Silly ? My Asko Dishwasher 's Motor run Cap 16uF has died.
Best info ..so far.. is that I needs buy the motor unit to get a factory replacement.
Not gonna happen... given the 500$ asking price.
Joys of buying / owning semi obscure product/brands... my bad.
Sooo a Simple 400v Solen (or facsimile) film cap of 16uF could substitute ?
Best info ..so far.. is that I needs buy the motor unit to get a factory replacement.
Not gonna happen... given the 500$ asking price.
Joys of buying / owning semi obscure product/brands... my bad.
Sooo a Simple 400v Solen (or facsimile) film cap of 16uF could substitute ?
I don't know about shipping or whether they have a Canadian distributor, but motor run caps are pretty inexpensive. Something like this - it's 15uF and the next size up is probably 20uF
ASC Capacitors - X386S-15-10-330 - Capacitor; Metallized Polypropylene; 15; 330 VAC; +⁄ -10% ; Quick Discon - Allied Electronics & Automation
ASC Capacitors - X386S-15-10-330 - Capacitor; Metallized Polypropylene; 15; 330 VAC; +⁄ -10% ; Quick Discon - Allied Electronics & Automation
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You should be able to get a capacitor from a motor repair shop .... or from digi key with correct value for your motor ..... remember that voltage rating can be above actual voltage rating ... but not lower .... and capacitance should remain at nominal value ...
It is not always a problem of dark marks. my prestigious brand washing machine did not start one day, I found the capacitor exploded!
Cost a few money in the specialized house.
As you have been told, the same value, or a little more, only in the voltage, the capacity must be equal.
PS: I thought this was a question about whether you can use motor start capacitors on frequency dividers, since this is an audio forum! In fact, yes, you can, but do not expect the same sound as in a dedicated audio capacitor.
Cost a few money in the specialized house.
As you have been told, the same value, or a little more, only in the voltage, the capacity must be equal.
PS: I thought this was a question about whether you can use motor start capacitors on frequency dividers, since this is an audio forum! In fact, yes, you can, but do not expect the same sound as in a dedicated audio capacitor.
Thank you gentlemen.
Have read posts of those using start/run caps in Audio.
Thought it Ironic ; my wanting to use an Audio cap as a motor run.
So my on hand 400v Solen Will work then 😉
Have read posts of those using start/run caps in Audio.
Thought it Ironic ; my wanting to use an Audio cap as a motor run.
So my on hand 400v Solen Will work then 😉
As a motor run cap deals with mains voltages.
You need to think about what the cap does when it fails.
Most mains rated caps are designed not to pass lethal voltages when they fail.
You need to think about what the cap does when it fails.
Most mains rated caps are designed not to pass lethal voltages when they fail.
Not all caps are rated for continuous application of mains AC voltage. and with a reasonable voltage rating margin above max allowed mains voltage, and with a failure mode that just causes capacitance to reduce over time (by self healing internal leakage paths and having a compliance level to cover that).
So no I wouldn't recommend you use a '400V Solen' as that says nothing about the ability of that cap to perform safely in the application.
So no I wouldn't recommend you use a '400V Solen' as that says nothing about the ability of that cap to perform safely in the application.
Be carefull and think about safety, electrical code and inssurance issue .... a motor run capacitior should be self healing an audio cap is probably not self healing.
If I had the same problem I would use a motor run capacitor not a crossover part .
If I had the same problem I would use a motor run capacitor not a crossover part .
Sometimes my Well pump capacitors die and I get them at an ordinary electric store that sells also pumps.
For example my well pump is running fine now for two or three years with a 30uF capacitor but I believe the original was 20 or 25uF.
I've also seen some small motors using double capacitors, they usually have 3 legs or wires, but I presume it's for some sort of filtering and not for starting.
For example my well pump is running fine now for two or three years with a 30uF capacitor but I believe the original was 20 or 25uF.
I've also seen some small motors using double capacitors, they usually have 3 legs or wires, but I presume it's for some sort of filtering and not for starting.
Your Solen will if it works at all, fail quickly. Motor run capacitors are able to handle high constant current.
My friend google tells me Acklands Grainger has the part and will ship it to you.
My friend google tells me Acklands Grainger has the part and will ship it to you.
I just went through this but with my HVAC and it’s detailed in another thread here somewhere.
You may also have a start capacitor in there which I would replace at the same time if I were you.
Genteq is by GE is considered the highest reliability, at least US made.
Be certain it’s EIA-456 compliant from reputable manufacturer.
All EIA-456 compliant caps should also be Safety rated with symbol on cap.
The critical issue people get confused by is it must be for the rated for AC voltage. Your 400V Solen would be 400V DC, not AC.
I would absolutely not put a non-safety rated DC cap on an AC line. It’s like not wearing your seat belt- you can get away with it sure but do you want to risk it? Would you advise others to not wear one on an Internet forum? Adequate caps that are designed for your needs and properly rated are inexpensive and plentiful. No need to spend astronomic sums on a part from manufacturer.
For around $20 out the door you can get something that will likely be substantially higher quality than what they ship you:
GE Genteq ielektDrol VI GEM-III Capacitor 16uf 540VAC 50/60Hz 60K Hr 97F6919RC | eBay
“EIA-456 provides standards for metalized film dielectric capacitors intended for use with, among other things, ac motors. The reliability test outlined in EIA-456 is a Highly Accelerated Life Test (HALT) in which a set of capacitors is subjected to 125 percent of their rated voltage and 10°C above their rated temperature for 2,000 hours. For example, a capacitor that is rated at 5uf/440 VAC, with an operating temperature of 70°C, is tested at 550 VAC and 80°C for 2,000 hours. This HALT test simulates 60,000 hours of field life. If you estimate 5,000 hours of capacitor operational time per year, a 60,000-hour capacitor could last approximately 12 years in the field. EIA-456 calls for a first-year failure rate of no more than 0.50 percent.”
And
“In February 2010, capacitors from various suppliers (domestic and offshore) were placed side by side and tested against EIA-456 standards. In tests that ran upwards of 2,000 run-hours, the failure rates of lower-quality capacitors was 7-12 times greater than that of higher-quality capacitors - literally, only a savings of a few pennies for a much reduced run time.”
You may also have a start capacitor in there which I would replace at the same time if I were you.
Genteq is by GE is considered the highest reliability, at least US made.
Be certain it’s EIA-456 compliant from reputable manufacturer.
All EIA-456 compliant caps should also be Safety rated with symbol on cap.
The critical issue people get confused by is it must be for the rated for AC voltage. Your 400V Solen would be 400V DC, not AC.
I would absolutely not put a non-safety rated DC cap on an AC line. It’s like not wearing your seat belt- you can get away with it sure but do you want to risk it? Would you advise others to not wear one on an Internet forum? Adequate caps that are designed for your needs and properly rated are inexpensive and plentiful. No need to spend astronomic sums on a part from manufacturer.
For around $20 out the door you can get something that will likely be substantially higher quality than what they ship you:
GE Genteq ielektDrol VI GEM-III Capacitor 16uf 540VAC 50/60Hz 60K Hr 97F6919RC | eBay
“EIA-456 provides standards for metalized film dielectric capacitors intended for use with, among other things, ac motors. The reliability test outlined in EIA-456 is a Highly Accelerated Life Test (HALT) in which a set of capacitors is subjected to 125 percent of their rated voltage and 10°C above their rated temperature for 2,000 hours. For example, a capacitor that is rated at 5uf/440 VAC, with an operating temperature of 70°C, is tested at 550 VAC and 80°C for 2,000 hours. This HALT test simulates 60,000 hours of field life. If you estimate 5,000 hours of capacitor operational time per year, a 60,000-hour capacitor could last approximately 12 years in the field. EIA-456 calls for a first-year failure rate of no more than 0.50 percent.”
And
“In February 2010, capacitors from various suppliers (domestic and offshore) were placed side by side and tested against EIA-456 standards. In tests that ran upwards of 2,000 run-hours, the failure rates of lower-quality capacitors was 7-12 times greater than that of higher-quality capacitors - literally, only a savings of a few pennies for a much reduced run time.”
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I wouldn’t use it.
A couple of issues with that cap:
For a few bucks and a couple days wait for delivery id take the safer option.
Also your Solen cap might be 5-10% or more.
I would not install a motor run capacitor in my home that wasn’t:
Safety rated for the AC voltage you need, ideally with a nice margin.
EIA-456 rated or 30-60k hours.
3% tolerance minimum
Sealed Oil type (environment / vibration / water / temperature resistant)
You may think this is being overly sensitive, but.....
Have you ever had an electrical fire in your home?
Replaced a $500 or $1000 or more appliance or costly compressor or fan because of a cap failure or cap falling out of specification?
Would you want to risk either of these things for $15-$20 and a couple of days of inconvenience while a suitable capacitor is in transit?
The two above scenarios happen much more frequently than you might imagine.
Hi,
Another thing that you should consider is to buy only motor starting capacitors since they have a built in fuse. Is the capacitors shorted the fuse will blow preventing burning the motor..
Another thing that you should consider is to buy only motor starting capacitors since they have a built in fuse. Is the capacitors shorted the fuse will blow preventing burning the motor..
No this is a dual cap, (3 legs) for start and run.
Your motor will meet an early death if you are using a capacitor that may be 30% more than specified value.
It certainly isn’t operating normally in the process.
A higher UF rating will cause:
Lower motor amp draw
Increase motor winding temp
Increase RPM of motor – it also increase motor torque
Lower UF will cause:
Decrease RPM
Increase motor amp draw, - this will also increase motor winding temp
Decrease efficiency
If it’s starting capacitor, it will decrease motor starting torque
I had a cap that was installed in an HVAC by a careless technician that was poor quality and out of tolerance (lower capacitance). Replacing it within 1% along with adding a motor hard start and potential relay shaved something like $40 monthly off my electricity bill in the summertime.
YMMV but point being is it’s not minor.
These symptoms will track closely with how much more than 3-5% the motor run capacitor deviates from the motor manufacturer specification.
On the motor itself it will indicate the percentage allowable deviation.
Some of the suggestions being made here are downright dangerous.
Ed Simon (simon7000) and trobbins were correct in that the Solen is an unwise and unsafe choice.
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He’s asking about motor run, not motor start.
This is NOT SAFE, they are two separate things and NOT interchangeable.
Do NOT use a motor start cap for motor run.
Motor start is NOT rated for continuous AC, there’s a lot more deviation in how they are made and some have embedded circuitry specifically for the start operation.
A good motor start will use a potential relay,
I’m not sure what you mean by an integrated fuse.
The absence of a motor start cap would not blow the motor, just cause a greater sag at start up.
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Double capacitors can be start and run or just doubled up to save space and get slightly higher current.
Yes but in this case they’d both be rated for run use.
They are called Dual Run Capacitors, even.
Wikipedia:
“A dual "run capacitor" supports two electric motors, such as in large air conditioner or heat pump units, with both a fan motor and a compressor motor. It saves space by combining two physical capacitors into one case. The dual capacitor has three terminals labeled "C", "FAN", and "HERM", which stand for the Common, Fan, and HERMetically sealed compressor.[5]”
There is no product for sale that’s labeled Start / Run that I’ve ever seen.
This is a semantics issue I think.
A run cap will technically function as both a start and run cap in the absence of a dedicated start capacitor.
However a dedicated start cap labeled for sale as such can be of lower quality since it’s only in circuit temporarily when combined with a potential relay or device to switch it in and out of a circuit.
Those labeled as dual run caps can therefor be used as start or run, but it’s abnormal to find a 330uf start oil cap for HVAC let’s say.
Perhaps with various smaller motors and pumps this is doable.
Those labeled as start caps should be used only as start.
Start caps generally have a wider tolerance and far lower build quality, but in a higher capacitance package. Some start caps are dry film but most are Electrolytic such as these:
11049 - MARS - Motor Start Capacitors | Galco Industrial Electronics
However you could easily confuse this as a film if you didn’t know given the construction style.
From Wikipedia:
“Start capacitors above 20 µF are always non-polarized aluminium electrolytic capacitors [4] with non solid electrolyte and therefore they are only applicable for the short motor starting time.”
And so start caps should never be used in motor run applications if you value the motor it’s attached to.
Id extend that to say don’t use anything else but an EIA-456 rated oil capacitor with 3% or less tolerance and voltage derated.
There’s no reason to use a substandard cap when good oil caps are very reasonably priced.
Ed you of all people I think would avoid an Electrolytic if you could!
More reading here: Motor capacitor - Wikipedia
These points aren’t really debatable, anyone can search google and see for themselves. Anyhow, bottom line is the OP would be making a rather unwise choice dropping the Solen cap in there. This is about using the proper construction for your purpose.
Dishwashers and audio equipment do not mix well!
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For a good metal Polly run capacitor i’m in the HVAC business very few companies in very few technicians will use this bran I recommend because of the price . But for the technicians where the companies where reliability and durability are the number one key factor this is the company‘s products that we use for run capacitors or start capacitors . In my photo next to my roller I show a start capacitor you would not want to use a start capacitor in place of a run capacitor as for safety reasons was mentioned many times in previous post .
AmRad Engineering, Inc. | A leading manufacturer of motor-run capacitors.
And one other advantage with this companies turbo line of capacitors one capacitor you can jump to taps on top and turn it into many different capacitors have different values .
AmRad Engineering, Inc. | A leading manufacturer of motor-run capacitors.
And one other advantage with this companies turbo line of capacitors one capacitor you can jump to taps on top and turn it into many different capacitors have different values .
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