mission 731s, which I've been enjoying since 1994, weren't good enough to discern SQ differences between good DACs, I went and bought a pair of Linn Index Mk2s secondhand.
Moment I plugged them in an hit play, I wasn't impressed, they were noticeably less detailed than the Missions, they just lacked the sparkle and fine detail.
So I persisted with them and after a week of listening a few hours a day, I'm still unimpressed. They have a wider soundstage and more bass than the Missions, but there just seems to be some detail and clarity missing. I'm finding music is less enjoyable with the Linns.
I'm not good at describing sound, but to give an example of somewhere I really notice a difference is the opening chords of Cheery Bomb by the Runaways, where with the Missions, the guitar has this real hard, attacking edge to it that is just not there with the Linns. Lo-fi recordings like the Sex Pistol's Roadrunner sound pretty bad through the Linns, muffled almost.
I can't do anything about speaker placement, that is fixed, and I chose the Linns because they are supposed to sound good placed just a few inches from a wall.
I can't help but think there is something wrong with the Linns, I can detect no flaws at all, it's just the lack of something, which can't be right as these things cost 5x as much new as the Missions.
So, what I'm wondering, is there something wrong with the crossovers? Perhaps recapping them would be a good idea?
I'm ready to plug the Missions back in as I enjoy them a lot more, but I don't want to give up on the Linns just yet.
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Not a high point in the Linn catalogue- you may well be hearing exactly what they are? Of the British designs, I preferred the Tangents of that era, or even comparably priced Boston Acoustics.
The Mission 731 was a very good budget speaker and was quite similar sounding to the Kef coda 7 (the 731 had tighter bass though).
The first lesson that proved to me that more expensive doesn't always equal better was when I bought some very expensive Dynaudio contour 1.3se to replace my budget Kef coda 8. I was so sure the Dyns must be better that I lived with them for quite a while before I realised I wasn't listening to music much anymore - - After a few weeks or so I plugged the Kefs back in and it was like a big musical relief.
The first lesson that proved to me that more expensive doesn't always equal better was when I bought some very expensive Dynaudio contour 1.3se to replace my budget Kef coda 8. I was so sure the Dyns must be better that I lived with them for quite a while before I realised I wasn't listening to music much anymore - - After a few weeks or so I plugged the Kefs back in and it was like a big musical relief.
Oh dear, looks like I'll be going back to the Missions then.
I have to say I'm very surprised at these Linns, I thought they would be much better than they are, not that they are bad in any way, just that the Missions are quite a bit better.
I have to say I'm very surprised at these Linns, I thought they would be much better than they are, not that they are bad in any way, just that the Missions are quite a bit better.
You know how things are regarding loudspeaker SQ, a few parts worth a couple of quid can make a night and day difference.
I'm afraid I'm pretty ignorant about speakers, I've had the Missions for 24 years and always been happy with them.
Do you think it would be sensible to recap these Linns as that might make a big improvement in SQ?
Do you think it would be sensible to recap these Linns as that might make a big improvement in SQ?
Recapping in the sense of exchanging old ones with new ones (exact value replacement) would not have made a difference in that sense. I was aiming at modifying the values that would have increased the SPL at the crossover frequency and the whole tweeter spl by reducing the padding. You can not perform these changes accurately without measuring. Manufacturers do have a history of using that trick to create different SQ ranges and we buyers are not aware of it until we start exploring the DIY thing. This has tought us that loudspeaker units are far less important than initially believed to be. There is enough information in this forum on how to execute these mods but it's scattered all over the place. Still, if you have at least a tiny bit of faith in it, you will succeed with some help from members.
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I was wondering if the original caps are now out of spec by a fair amount as these are 25 years old. That said, my Missions are just as old and they sound as good as they ever did.
Does how the speakers have been used have an effect on the longevity of the caps? I've always treated my Missions with care, never played them very loud, but I'm wondering if these Linns have lived a rather less pampered life, such as playing Napalm Death at obnoxious volume for years on end. Then again, I suppose the tweeters would be the first things to degrade if abused and they sound fine.
The only thing 'wrong' with these Linns is that there is a lack of the very fine detail, I feel like there's a slight veil of haze drawn over the sound, obscuring and muddying things.
Does how the speakers have been used have an effect on the longevity of the caps? I've always treated my Missions with care, never played them very loud, but I'm wondering if these Linns have lived a rather less pampered life, such as playing Napalm Death at obnoxious volume for years on end. Then again, I suppose the tweeters would be the first things to degrade if abused and they sound fine.
The only thing 'wrong' with these Linns is that there is a lack of the very fine detail, I feel like there's a slight veil of haze drawn over the sound, obscuring and muddying things.
Capacitors deteriorate faster at high temperatures. The only way to know whether they have deteriorated is by measuring them.
A 'veil' + 'lack of fine detail' could mean that the top octave is at a reduced level. Adding a capacitor in parallel with the padding resistor (the resistor that is in series with the tweeter) can increase sound output at this region.
A 'veil' + 'lack of fine detail' could mean that the top octave is at a reduced level. Adding a capacitor in parallel with the padding resistor (the resistor that is in series with the tweeter) can increase sound output at this region.
I appreciate all the help guys. A friend is just finishing off his new home recording studio and when he's done, I'm gonna take both sets of speakers there for a good A-B listening session and compare both to his studio monitors, see if we can figure out the differences in more detail.
Obvious point - sorry if I am teaching granny to suck eggs - but the photo of the rear that has been posted has bi-wire terminals - therefore are you bi-wiring or bi amping because if you are not then there needs to be a link between the posts (+ to + and - to -) on the rear of the speakers to get the signal from the amp to both low and high drivers. What you may be hearing is just the bass driver working and not the tweeter which would reduced the top end clarity a lot.
Link below shows normal, bi-wire and bi-amp combinations. If you haven't got the metal type connectors then a bit of speaker wire will work.
Singapore HiFi & IT Online Store
That said - based on this report http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/Backup-old-site/LinnIndex2.PDF it looks like it is a laid back speaker where as the Mission I suspect is the opposite and you are actually hearing the differences in the speakers OK.
Link below shows normal, bi-wire and bi-amp combinations. If you haven't got the metal type connectors then a bit of speaker wire will work.
Singapore HiFi & IT Online Store
That said - based on this report http://www.legendspeakers.com.au/Backup-old-site/LinnIndex2.PDF it looks like it is a laid back speaker where as the Mission I suspect is the opposite and you are actually hearing the differences in the speakers OK.
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No, please don't apologise, you might have just solved my problem. I have my wires plugged into the bottom terminals and nothing plugged into the top ones.
I wanted to bi-amp them as I have two Linn Roomamps that I use as power amps, but don't know how to do it. I asked at the Linn forum and got no reply:
Bi-amping Linn Index mk2 with 2x RoomAmp
"Hi folks
A few months back my Marantz PM66SE amp died on me so I ended up replacing it with a Yamaha DSP-E800 and a pair of Linn RoomAmps.
The DSP-E800 is doing double duty as I am using it's onboard 24/96 DAC to play music from my PC via TOSlink and it is also functioning as my preamp with the two RoomAmps connected to it as power amps, one driving the front speakers, the other driving the rears, the centre speaker is running off the DSP-E800.
I have the RoomAmps connected using the RCAs as below:
My front speakers are a pair of Mission 731s which I've always been happy with, but when I saw a pair of Linn Index Mk2s (75W rating, two sets of terminals) for 45ukp locally, I snapped them up and they do sound lovely being driven by one of the RoomAmps hooked up to the lower terminals of the Indexes.
I rarely use the surround speakers so what I'm thinking is can I use both RoomAmps and bi-amp the Indexes? If so, how do I go about setting it up?
The rear of my Indexes:
"
I wanted to bi-amp them as I have two Linn Roomamps that I use as power amps, but don't know how to do it. I asked at the Linn forum and got no reply:
Bi-amping Linn Index mk2 with 2x RoomAmp
"Hi folks
A few months back my Marantz PM66SE amp died on me so I ended up replacing it with a Yamaha DSP-E800 and a pair of Linn RoomAmps.
The DSP-E800 is doing double duty as I am using it's onboard 24/96 DAC to play music from my PC via TOSlink and it is also functioning as my preamp with the two RoomAmps connected to it as power amps, one driving the front speakers, the other driving the rears, the centre speaker is running off the DSP-E800.
I have the RoomAmps connected using the RCAs as below:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My front speakers are a pair of Mission 731s which I've always been happy with, but when I saw a pair of Linn Index Mk2s (75W rating, two sets of terminals) for 45ukp locally, I snapped them up and they do sound lovely being driven by one of the RoomAmps hooked up to the lower terminals of the Indexes.
I rarely use the surround speakers so what I'm thinking is can I use both RoomAmps and bi-amp the Indexes? If so, how do I go about setting it up?
The rear of my Indexes:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
"
I would keep it simple to start with, just add a wire between the top and bottom L and R speaker terminals and single wire them as per the top diagram in the link. This will tell you if the Linns are working OK. If you are on spotify ther are a number of speaker test playlists that have frequency sine wave tracks, try these from 50, 100, 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000 to check both woofers and tweeters are working.
Well, I made a couple of bridges from some bits of wire and found four spare banana plugs and wired it up....
Big difference, they now sound great,the missing detail has returned
I don't know whether to be pleased or embarrassed
I am most grateful for the advice however
I've ordered some more speaker cable so I can try em bi-amped
Big difference, they now sound great,the missing detail has returned
I don't know whether to be pleased or embarrassed
I am most grateful for the advice however
I've ordered some more speaker cable so I can try em bi-amped
Well if that turns out to be the case, then it's another example - not that one is never needed - as to what assuming does. That said, the Index was still not my favorite standmount of that era - and certainly not my favorite Linn. I did own a pair of Khelidhs for about a decade before falling down the rabbit hole of DIY in the late '90s or so.
It's nobody's fault. The speakers must originally have come with copper links on the biwire.
Once they were lost, the instructions don't make sense! 😀
Once they were lost, the instructions don't make sense! 😀
No problem, you are welcome. I have often been bailed out by people stating the obvious so I try and return the compliment 🙂 Anyway, glad you are sorted.
As for Spotify, if you have a phone or tablet or pc/laptop download the app and set up a free account and you have access to 40 million tracks in ok quality (you can pay a monthly subscription for better quality). The free app has adverts but these are tolerable. This has rekindled my love for music as I can listen to pretty much any album I can think of and it has a function to carry on playing similar songs after the album has finished. I have found some real gems that way and seen a few new bands live because of it.
Looks like the pc route woukd be any for you to try.
Go Premium - Spotify
Finally, if you bi-amp do not forget to remove the links!
I assume (big risk doing that) that you have read up on the trick to get the linn roomamps working a power amps without the kontroller. Iirc, but do check, you connect the pre-out from the preamp/processor to the audio out (not in) on the room amps.
For bi-amping you will need some rca y connectors, these go in the main l/r outputs on the dsp-e800. So you now have 2 left and 2 right rca connections. Now you can either use 1 amp per speaker (vertical biamp) or one for low and one for high (horizontal biamp). Horizontal is the more usual as it makes sure each channel in each amp sees the same load.
Splitters like this 1 RCA Male Plug to 2 Female Phono Sockets Y Splitter: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics or this 1 RCA Phono male to 2 female Audio Gold Splitter: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
So connections are,
Y splitters into the main left/right outputs on the dsp gaining now 2 left and 2 right connections (l1,l2, r1, r2). L1 anspd r1 go to left and right audio out one one linn (low) and l2 and r2 to the second (high). The low linn amp speakers outs are then connected to the lower speakers connectors on left and right speakers and the same for the second high linn amp and the upper speakers connectors.
Hope this helps.
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