Burson Audio have published spec for their discrete OPA
did you compare modern OP amp to Burson
which you prefer
Sorry but I only have heard the older ones (don't know any type number or name) which were really quite poor. I see V5 is a recent one so I should not comment on that one.
Before I switched to FDA I used mainly Haufe and Neutrik output transformers for balanced to unbalanced operation of DAC chips as I liked the simplicity and the results compared to opamps (but not the price). Before that I used many many opamps abut I am not the one that can tell which ones are now the best. In my stock still are new/unused OP627/637 which I liked, LME49860, LME49720, OPA2134, OPA2132 etc etc.but I think they will not be used.
Before I switched to FDA I used mainly Haufe and Neutrik output transformers for balanced to unbalanced operation of DAC chips as I liked the simplicity and the results compared to opamps (but not the price). Before that I used many many opamps abut I am not the one that can tell which ones are now the best. In my stock still are new/unused OP627/637 which I liked, LME49860, LME49720, OPA2134, OPA2132 etc etc.but I think they will not be used.
Last edited:
Looks OK but it was a sponsored review. They seem to have learnt from their past products. In the recent past all discrete built opamps lost from their industry IC cousins. I see there is also a mini version called V5i. They are not cheap, I have built DACs with no opamps at all for less than the cost of a pair of these 🙂
“Burson Audio V5i: The Little Brother of V5” - YoYo JoKeR’s Review of Burson Audio Supreme Sound Opamp V5i
Still I would like to see a comparison with transformers. I stopped using opamps for DAC chips with balanced outputs after I tried transformers (FWIW, depends on taste etc.). Nothing against opamps but i would not spend so much money when I can do without them. I tried discrete open loop designs too and liked them better than opamps. Opamps are nowadays really good but for DAC output stages there are also other good performing solutions. Point is that opamp stages often measure the best (if you care about the 0.000x numbers) 😀 It seems AK4495S DAC chip can be used with output transformers too. Just read some threads here about that. With DSD passive output seems appealing, not tried that (yet).
There was someone here that made opamp replacements with BF862 and only a few extra parts but I can not find it anymore. Seemed a nice "in between" solution when a buffer is needed. I think it was EUVL that made them.
“Burson Audio V5i: The Little Brother of V5” - YoYo JoKeR’s Review of Burson Audio Supreme Sound Opamp V5i
Still I would like to see a comparison with transformers. I stopped using opamps for DAC chips with balanced outputs after I tried transformers (FWIW, depends on taste etc.). Nothing against opamps but i would not spend so much money when I can do without them. I tried discrete open loop designs too and liked them better than opamps. Opamps are nowadays really good but for DAC output stages there are also other good performing solutions. Point is that opamp stages often measure the best (if you care about the 0.000x numbers) 😀 It seems AK4495S DAC chip can be used with output transformers too. Just read some threads here about that. With DSD passive output seems appealing, not tried that (yet).
There was someone here that made opamp replacements with BF862 and only a few extra parts but I can not find it anymore. Seemed a nice "in between" solution when a buffer is needed. I think it was EUVL that made them.
Last edited:
thank you for reply jean-paul,
can you share discrete open loop design you tried and approved
If only EUVL was still Interested at those discrete alternatives to Op amps
I certainly would like to get Patrick products Instead of buying from commercial brands
can you share discrete open loop design you tried and approved
If only EUVL was still Interested at those discrete alternatives to Op amps
I certainly would like to get Patrick products Instead of buying from commercial brands
Last edited:
I am very pleased by the sound of burson V5. I have Burson V4, which have better sound of all other opamps that I used before. But V5 is definitely better as the sound of V4. (for my taste)
I'm not try this silmic mod. My attitude to silmic is chnaged in time. Now i use them only for cheap signal path caps.
I am using transformer out with AK4495. To me, much better than the various opamp I/V on the board.
The transformer out is very simple too, just direct connect to primary with dac +/- out and secondary direct connect to RCA out. Maybe add a snubber across the secondary to reduce ringing (most transformer has it but you may or may not heard it)
Which brand & type ? I think Lundahl ? You did not use the middle connection at the primary side ?
If you attitude against the Silmic caps has changed the caps themselves have not changed have they ? You should adjust your attitude by making technical right decisions. You have made decoupling much worse by removing SMD decoupling caps. You can throw in as many boutique parts as you like but the chain is as strong as its weakest link. Burson opamps and caps touched by angels won't solve the now inadequate decoupling.
If you attitude against the Silmic caps has changed the caps themselves have not changed have they ? You should adjust your attitude by making technical right decisions. You have made decoupling much worse by removing SMD decoupling caps. You can throw in as many boutique parts as you like but the chain is as strong as its weakest link. Burson opamps and caps touched by angels won't solve the now inadequate decoupling.
Last edited:
I remove only 1 smd 100nF cap. The sound is perfect for me. Especially after the replacement all of tantalum capacitors with oscon's.
I agree with. For digital, I prefer to stick with smd and low esr caps like Panasonic FM or solid polymer like Oscon.
If one wants to use film caps for digital, there are now PPS film cap smd size.
http://www.kemet.com/Lists/Technica... Class-I C0G MLCC and SMD Film Capacitors.pdf
For local decoupling the humble X7R is the best choice, not only are the case sizes smaller for any given value, the first concern, but also the lossy nature helps reduce resonant and anti resonant peaks...
Having psent many many years doing boards and advising on layout for optimum signal integrity.EMC for a wide variety of electronic assemblies from basic cheap modules to many thousand pound military/aerospace flexi-rigid to mega sensitive high speed ADC/DAC to sensitive analogue also using simulation software to determine the performance of the power delivery system, they have all used X7Rs for local decoupling purposes (except for a couple of instances of oscillators for channel hopping radios, where a COG and an X7R combination was used.), it is the small sizes available that is of importance. With today's quite often high rise times you need a very small low inductance package to get the correct near instantaneous power deliver out of the decoupling capacitor (they only function is to provide power as fast as possible during the switching cycle so any parasitic inductance due to package size is detrimental to this function) so small size packages are best for any given capacitance, x7R's providing the best option. Multiplayer planar capacitance is even better, but is costly and out of reach of most DIY and commercial audio designs and still has to be used with local decoupling capacitors, with larger reservoir capacitors spread around the board.
This choice is not down to cost either, some single board assemblies cost so much they would make your eyes water and you could get a decent family car and still have change, nor vibration as many designs I work on are vibration tested to a level way way beyond what a simple audio circuit in a home is ever going to encounter... So you don,t need exotic caps for local decoupling just the smallest package size you can handle (0402's are good, 0201's are better, anything bigger is really to large to handle today's fast switching circuitry, here again I am referring to rise times).
For more sensitive locations then you are better with a C0G or decent film based cap and using a class 2 ceramic (X7R's etc.) is probably not the best choice, but for decoupling they do the job and do the job well, it is case size and parasitic inductance that are the primary concern for local decoupling capacitors, so small is best.
Having psent many many years doing boards and advising on layout for optimum signal integrity.EMC for a wide variety of electronic assemblies from basic cheap modules to many thousand pound military/aerospace flexi-rigid to mega sensitive high speed ADC/DAC to sensitive analogue also using simulation software to determine the performance of the power delivery system, they have all used X7Rs for local decoupling purposes (except for a couple of instances of oscillators for channel hopping radios, where a COG and an X7R combination was used.), it is the small sizes available that is of importance. With today's quite often high rise times you need a very small low inductance package to get the correct near instantaneous power deliver out of the decoupling capacitor (they only function is to provide power as fast as possible during the switching cycle so any parasitic inductance due to package size is detrimental to this function) so small size packages are best for any given capacitance, x7R's providing the best option. Multiplayer planar capacitance is even better, but is costly and out of reach of most DIY and commercial audio designs and still has to be used with local decoupling capacitors, with larger reservoir capacitors spread around the board.
This choice is not down to cost either, some single board assemblies cost so much they would make your eyes water and you could get a decent family car and still have change, nor vibration as many designs I work on are vibration tested to a level way way beyond what a simple audio circuit in a home is ever going to encounter... So you don,t need exotic caps for local decoupling just the smallest package size you can handle (0402's are good, 0201's are better, anything bigger is really to large to handle today's fast switching circuitry, here again I am referring to rise times).
For more sensitive locations then you are better with a C0G or decent film based cap and using a class 2 ceramic (X7R's etc.) is probably not the best choice, but for decoupling they do the job and do the job well, it is case size and parasitic inductance that are the primary concern for local decoupling capacitors, so small is best.
Does anyone know what the FPGA is handling on this dac? I noticed people preferred the sound of these aunes to even audio-gd gear which is well regarded. I was thinking this had some FPGA filtering somewhat like the chord just wondering if someone knows or has researched something of this?
i think all your mods are useless!
the only thing you can do is replacing caps and opamps,your fantasy just stops there!
iam very sure that you have no multimeter in your home,because if you have one you should have measured the rails of the analog supply and you must got very surprised before go for new opamps!
hi Venar,
We can't say that changing caps is useless. Many are doing that type of mod with success.
I haven't done it myself, thus I trust the people who did that.
But I agree with you : if you improve some caps without touching the PS, job is partly done.
PS are crap, even if they are called "linear" my manufacturers. By improving them, by changing regulators you find on the PCB, SQ improvement is huge (more details, more 3D, smoother sound etc).
I think that looking at the quality of the current should be the first step, before changing caps or other components.
Rgds
We can't say that changing caps is useless. Many are doing that type of mod with success.
I haven't done it myself, thus I trust the people who did that.
But I agree with you : if you improve some caps without touching the PS, job is partly done.
PS are crap, even if they are called "linear" my manufacturers. By improving them, by changing regulators you find on the PCB, SQ improvement is huge (more details, more 3D, smoother sound etc).
I think that looking at the quality of the current should be the first step, before changing caps or other components.
Rgds
- Status
- Not open for further replies.