I have recently acquired a 1956 Montgomery Ward 3-Speaker Console (2 Jenson 8 in. Woofers and 1 Jenson 3.5 in. Tweeter) and am looking for a little information on the amplifier in the unit.
More specifically, I am attempting to locate the Dayton replacement capacitors, in order to bring a little life back into the old beast and get rid of the nasty buzz and heat associated with the leaky paper caps. Attached pictures are what I've got so far from the console.
More specifically, I am attempting to locate the Dayton replacement capacitors, in order to bring a little life back into the old beast and get rid of the nasty buzz and heat associated with the leaky paper caps. Attached pictures are what I've got so far from the console.
Attachments
![IMG_20220709_122516102[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/978/978975-c9306f16c69070ed40e447e9c0aeb2b5.jpg?hash=yTBvFsaQcO)
![IMG_20220709_125628529[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/978/978976-f29acb52319702674c90c26135628fed.jpg?hash=8prLUjGXAm)
![IMG_20220709_124213930[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/978/978977-c6533be40009f51a7c812d31c491e630.jpg?hash=xlM75AAJ9R)
![IMG_20220710_110636600[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/978/978978-2f59bb720fdfdda76707228c3a74db54.jpg?hash=L1m7cg_f3a)
![IMG_20220710_110646590[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/978/978979-be38d1a895d71c3e8a151070f5eeaf7e.jpg?hash=vjjRqJXXHD)
Great site for schematics.
https://worldradiohistory.com/Rider-Manual.htm
Looks like the main chassis has a power transformer, great news for safety. The amplifier chassis might be a different story. Watch out for possible hot chassis. Upgrading hot chassis radios for safety can be quite a project.
I have found that those old paper foil caps seldom need replacing. The electrolytic nearly always do. I do not prophylacticly replace the paper foil, but always do so for the electrolytics.
Good luck, looks like a nice unit for restoration.
https://worldradiohistory.com/Rider-Manual.htm
Looks like the main chassis has a power transformer, great news for safety. The amplifier chassis might be a different story. Watch out for possible hot chassis. Upgrading hot chassis radios for safety can be quite a project.
I have found that those old paper foil caps seldom need replacing. The electrolytic nearly always do. I do not prophylacticly replace the paper foil, but always do so for the electrolytics.
Good luck, looks like a nice unit for restoration.
Circuit looks like this one, going by the tube list: https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/montgomery_airline_gaa_2509c.html#c (not many used the 6BL7 tube)
Didn't see one in a console cabinet, but chassis may be the same.
Didn't see one in a console cabinet, but chassis may be the same.
Good find. But Simpson's rig has a second chassis with two 50C5 and a 12AX7. This reeks of a 5-Watt booster for the bigger console and higher price. But 50C5 and 12AX7 HAS to be a transformerless amplifier; there's no other excuse for that tube line-up. While it is possible that every exposed part is transformer isolated one way or another, I would be very paranoid. Also many things inside the 50C5 chassis is probably LIVE to house ground.
As for parts: find a good Tube Guitar Amp shop. The usual shops have an overwhelming assortment of parts you just do not want. Weber and Hoffman have just parts for domestic tube amps. (IMHO this chassis does not justify badger-oil boutique parts.)
Missed the stereo add-on. I once found a Delmonico console with a German AM/FM chassis with the usual 6BQ5 output and a separate 12AX7 / 2x 50C5 second channel. Volume and tone controls mounted below radio. Quick way to get a stereo on the market; probably one-year-only production.
Replace all those Goodman and white Olson caps with fresh new caps.
Replace the main filter E caps C1-ABC and C7-8-9 with a suitable modern replacement from https://www.tubesandmore.com/
In the tuner, do not move or re-position anything, including wiring. - and the replacement caps oriented in exactly the same spots.
It may involve some I.F and R.F. re-alignment afterwords.
Of course the record changer will require new rubber, stylus/cartridge, and cleaning re-lubing.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt too.
Replace the main filter E caps C1-ABC and C7-8-9 with a suitable modern replacement from https://www.tubesandmore.com/
In the tuner, do not move or re-position anything, including wiring. - and the replacement caps oriented in exactly the same spots.
It may involve some I.F and R.F. re-alignment afterwords.
Of course the record changer will require new rubber, stylus/cartridge, and cleaning re-lubing.
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt too.
One transformer… a PP 50C5 amplifier. Likely paraphase splitter. I’d consider gut & rebuild. The 50C5 and 50EH5 often used the raw 120 V AC (with a series R). That is a safety issue. The old transformer isolation transformers use sin bathrooms in the old days are just about perfect. 120V:120V 20VA.
With modern sources you do not need the gain so something more limear with less mu can be used.
The tuner part, well...
dave
The one thing that irks me is.....
While we know it's an Airline brand console...
Nothing is mentioned about what model number it is...
Or even a chassis ID number.
A few photos do not help.
Without the numbers, there is nothing more I can investigate.
While we know it's an Airline brand console...
Nothing is mentioned about what model number it is...
Or even a chassis ID number.
A few photos do not help.
Without the numbers, there is nothing more I can investigate.
All those old handmade chassis look like someone barfed a stomach full of components into the chassis at random, though I'm sure there were detailed assembly drawings...
Actually, those hand-wired chassis from the tube era 50's/60's were carefully thought-out, and the components were arranged specifically for excellent operation and reliability.
It might look like a mess, but trust me, those buggers lasted, and still perform quite well once the old wax caps and out-of-tolerence resistors are changed.
My 1963 RCA Victor console stereo sounds tremendous today, even though it was a pain to service.
The preamp/tuner chassis is pictured here....
Tough - it still looks like an absolute mess, scripted or not. I'm out of here - you can say what you like, but I won't be hearing it.
And that, ^ people, is a classic example of a narrow-minded biased mind.
Someone who judges something they obviously don't have a clue about, yet concludes their opinion based on appearance.
Likely a vintage Sherwood, Marantz, McIntosh, Fisher, Scott..... or other "hand wired" products are barf junk too.
Someone who judges something they obviously don't have a clue about, yet concludes their opinion based on appearance.
Likely a vintage Sherwood, Marantz, McIntosh, Fisher, Scott..... or other "hand wired" products are barf junk too.
I would do the exact opposite: try to reform electrolytics and only replace them if it doesn't work out, and replace paper capacitors where leakage can cause damage, like the ones that have the full mains voltage across them, the AC coupling capacitors of the output stage and especially input coupling capacitors of a radio that's not insulated from the mains - replace those with Y capacitors.
I checked the schematic database of the Dutch historical radio society NVHR, but for Montgomery Ward, they only have schematics for portable radios (listed under Airline).
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In today's market, re-forming old electrolytics is nonsense.
You cannot trust them, and it's foolish to play with them. - a ticking time bomb.
Same goes for the old wax caps, and the ones in ceramic tubes.
Get Rid Of Them!
12 years since I restored my old 1963 console, and not any problems now - peace of mind.
You cannot trust them, and it's foolish to play with them. - a ticking time bomb.
Same goes for the old wax caps, and the ones in ceramic tubes.
Get Rid Of Them!
12 years since I restored my old 1963 console, and not any problems now - peace of mind.
The market has nothing to do with it, it's the desire to keep historical equipment as original as possible.
I have also reformed electrolytics for my own radios with good success. If they did become “a time bomb” I can deal with it, but if restoring for someone else they need replacing. Also, if you want to preserve the history of the original build I will sometimes restuff the old cans with new caps, or just reform. Some of the old chassis make it quite difficult to replace or rebuild the old cans.
So, there is no pat answer on how to restore. Sometimes the less you mess with something the better the results.
So, there is no pat answer on how to restore. Sometimes the less you mess with something the better the results.
If some product is very rare, collectable, and largely valuable, I can understand the obsession.
However, this way of thinking is driven into people's heads for mass-produced common products also, and is vast overkill, silly to attempt, and also drives repair/labor costs up.
There are alternative ways a lot more sensible, that can produce results equal to, or beyond original perfomance.