Thanks for the recommendation. I do have one but left it at home unintentionally, I’m away until next week. I must say though I’m enjoying the old school breadboard for a bit of fun 😉
Hi Bix,
Thank you for posting that. Your 'scope is more accurate than most cheap meters will be.
-Chris
Thank you for posting that. Your 'scope is more accurate than most cheap meters will be.
-Chris
My current scope is the same as OP and I absolutely love the thing. Honestly, at US$647for the model shown above, it is a VERY high value scope. While you can get more features for the price from some of the Chinese OEMs, typically the quality isn't as high. Don't get me wrong, both Siglent and Rigol are making some solid stuff for the hobbyist with features at a performance/$ which are unmet. That being said, normally, both build quality and firmware robustness are much lower than Keysight. Additionally, frequent updates to the Keysight firmware have fixed a few bugs that slipped through and added some additional features (like the free DMM software option). Attached a picture from my analysis of my $20 component tester build, the Keysight was damn easy and enjoyable to use.
As an aside, to some degree this scope IS hackable to the DSO versions by changing a couple of resistors. This gives you the extra (2GSa/s) sample rate, memory depth (1MPt), 70MHz bandwidth, and segmented memory. That being said, the additional trigger functions and changing the frequency bandwidth to higher freq such as 100MHz or higher requires a lot more work (though is possible).
See this thread: EEVblog #978 - Keysight 1000X Hacking - Page 1 for more details.
As an aside, something that I have found funny is that Keysight's own employee Daniel Bergdanoff chimes in from time to time in several of the hacking threads. In this one, he just comments that Keysight did not give any information to Dave about how to hack. In others, he has clarified points about hardware or Keysights position on something, giving historical data about products being hacked, and a few times to give actual insight into weird results that were found via hacking.
As an aside, to some degree this scope IS hackable to the DSO versions by changing a couple of resistors. This gives you the extra (2GSa/s) sample rate, memory depth (1MPt), 70MHz bandwidth, and segmented memory. That being said, the additional trigger functions and changing the frequency bandwidth to higher freq such as 100MHz or higher requires a lot more work (though is possible).
See this thread: EEVblog #978 - Keysight 1000X Hacking - Page 1 for more details.
As an aside, something that I have found funny is that Keysight's own employee Daniel Bergdanoff chimes in from time to time in several of the hacking threads. In this one, he just comments that Keysight did not give any information to Dave about how to hack. In others, he has clarified points about hardware or Keysights position on something, giving historical data about products being hacked, and a few times to give actual insight into weird results that were found via hacking.
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Don't compute 4-digit precision before you work it out on two thumbs. It is FAR too easy to slip a decimal place. They pile up under both sides of your desk.
Your drawing has a 100X error. chip_mk has already called it out, but here's my fumbled attempt to confirm your calculations (attached). 2-thumb figuring gives "about 53K", NOT "5979K"... error of 100. Using more fingers I like "60K" better.
The input overload will be very-nearly the drop in Re, unless Rc swing bottoms the transistor first. With Re a not-small part of Rc, 4.5V is not the optimum center point.
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Congrats
Thanks very much for taking time to look over my attempt at calculating the circuit posted. I appreciate your knowledge of what is still new territory for me.
I also realise I have strayed from my original post and rather than discussing my new DSO I’m also getting lessons in circuit calculating.
Rather than continuing off topic I’ll leave this thread to the Keysight EDUX1002G
And start another thread based around basic amplifier stage calculating for beginners.
I’ll go do some work on the common emitter circuit then open a new thread, titled “basic amplifier stage calculating for beginners” If yourself and or any others members are interested in offering your assistance that would be great.
Thanks again
Sorry for asking a dumb question, but having zero experience with digital scopes (and minimal for analog ones), would the DSOX1102G provide a meaningful improvement over the EDUX1002G for analog amplifier/preamp work (viewing output for clipping, oscillation, etc)?
That's probably a question for a new thread but my quick answer would be that the cheaper model would be more than adequate for what you mention. In other words fine for general audio work and servicing.
If you were working with RF circuits and designing with high speed logic then something better than both those would be needed.
If you were working with RF circuits and designing with high speed logic then something better than both those would be needed.
It's a better CRO, but really just in terms of speed (70 MHz, 2Gsps vs 50 MHz, 1Gsps). For audio work they look identical - even my worst audio amps don't do anything interesting beyond 50 MHz. I'd suggest just buying the cheaper one.
Hi Dennis,
From long experience with HP / Agilent / Keysight, their products tend to be superior to "equivalents" from other manufacturers. The analog section before the converters will have wider bandwidth and the instrument will be more stable. In use, you would find that the Keysight 'scope stays in tolerance for calibration much longer than other comparable instruments.
I think the fact that their scopes can be upgraded by software licenses for more things is telling, meaning you can have the 'scope grow with you as you gain more experience. Then there is the software that they offer free to help you save wave forms and machine states (the setup of the controls for a special measurement for example). It also allows you to control the instrument from your computer.
I think the Keysight products represent great value especially if you look at long term ownership. My advise for anyone is that you should spend as much money as you can on your oscilloscope and your bench meter. These two items will cover 90% of your use on a bench. Same for your soldering station within reason (there are very good ones for $100 US and less).
Are you going to work with microcontrollers in your projects? If so, a later addtion of serial bus decoding for SPI and I^2C might be helpful. Some of these oscilloscopes can do serial bus decoding. So make sure your purchase can be upgraded to have this feature, or have it already.
Bandwidth. The rule of thumb is to buy bandwidth 5 X over the maximum frequency you expect to work with. This is to be able to capture the true waveform rather than miss all the details. For example, a 60 MHz square wave will look like a sine wave on a 60 MHz scope. 4 X the frequency is a bare minimum rule of thumb.
I hope that helps some.
-Chris
From long experience with HP / Agilent / Keysight, their products tend to be superior to "equivalents" from other manufacturers. The analog section before the converters will have wider bandwidth and the instrument will be more stable. In use, you would find that the Keysight 'scope stays in tolerance for calibration much longer than other comparable instruments.
I think the fact that their scopes can be upgraded by software licenses for more things is telling, meaning you can have the 'scope grow with you as you gain more experience. Then there is the software that they offer free to help you save wave forms and machine states (the setup of the controls for a special measurement for example). It also allows you to control the instrument from your computer.
I think the Keysight products represent great value especially if you look at long term ownership. My advise for anyone is that you should spend as much money as you can on your oscilloscope and your bench meter. These two items will cover 90% of your use on a bench. Same for your soldering station within reason (there are very good ones for $100 US and less).
Are you going to work with microcontrollers in your projects? If so, a later addtion of serial bus decoding for SPI and I^2C might be helpful. Some of these oscilloscopes can do serial bus decoding. So make sure your purchase can be upgraded to have this feature, or have it already.
Bandwidth. The rule of thumb is to buy bandwidth 5 X over the maximum frequency you expect to work with. This is to be able to capture the true waveform rather than miss all the details. For example, a 60 MHz square wave will look like a sine wave on a 60 MHz scope. 4 X the frequency is a bare minimum rule of thumb.
I hope that helps some.
-Chris
Some of the best audio opamps do... 😉 The UGBW of the LME49710, for example is 55 MHz. The LME49600 reaches nearly 200 MHz and is quite capable of amplifying FM radio, broadcast TV signals, etc. I found my 2.9 GHz spectrum analyzer quite handy during the development of my HP-1 headphone amp, which is based on the LME49600. That said, it's the only time I've had to do that. I'm just saying that audio amps do occasionally misbehave during prototyping and being able to measure what's going is handy.
+1
Tom
Hi Suzy,
-Chris
I can't disagree with your statement except to add to what Tom said. Individual components or sections of circuits really can misbehave. You can get by with a 20 MHz analog scope in most cases, but that means for digital you need (20 MHz * 5 = 100 MHz). It's easier to get that now than to have to upgrade later. This instrument will probably be in use for the next 15 ~ 20 years. I've bought new equipment that I've used much longer than that. So plan for down the road, not just here and now.
-Chris
An important distinction- a traditional (as in obsolete) analog scope with CRT will respond well beyond its maximum listed bandwidth with useful visual information. A digital scope may show something (its called undersampling when intentional) but its not going to make any sense. The better scopes are just easier to use and more likely to give useful info. My first test on any digital scope is the autoset to see if I get something that's meaningful. Its amazing how many different results this yields on an audio band waveform with different scopes.
I have 5 or 6 analog scopes, one digital (Tek THS720) and several USB scopes. I find for troubleshooting an analog scope is the quickest. I tend to buy those scopes with the long service life well down their life expectancy.. My 7854 was made in the late 1980's meaning its approaching 30 years now. New it was $25K+. buying down the curve I got it almost 20 years ago for $300. So if it goes up in smoke tomorrow that's $15/ yr. Quite a good value, and its among the most expensive in my collection.
However the next gen digital scopes I would avoid since they are full of unobtanium or (even more annoying) based on obsolete Windows OS's and motherboards.
I'm looking at the latest gen small digital scopes as well because I want my space back. However my $300 budget makes that less promising.
I have 5 or 6 analog scopes, one digital (Tek THS720) and several USB scopes. I find for troubleshooting an analog scope is the quickest. I tend to buy those scopes with the long service life well down their life expectancy.. My 7854 was made in the late 1980's meaning its approaching 30 years now. New it was $25K+. buying down the curve I got it almost 20 years ago for $300. So if it goes up in smoke tomorrow that's $15/ yr. Quite a good value, and its among the most expensive in my collection.
However the next gen digital scopes I would avoid since they are full of unobtanium or (even more annoying) based on obsolete Windows OS's and motherboards.
I'm looking at the latest gen small digital scopes as well because I want my space back. However my $300 budget makes that less promising.
Hi Demian,
I fear with the later 'scopes, that 30 year lifespan won't be the average anymore. I really full heartedly agree with you on the scopes that run Windows. I think a few run Linux and the rest are running microcontrollers like the analog scopes we know and love. No OS as most of us would be used to, just machine code.
As for your budget, from what I've seen, you're going to have to spend more. I got a screaming deal on my Agilent 54642D. About $1,000 for a scope that was $20K new and still commanded close to $10K when I got it. Looking at the newer digital scopes and how far they have come is amazing. Mine will show an eye pattern, but an analogue scope blows it away. The new ones would allow me to retire the 2465B I have (which is ill now).
-Chris
I fear with the later 'scopes, that 30 year lifespan won't be the average anymore. I really full heartedly agree with you on the scopes that run Windows. I think a few run Linux and the rest are running microcontrollers like the analog scopes we know and love. No OS as most of us would be used to, just machine code.
As for your budget, from what I've seen, you're going to have to spend more. I got a screaming deal on my Agilent 54642D. About $1,000 for a scope that was $20K new and still commanded close to $10K when I got it. Looking at the newer digital scopes and how far they have come is amazing. Mine will show an eye pattern, but an analogue scope blows it away. The new ones would allow me to retire the 2465B I have (which is ill now).
-Chris
Are you doing anything special to safely interface to (presumably) a 50 ohm input spectrum analyzer that probably has a max input of something like +30 dBm? Attenuators and/or DC block just in case?
I checked the output of the amp with a scope first (400 MHz TEK2465B). I saw "noise" but wasn't convinced it was noise. It was pretty low in amplitude (low enough not to fry the spec an) so I added a DC blocking cap and hooked it up. I also made sure the input to the amp was grounded.
Throwing in a couple of SMA attenuators and a DCB with my next Mouser order is probably a good idea, though.
Ha, ha. Yeah... No!! My first manager at National was fuming mad one morning. Overnight the oscilloscope had got infected with a virus. Awesome! That won't happen on an analog scope.
I would shy away from anything that runs Windoze, linux, or any other mainstream OS. They take forever to boot. After a few years, the OS is no longer supported and you have a virus hazard on your hands. Gimme some proprietary solution any day.
Tom
How would you rate this one compared to a Rigol DS-1074z? When I was in the market for a scope, I did some research and went on eevblog asking for some comments, about anyone placed the Rigol above this one due to much greater memory depth, 4 channels, better rise time and hackability (mine is hacked) that seems to boost the bandwith to 167Mhz or so. Almost bought one of these Keysight scopes back then. Fan`s quite noisy on my Rigol, however.
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