I'm designing some 2-way/3-way speakers and am starting to think about where they may be positioned in my relatively small room. One unfortunate but very real issue is a neighbour who works nights, and a thin party-wall which allows quite a lot of sound through. I'm wondering what I can usefully do (if anything) with speaker placement.
The speakers will not have any rear ports, so maybe they'd be best located actually by the party-wall, facing away from it? Having them closer to the neighbour seems counterintuitive but presumably the primary sound being directed away from them would be beneficial. Though... in reality perhaps not very much due to all the room reflections and diffraction etc etc.
TBH I'm a bit pessimistic of it making much difference so (before I start disassembling furniture to move it all around) I wanted to ask what people have found or know about this kind of thing. Human perception of SPL doesn't seem especially linear or objective, and that speaker arrangement would mean a less desirable layout for the rest of the room, so not sure the likely results would make it worth going there?
Thanks,
Kev
The speakers will not have any rear ports, so maybe they'd be best located actually by the party-wall, facing away from it? Having them closer to the neighbour seems counterintuitive but presumably the primary sound being directed away from them would be beneficial. Though... in reality perhaps not very much due to all the room reflections and diffraction etc etc.
TBH I'm a bit pessimistic of it making much difference so (before I start disassembling furniture to move it all around) I wanted to ask what people have found or know about this kind of thing. Human perception of SPL doesn't seem especially linear or objective, and that speaker arrangement would mean a less desirable layout for the rest of the room, so not sure the likely results would make it worth going there?
Thanks,
Kev
I would say that there is nothing really effective you can do to with regard to the positioning of the speakers to prevent LF leakage through to next door given that the party wall is the problem. If you own your property then you could investigate adding insulation to the party wall. When I was converting my garage into a man cave I saw that there are systems which de-couple your room from next door like an additional hanging wall.
I settled for battening the walls, adding thick fibreglass insulation then Celotex sheets and then acoustic grade plaster board (weighs an absolute ton!) The garage is detached so there is no party wall, but I coiuld go deaf in there and no-one would know. Sort your room before building your speakers.
I settled for battening the walls, adding thick fibreglass insulation then Celotex sheets and then acoustic grade plaster board (weighs an absolute ton!) The garage is detached so there is no party wall, but I coiuld go deaf in there and no-one would know. Sort your room before building your speakers.
you could move the speakers closer to your listening position and reduce volume.
other than that I don't think you can do much, as low frequencies are most likely the problem and these are not easily directed to one direction and part of the room only. you should avoid the loudspeakers directly touching the wall, of course.
what about adding weight (book-shelf) or a plasterboard shell (with elastic mounting system and dampening material) to the wall?
You can build Open Baffle (Dipole) speakers and position them so that the party wall is on their side. Dipole side cancelation would reduce the sound pressure hitting the wall considerably (but not entirely).
Thanks both. It seems to be as I half expected, then; thanks for the info, has probably saved me a lot of wasted time disassembling/moving furniture
Unfortunately the room is rented; I can't even put picture hooks on the wall. But the bookshelves are a possibility, I could perhaps shove insulation behind them too; combined with sitting quite close possibly that would be sufficient for at least part of the evening. I'll probably look at some kind of optional loudness curve to improve low-volume listening plus a high-pass filter to remove the lowest frequencies and vibrations.
Thanks again,
Kev
Unfortunately the room is rented; I can't even put picture hooks on the wall. But the bookshelves are a possibility, I could perhaps shove insulation behind them too; combined with sitting quite close possibly that would be sufficient for at least part of the evening. I'll probably look at some kind of optional loudness curve to improve low-volume listening plus a high-pass filter to remove the lowest frequencies and vibrations.
Thanks again,
Kev
That is something I'd not thought about, thanks. I shall have to do some more research into it. I wasn't intending dipoles but maybe they would be an option. I might be here for a couple/few years so worth considering.
Absorbers behind the speakers are a good idea whether this is a problem or not, so that's something to think of. Maybe a thick tapestry on the wall.
Bass can be an issue. I'd be looking at placing an accelerometer on the wall surfaces and measuring their movement while you move your speakers around.
Bass can be an issue. I'd be looking at placing an accelerometer on the wall surfaces and measuring their movement while you move your speakers around.
No sub of course.
There are special sheet rocks that block sound very well, but that would be gluing up on the wall and not so good as a renter. Besides, about $100 a sheet.
Basically, apartments are only suitable for background music. Sorry, but that is the reality. If apartment builders had any respect for the tenants, it would not be as big a problem. If it is a condo you own, then that is a viable solution.
Absorbers only block based on their thickness. A 2 inch OC 705 is only good down to about 3K, so won't do much for the sound that goes through the wall. It can do wonders for your imaging and soundstage.
There are special sheet rocks that block sound very well, but that would be gluing up on the wall and not so good as a renter. Besides, about $100 a sheet.
Basically, apartments are only suitable for background music. Sorry, but that is the reality. If apartment builders had any respect for the tenants, it would not be as big a problem. If it is a condo you own, then that is a viable solution.
Absorbers only block based on their thickness. A 2 inch OC 705 is only good down to about 3K, so won't do much for the sound that goes through the wall. It can do wonders for your imaging and soundstage.
Sealed speakers that do bass will be an issue. Bass goes straight through thin walls. Blocking it needs mass and good sealing. Low bass is omnidirectional so putting the speakers next to the neighbours wall wont help at all. Even if you build an internal brick wall sound will transmit in the ceiling space.
As mentioned dipoles with the null aimed at the neighbour are the best speaker design for less leakage but they usually need to be well out from the rear wall so how would that work out?
Do you really need to be building speakers right now? The first thing to point out is the limitations of the small room. Speaker sound stage will be compromised. Nodes will be high within a small room making your sound compromised. Add in the problem with the sound leakage plus low SNR with any noise leaking in and the solution is to put the speakers in your ears or over your ears.
Yes headphones are the answer. For the cost of a DIY 3 way speaker you can buy two or three headphones for swapping around for comfort and different needs. If one headphone is a WH-1000XM4 you can also block out any incoming noise and be free to move around. Headphones will give you the best sound quality. You will also be happier without a grumpy neighbour.
Thanks everyone for the confirmation and alternative thoughts. It does seem to be as I'd feared, really; but at least now I won't waste time/money attempting to do what actually won't work very well.
Yes, i do have some decent headphones, in fact there'll be another project building a new class-A amplifier for those. Based on the outcome of this thread though, I might also look at making/buying a wireless link; for some more casual situations, losing the cable would offer some of the advantages of speakers. It sounds like investing in some different types of headphones might be worthwhile, too - those are good points kazap; under the circumstances I probably should get more seriously into them as a main way to listen.
But I do like speakers, and already have the vast majority of parts from a previous project, so may as well continue with those too. There are times when next-door is out, plus circumstances (and so the room size) may improve at some point. I'll just put even more effort into making them adaptable to different situations, probably including more software DSP type stuff than the fixed hardware I'd initially planned.
Thanks again, all very helpful!
Kev
Yes, i do have some decent headphones, in fact there'll be another project building a new class-A amplifier for those. Based on the outcome of this thread though, I might also look at making/buying a wireless link; for some more casual situations, losing the cable would offer some of the advantages of speakers. It sounds like investing in some different types of headphones might be worthwhile, too - those are good points kazap; under the circumstances I probably should get more seriously into them as a main way to listen.
But I do like speakers, and already have the vast majority of parts from a previous project, so may as well continue with those too. There are times when next-door is out, plus circumstances (and so the room size) may improve at some point. I'll just put even more effort into making them adaptable to different situations, probably including more software DSP type stuff than the fixed hardware I'd initially planned.
Thanks again, all very helpful!
Kev
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"sealed speakers that do bass will be an issue. "
Sorry. Some folks here are short on understanding physics. Sealed, OB, IB, ported no difference.
Frequency and level does.
Sorry. Some folks here are short on understanding physics. Sealed, OB, IB, ported no difference.
Frequency and level does.
Ironically this post shows a lack of understanding. You need to read the OP to understand the context. The OP mentioned putting speakers with no rear ports next to the neighbours walls with the hope the sound would be directed away from the neighbour. The physics of sealed low bass is its not directional. Bass preferentially goes through walls. So firing the speakers away from the walls doesn't help.
You also dont seem to understand the physics of OB bass vs room pressuried bass. Maybe have a read about the dipole null. There are online wave sims that might help you?
Totally disagree on the port as the base is basically omni-directional. Sealed, ported. No difference in a real room. HF "leakage from the port is not a factor.
OB woofers are just plain stupid IHMH. Something pushed by audiophool misinformation. Mid-bass I can see if you have a room that can deal with it. Go look how hard it took Linkwitz to get it to work at all and the massive EQ needed.
OB woofers are just plain stupid IHMH. Something pushed by audiophool misinformation. Mid-bass I can see if you have a room that can deal with it. Go look how hard it took Linkwitz to get it to work at all and the massive EQ needed.