Hello, I'm an amateur speaker builder and just got into the hobby not too long ago. I recently setup my new office and was looking for some small speakers to use at my desk (music while working, lite gaming, etcs).
This is the space I'm designing for:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=659922&stc=1&d=1517445439
Budget could be $2-300 before amplification:
My requirements:
1) Reference quality if not close to it
2) Small enough to fit on my desk without being obnoxiously too big (maybe 2-3" drivers?). Preferably to be no more than 6" in dept so it doesn't take up too much space away from the wall in term of placement.
3) A design that comes with crossover design. I don't know enough to design my own.
I have wood working experience so I won't have a problem building a custom enclosure.
Any help to point me to a direction would be greatly appreciated! I'm just looking a decently fun project to sink some time.
Thanks!
This is the space I'm designing for:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=659922&stc=1&d=1517445439
Budget could be $2-300 before amplification:
My requirements:
1) Reference quality if not close to it
2) Small enough to fit on my desk without being obnoxiously too big (maybe 2-3" drivers?). Preferably to be no more than 6" in dept so it doesn't take up too much space away from the wall in term of placement.
3) A design that comes with crossover design. I don't know enough to design my own.
I have wood working experience so I won't have a problem building a custom enclosure.
Any help to point me to a direction would be greatly appreciated! I'm just looking a decently fun project to sink some time.
Thanks!
Attachments
There are a few neat designs I have seen. Jeff Bagby has his quarks, there was this one too:The Bantams Micro Speaker System - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum.
You should not need to spend more than about $100 for a great speaker.
The good news also is that either of these fit in the parts express cabinet Denovo Audio Knock-Down MDF 0.04 cu. ft. Micro Bookshelf Speaker Cabinet Pair
You should not need to spend more than about $100 for a great speaker.
The good news also is that either of these fit in the parts express cabinet Denovo Audio Knock-Down MDF 0.04 cu. ft. Micro Bookshelf Speaker Cabinet Pair
Are you willing to use a sub? That would kind of open up some options. Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
You can also think about building speakers in a fashion that your monitor can sit on them.
Full range drivers are fantastic for near-field use. There are a lot of designs that will surprise you with the amount of bass and crystal clear mids and highs.
You can start here: http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-BabyLabs-081015.pdf
I've built the Redeyes. They are surprisingly great sounding speakers. I would recommend either the Stinger or the Bloodhound, though. They both use Mark Audio drivers, which are phenomenal drivers.
Another thought is a speaker that mounts on the wall: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-119.html#post4556798 or http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...board-speaker-enclosures-147.html#post3400954
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
You can also think about building speakers in a fashion that your monitor can sit on them.
Full range drivers are fantastic for near-field use. There are a lot of designs that will surprise you with the amount of bass and crystal clear mids and highs.
You can start here: http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-BabyLabs-081015.pdf
I've built the Redeyes. They are surprisingly great sounding speakers. I would recommend either the Stinger or the Bloodhound, though. They both use Mark Audio drivers, which are phenomenal drivers.
Another thought is a speaker that mounts on the wall: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-119.html#post4556798 or http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...board-speaker-enclosures-147.html#post3400954
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
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So I designed a fantastic sounding 2-way speaker in a ported 0.23 cubic foot cabinet with a F3 just under 50Hz. The design uses Tang Band W4-1720 and Vifa XT25TG30-04. This is a 4 ohm speaker with pretty low sensitivity. However, for desktop listening, 30 watts is enough. With 100W amplifier, these get too loud for my comfort and excursion starts to become a problem. But for nearfield listening they are among the best I've ever listened to. I wish I still had the design file to print out the response but here is what I have on hand. I still use these as desktop speakers 4 years after designing them....
See attached BOM. The unfinished MDF cabinet is part number 300-7062 on parts express. If you are interested I'll snap some photos and measure the front panel layout....
See attached BOM. The unfinished MDF cabinet is part number 300-7062 on parts express. If you are interested I'll snap some photos and measure the front panel layout....
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To add further to what Mike said… anything more than a FR will have issues integrating if listened to near-field. One can put together some pretty impressive FRs for your budget and there are a wide range of choices. My favorites are Fostex FF85wk, Mark Audio Alpair 5.2/6.2m/6.2p. If you can live with 5 litres or so, there are also lots of 4” to look at.’
dave
dave
Lots of good advice already. My experience supports going this way:
I tried very miniature (under 3") speakers and found them OK for for gaming but not enough when playing back music.
- I'm familiar with how the song should sound, so my memory protests at the mini version
- I'm usually further away from the speakers when music is on
If desktop space is critical, could you possibly wall mount your build, or put speakers on stands (and affix the stands to the desktop)?
A nice looking build (and mounting) here:
HIFI4ALL Forum: Mine første DIY højttalere
...or try an image search on [sphere speakers DIY] for similar ideas / materials.
I tried very miniature (under 3") speakers and found them OK for for gaming but not enough when playing back music.
- I'm familiar with how the song should sound, so my memory protests at the mini version
- I'm usually further away from the speakers when music is on
If desktop space is critical, could you possibly wall mount your build, or put speakers on stands (and affix the stands to the desktop)?
A nice looking build (and mounting) here:
HIFI4ALL Forum: Mine første DIY højttalere
...or try an image search on [sphere speakers DIY] for similar ideas / materials.
I can still enjoy the music with the lowest 2 octaves missing. If you need those add a little woofer.
dave
dave
I built some desktop speakers using the 10F-8414 and the ND25FA-4 not so long ago.
thread here: PC desktop speakers
Later I pulled the resistor on the tweeter to get a nice response and built a mini "sub" to make it a 2.1 system using the Dayton MCA2250E. Not a fan of the amp, signal to noise is horrible. Hmm maybe I should update that thread 😛
thread here: PC desktop speakers
Later I pulled the resistor on the tweeter to get a nice response and built a mini "sub" to make it a 2.1 system using the Dayton MCA2250E. Not a fan of the amp, signal to noise is horrible. Hmm maybe I should update that thread 😛
Guys, thanks for all the fantastic recommendations! I didn't expect for so many replies so quickly and I appreciate everyone of em'! Keep em coming!
I will take some time to take a deeper dive in each of the recommended designs. My initial thought is that I am liking the idea of using a smaller FR build since that would eliminate extra work toward the crossovers.
Yesterday I came across the nScan design using the Scan-Speak 10F-8424G (nScan-ken)
Blog: Alpair 6.2P & 7.3M / Scan-Speak 10F DIY speakers | Super Best Audio Friends
I'm particularly interested in this design because of the small footprint and it being a FR so that def crosses off a lot of things on my list. My only concern is its sound quality. The 10F-8424G drivers are ~$100 each so I assume they're decent drivers. Is this driver overkill for a design this simple? Will it worth the $200+ pricetag? I would love to to hear what you guys think (esp. Dave since this plan comes from your site).
Thank y'all!
I will take some time to take a deeper dive in each of the recommended designs. My initial thought is that I am liking the idea of using a smaller FR build since that would eliminate extra work toward the crossovers.
Yesterday I came across the nScan design using the Scan-Speak 10F-8424G (nScan-ken)
Blog: Alpair 6.2P & 7.3M / Scan-Speak 10F DIY speakers | Super Best Audio Friends
I'm particularly interested in this design because of the small footprint and it being a FR so that def crosses off a lot of things on my list. My only concern is its sound quality. The 10F-8424G drivers are ~$100 each so I assume they're decent drivers. Is this driver overkill for a design this simple? Will it worth the $200+ pricetag? I would love to to hear what you guys think (esp. Dave since this plan comes from your site).
Thank y'all!
The nScan-Ken is a decided winner if the very small size (net 0.8 litre) is the deciding factor, The 10F is very smooth, but bass is lacking (think 120-140 Hz vrs 75-85 hz of uFonken or uMar-Ken and highs are also MIA. So for significant dollars you get limited performance. There is a cheaper 10F that has greater frequency range but it also needs a bigger box. Once you get there it is well worth considering the FF85wk or Alpair 5.2/6.2m or p. The A6.2p in th 2.5 litre net uMar-Ken is the bass leader here and it has a “vintage” top end that many like (ie me). This last design is the one i chose for my brief-case system. The same box accomodates the metal A6 with similar bass and more extended top.
The mMar-Ken you linked to is ~ 2x the volume at 4.7L net, but gets near maximum out of the A6.2p and probably represents the driver that gives best overall performance to this (standard) sized box — we put a very wide range of drivers into the same box, just adjusting the details of driver mounting and vent..
I personally prefer it to a set of LS3/5A i restored for a friend.
Also, given your budget, you could well consider the tarted up versions of these drivers.
dave
The mMar-Ken you linked to is ~ 2x the volume at 4.7L net, but gets near maximum out of the A6.2p and probably represents the driver that gives best overall performance to this (standard) sized box — we put a very wide range of drivers into the same box, just adjusting the details of driver mounting and vent..
I personally prefer it to a set of LS3/5A i restored for a friend.
Also, given your budget, you could well consider the tarted up versions of these drivers.
dave
Hey Dave, appreciate the quick reply.
I wasn't particularly interested in the mMar-ken from the blog, it just happens the blog talked about both the mMar-Ken and nScan-ken. I find your analysis of the nScan-ken very useful as it being a less-valued design in term $$/performance but the trade-off being its much smaller footprint size.
I am a bit more intrigued with the 2.5 litre design. It's hard to judge from the picture you posted, but what is the depth of the cabinet from the first pic (light-maple one, brief-case?). It seems most of its volume comes from its height and so the depth appears to be thinner. I do care a bit about depth due to my table being a corner one so the thinner the speakers end up being the easier it is to place on my desk.
I wasn't particularly interested in the mMar-ken from the blog, it just happens the blog talked about both the mMar-Ken and nScan-ken. I find your analysis of the nScan-ken very useful as it being a less-valued design in term $$/performance but the trade-off being its much smaller footprint size.
I am a bit more intrigued with the 2.5 litre design. It's hard to judge from the picture you posted, but what is the depth of the cabinet from the first pic (light-maple one, brief-case?). It seems most of its volume comes from its height and so the depth appears to be thinner. I do care a bit about depth due to my table being a corner one so the thinner the speakers end up being the easier it is to place on my desk.
One more shout out to the Mark Audio drivers. I've not heard the Scan-Speak drivers, so I can't give any opinions about them. I've heard a couple Fostex drivers and, while they do well in clarity, mids, and higher frequencies, they lack bass unless you can put them in more complex enclosures.
I have heard a few of the Mark Audio drivers and feel they're probably the best bang for the buck. Of the ones I've heard, they work well all the way around, in a handful of different, simple enclosures. I have the Alpair 7's, CHP-70's, CHN 70's and Alpair 10.2's. I'm now trying to decide between the Alpair 5 and 6, just because I know they'll sound great, whichever one I choose.
So, I guess I'm just saying, if in doubt, go with a Mark Audio driver.
Mike
I have heard a few of the Mark Audio drivers and feel they're probably the best bang for the buck. Of the ones I've heard, they work well all the way around, in a handful of different, simple enclosures. I have the Alpair 7's, CHP-70's, CHN 70's and Alpair 10.2's. I'm now trying to decide between the Alpair 5 and 6, just because I know they'll sound great, whichever one I choose.
So, I guess I'm just saying, if in doubt, go with a Mark Audio driver.
Mike
I quickly wiped up the extents page for the A6x planset — does not include some of the specialized plans or custom derivation:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/planset/MarKen-A6-extents-010218.pdf
And one of th especialized plans i am happy to release for non-comercial use. A thot experiement attaempting to do as small as possible enclosure for A6.2m (1.5 litrenet) but the vent becomes so large it doesn’t give much over the µMr-Ken6.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/nMar-Ken62m-plan.pdf
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/planset/MarKen-A6-extents-010218.pdf
And one of th especialized plans i am happy to release for non-comercial use. A thot experiement attaempting to do as small as possible enclosure for A6.2m (1.5 litrenet) but the vent becomes so large it doesn’t give much over the µMr-Ken6.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/nMar-Ken62m-plan.pdf
dave
mike - what's the application for which you'd be selecting between the A5.2 & A6? I've heard them all in several different enclosure types.
Nice work on those plans, Dave!
I'm particularly liking the last 2 because of the sub-5" depth!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=660076&stc=1&d=1517517844
What are the approximate volumes for these two designs? I assume the bigger one would have better bass extension but feel free to add your own thoughts on the size difference?
More importantly, it seems the larger enclosure is designed for the A6.2m and the smaller one is for both a6.2m and a6.2p. What are the differences between the M and P version of the a6.2?
I'm particularly liking the last 2 because of the sub-5" depth!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=660076&stc=1&d=1517517844
What are the approximate volumes for these two designs? I assume the bigger one would have better bass extension but feel free to add your own thoughts on the size difference?
More importantly, it seems the larger enclosure is designed for the A6.2m and the smaller one is for both a6.2m and a6.2p. What are the differences between the M and P version of the a6.2?
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Hi Chris,
I'm not sure yet. I'm even thinking of going with a line array in the fashion of the design on the Mark Audio site for the CHR-70's, maybe with the CHP-70's if they would work.
I have plenty of sets of speakers, so it's not like I need a set for any particular application.
I've read the A5.2 is great in a mini FH, so that's tempting.
I built a pair of Redeyes, so I wouldn't mind building another set of Baby Labs, either the Bloodhounds or Stingers,too.
It's just this hobby and always looking for another enjoyable set of speakers. I like a decent bass response, if that helps.....
Thanks,
Mike
So, with that clarification, do you have any recommendations???? 😉
The paper coned driver has more bass potential, but it needs to be in a larger box (5 litre net) to get there. The larger of the 2 boxes you posted (3.6 litre net) is optimum size for a miniOnken fo rthe metal cone and maximizes bass. The smaller enclosure (2.5 litre net) will have the same bass with either driver, th edifferences coming mid & top. You can take the broad brush of the earlier A6.2p/A7.3/Scan-Ken article to get an idea of the differnce between paper & metal.
I could, but haven’t yet, retuned the dmCGR for the paper cone driver.
dave
Consider a 36" tall cabinet in order to get the volume for 42Hz woofer-bass with just a modest footprint on the table.
"The Tall Boys"
5" SB15MFC30-8 midbass $54 plus 0.75" SB21RDC-4 dome tweeter $33
W=7" H=36" D=5.5" 0.4cuft 0.75" plywood
-F3=42Hz
=== here is another small-box thread for the 4" Tang Band====
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
Tang band W4-1720
Vifa D26NC55-06
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
"The Tall Boys"
5" SB15MFC30-8 midbass $54 plus 0.75" SB21RDC-4 dome tweeter $33
W=7" H=36" D=5.5" 0.4cuft 0.75" plywood
-F3=42Hz
=== here is another small-box thread for the 4" Tang Band====
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
Tang band W4-1720
Vifa D26NC55-06
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
The 4" (or larger) full range designs that Dave and others are suggesting would be my pick.
Again, why not stand mount them, so your choice won't be constrained by enclosure depth?
- this pic shows a desktop setup with a very small footprint. It uses a $10 table leg as the stand.
This cabinet style (whatever driver you choose) seems like another good idea / use of space. I'd add weight to the bases and/or affix them to the tabletop to prevent accidentally knocking them over.
Again, why not stand mount them, so your choice won't be constrained by enclosure depth?
- this pic shows a desktop setup with a very small footprint. It uses a $10 table leg as the stand.
This cabinet style (whatever driver you choose) seems like another good idea / use of space. I'd add weight to the bases and/or affix them to the tabletop to prevent accidentally knocking them over.
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PARTS EXPRESS: C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets are on sale for $100 per pair, which includes cabinets, ports, and all crossover parts required to construct one pair of speakers. List price is $220/pair.
Larger than your goal. Dimensions: 11" H x 7.5" W x 9.5" D
C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets
"Dayton Audio's DSA135-8 5" Designer Series woofer is used for the midrange and low frequencies. With an aluminum cone and a powerful motor designed for low distortion, this woofer produces bass with authority while remaining smooth through the midrange frequencies. The high frequencies are handled by the ND25FW-4 1" soft dome tweeter, also from Dayton Audio. This waveguide-loaded tweeter controls high frequency dispersion for smooth off axis response and natural sound. Another advantage of the waveguide design is that it allows the voice coil to set further back from the baffle for an almost perfect time alignment with the woofer."
Specifications:
• Power handling: 60 watts RMS/120 watts max
• Frequency response: ±3 dB from 43-20,000 Hz (±2 dB from 60-16,000 Hz)
• Impedance: 8 ohms
• Sensitivity: 85 dB 1W/1m
• Dimensions: 11" H x 7.5" W x 9.5" D
Larger than your goal. Dimensions: 11" H x 7.5" W x 9.5" D
C-Note MT Bookshelf Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets
"Dayton Audio's DSA135-8 5" Designer Series woofer is used for the midrange and low frequencies. With an aluminum cone and a powerful motor designed for low distortion, this woofer produces bass with authority while remaining smooth through the midrange frequencies. The high frequencies are handled by the ND25FW-4 1" soft dome tweeter, also from Dayton Audio. This waveguide-loaded tweeter controls high frequency dispersion for smooth off axis response and natural sound. Another advantage of the waveguide design is that it allows the voice coil to set further back from the baffle for an almost perfect time alignment with the woofer."
Specifications:
• Power handling: 60 watts RMS/120 watts max
• Frequency response: ±3 dB from 43-20,000 Hz (±2 dB from 60-16,000 Hz)
• Impedance: 8 ohms
• Sensitivity: 85 dB 1W/1m
• Dimensions: 11" H x 7.5" W x 9.5" D
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