I decided to trust my ears and I've been doing some experiments without measuring with rew and umik.
Some findings after Norgaard:
i was using a peak filter with +6db and Q=1 at 50hz - with a low shelf the result was what you said. I also raised the boost to +12db. - It's more relaxed and tamed without losing presence.
With LR12db
The blending at 550hz that i had before is not a good choice for the beta's and the Markaudios. I'm crossing at 175hz after a lot of iterations by earing and i found out that the Markaudio's are really awsome. I was a little disapointed with them. It looks like the beta's were hiding them.
I will measure "as is" with rew and umik and see what it looks like. However, it's a complete different sounding system.
Thank you Norgaard.
The problem remains - What path? I now have a different and more enjoyable sound but the ACN from Nelson Pass would have to change a lot to adapt to this changes and after the reports and choices from your musician friends i feel that the lx mini +2 is the right path.
Is the Lii F15 a great improvement compared to the Markaudio 10.3? If so, i would leave the ACN for the lx mini's and buy the F15 for this OB. The Markaudio's would go to a different and closed box (a gift to my daughters - Wife approval effect).
Thank you
Some findings after Norgaard:
i was using a peak filter with +6db and Q=1 at 50hz - with a low shelf the result was what you said. I also raised the boost to +12db. - It's more relaxed and tamed without losing presence.
With LR12db
The blending at 550hz that i had before is not a good choice for the beta's and the Markaudios. I'm crossing at 175hz after a lot of iterations by earing and i found out that the Markaudio's are really awsome. I was a little disapointed with them. It looks like the beta's were hiding them.
I will measure "as is" with rew and umik and see what it looks like. However, it's a complete different sounding system.
Thank you Norgaard.
The problem remains - What path? I now have a different and more enjoyable sound but the ACN from Nelson Pass would have to change a lot to adapt to this changes and after the reports and choices from your musician friends i feel that the lx mini +2 is the right path.
Is the Lii F15 a great improvement compared to the Markaudio 10.3? If so, i would leave the ACN for the lx mini's and buy the F15 for this OB. The Markaudio's would go to a different and closed box (a gift to my daughters - Wife approval effect).
Thank you
After some balancing outputs at miniDSP i found that i had to attenuate -27db my AX14 amps that are feeding the Beta15s (2 in paralell). When i built the amp i was not thinking about pairing to open baffle. It seems that is over the roof for this application. Need your opinion, please.
Also, in my combination of Ba3-pre with 10db gain and Sony vfet from Diyaudio (one pair/channel) and low sensitivity Markaudio 10.3 i have to crank up the volume a lot to enjoy some good dynamics in room. I think that special first watt is gone with such cranking. At least, when i tried to measure distortion at 1Watt they were by spec.
So, would the Lii F15 (~95db) or other speaker and a better choice of bass amp would do the job, or should i change some parts in my AX14?
Thanks
Also, in my combination of Ba3-pre with 10db gain and Sony vfet from Diyaudio (one pair/channel) and low sensitivity Markaudio 10.3 i have to crank up the volume a lot to enjoy some good dynamics in room. I think that special first watt is gone with such cranking. At least, when i tried to measure distortion at 1Watt they were by spec.
So, would the Lii F15 (~95db) or other speaker and a better choice of bass amp would do the job, or should i change some parts in my AX14?
Thanks
I have been curious about the Markaudios but never tried them.
My concern would be if you can get on with the whizzer peaks. To get the advertized curves for the F15, you probably need good old school Brüel&Kjær with the needle drawer - and run it at "warp speed" to avoid the 10-12dB peaks from showing up.
Yes, that amount of correction is best avoided in the DSP on the same xover. Benefit of adding the damping on the input of the amps is that it could lower noise on the sensitive woofers.
Because of request from the owner of the F15/Beta, I have been looking at F15 alternatives - but they do not come cheap.
Altec's 604, 605. Tannoys (they are reputed to have had quite a big variance across their production on the classic/older units). Maybe if fully refurbished this is reduced. But be careful. Goodmans?, Philips 5200? - cannot remember the sensitivity on these. Radian has a coax (I've been pleased with their 835PB's), and the Eminence KL3015 CXA support a screw in compression driver.
But what I'm using is the second generation ESS Great Heil AMT, together with two 15PR400's You can even take it down to 700Hz*. (It is a tweeter with the surface area of a 7" unit.) If you want to play really loud better 900-1000Hz. It just needs a low Q, low pass shelf, to counter the rising response.
*Don't try that with generation 1
Never to be underestimated 😊
One thing to still consider, is that the LX's will have a better constant directivity performance, and throw a convincing 3 dimensional phantom scene. With the sub's you arw also more likely to get the low end come "washing in" - is how I would describe it, with reference to what you were mentioning earlier.
The subs are not big and you'd have the option to move them around to avoid problems with poles and zeros in the listening position(s). with DSP/time-delay on these, the position range might be further expanded. You could then still use the ACN's for the mini's
The subs are not big and you'd have the option to move them around to avoid problems with poles and zeros in the listening position(s). with DSP/time-delay on these, the position range might be further expanded. You could then still use the ACN's for the mini's
Didn't understand. Sorry. Brüel&Kjær? Needle drawer? Don't forget i'm a musician! 😄
I really like the open baffle design and because i had a fostex 126 in a frugel horn in the past, was captivated buy the sound of it when playing voices and solo instruments, i want to try other full range drivers in open baffle.
I'll try to reduce gain on the bass amps and explore then options for the full range
If you look up B&K Level recorders, like 2305, 2307 etc. (I actually remember a setup including a 1024 generator type with a chain drive sync. but simply cannot remember the numbers for this) Anyway, you have a paper roll with a scribing needle imprinting the frequency response curve on the roll of logaritmic paper. Feed speed could then be set at varying rates. The jokes was that the faster the feed rate e.g. 100mm/s the harder it would be for the needle to follow the peaks and dips recorded 😉 on higher end speakers you would get a piece of paper with the actual measurement curve attached to it - or in the box.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...ar-audio-test-amp-measurement/images/1250979/
Surely there is more to it. But typically these imprint where always the marketing type with soft wavy curves for "good looks".
This is way before my time, but admittedly I knew the B&K 2032 quite well and later the R&S UPL & AP 2722....
No doubt about it, you are off to better start when the entire voice range is covered by just one unit. But you will eventually get doppler effects, "choose your poison as some say" 😆
Need help. I’m an idiot. I dumped out all the parts before assembly. So I don’t know which resistors are matched with the jfets. I populated all the other resistors and have eight 148 ohm and eight 27 ohm left over. Your help is appreciated.
Thanks. I need to populate R13 - R16; R17 - R20; R35 - R38; R39 and R42. That’s 14 resistors. Do you mean the 148 ohm are for R13 - R16 and R35 - R38; and the 27 ohm are for R17 - R20, R39 and R42?
R17-R20, R39, R42 should be 27K, not 27 Ohm. Article says typical value 4K or 10K, but here in this thread one can read that those can be up to 27K.
See: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/lx-mini-crossover-article.324747/page-52#post-7586618
And of course those "around 100 Ohm" are your 148 Ohm resistors.
See: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/lx-mini-crossover-article.324747/page-52#post-7586618
And of course those "around 100 Ohm" are your 148 Ohm resistors.
On more question. On the copy of the plans I have the parts list does not list anything for R40 or R41. The layout has an * for the holes for the jfet resistors, including R40 and R41. I do have two 27K resistors left. Should I put the two 27K resistors in R40 and R41? Thanks so much for your help.
The kit has 16 matched J113 JFET's along with 16 matched resistors for those JFET's. These resistors are for R13 - R20, R35 - R42, if you have two 27K resistors left from the kit, and all the other resistor positions are filled, then they are for R40 & R41.
somewhere I read that a lx mini XO + sub would be becoming available. Or are there alternatives?