Here also public smoking seems to have reduced, smokes are expensive now...
Even bidi (or biri) has gone from 3 to 20+ for 24.
A bidi is a pinch of tobacco rolled inside a small leaf, seems to be stronger than most cigarettes.
PVC is about 1 quid a kilo, seems stupid to recycle as records.
Even compounded PVC will be 1.20 quid or so.
And it degrades every time it is melted, more than other plastics, so it is particularly bad to recycle as records.
I do not expect LP to weigh more than 100 grams, which is only 15 p or so, 20 cents in US money.
Even bidi (or biri) has gone from 3 to 20+ for 24.
A bidi is a pinch of tobacco rolled inside a small leaf, seems to be stronger than most cigarettes.
PVC is about 1 quid a kilo, seems stupid to recycle as records.
Even compounded PVC will be 1.20 quid or so.
And it degrades every time it is melted, more than other plastics, so it is particularly bad to recycle as records.
I do not expect LP to weigh more than 100 grams, which is only 15 p or so, 20 cents in US money.
As a lifelong non-smoker, it is the absence of cigarette smoke stink that I welcome, both live and listening at home. A large part of my LP collection is from used sources and occasionally I have to cull an LP because the cigarette smell from the outer sleeve, was unbearable. The LP would clean up ok, but the sleeve is beyond treatment.
Wipe the sleeve quickly with iso alcohol, and expose to shaded sunlight, direct might cause fading.
Will reduce the smell.
I stopped in 2018, and was never a heavy smoker...
Will reduce the smell.
I stopped in 2018, and was never a heavy smoker...
" Recycling Vinyl
The idea of recycling vinyl isn’t new. Labels like Chicago’s TRAX used recycled vinyl to press some of their 1980s releases, but the results were not always well received. Vinyl records are made from (PVC) pellets, which are melted and pressed into disc form. The material’s chemical and molecular attributes have a huge impact on the audible quality of music playback, and a disc made with low-grade or impure raw materials will sound terrible.
Andrew Grant of Brooklyn’s Halcyon record shop explains, “we work with the different pressing plants, and we give them vinyl, varying from used to new but unsold, and they recycle that vinyl by punching out the center and grinding it up to make new records.”
Making Music Sustainable. How To Solve The Vinyl Industry’s… | by Barbie Bertisch | Novation // Notes | Medium
The idea of recycling vinyl isn’t new. Labels like Chicago’s TRAX used recycled vinyl to press some of their 1980s releases, but the results were not always well received. Vinyl records are made from (PVC) pellets, which are melted and pressed into disc form. The material’s chemical and molecular attributes have a huge impact on the audible quality of music playback, and a disc made with low-grade or impure raw materials will sound terrible.
Andrew Grant of Brooklyn’s Halcyon record shop explains, “we work with the different pressing plants, and we give them vinyl, varying from used to new but unsold, and they recycle that vinyl by punching out the center and grinding it up to make new records.”
Making Music Sustainable. How To Solve The Vinyl Industry’s… | by Barbie Bertisch | Novation // Notes | Medium
" The key factor here is the condition of the records being recycled: current recycling methods require spotless and clean raw material in order for the recycled product to be as pure as possible. Simply put, your old, beat up dollar-bin finds may not be suitable for recycling, and manufacturing plants may not want anything to do with them! And this major stumbling block rules out a huge proportion of the unwanted vinyl floating around in people’s garages, attics and bottom shelves of record collections."
Making Music Sustainable. How To Solve The Vinyl Industry’s… | by Barbie Bertisch | Novation // Notes | Medium
The last 3 posts cover a lot I might have added.
The market is small, shipment is more expensive than the actual manufacturing cost, also as digital distribution increases, even CD and DVD plants are closing down.
Here some movies are sold on USB stick.
The discussion was about cleaning OLD records, which is a different game from recycling plant reject vinyl within the plant, not contaminated scrap returned from outside.
The main issue with PVC is that it can be used only when compounded for the most part, and everybody has their own recipe. That makes third party recycling difficult, particularly for high quality items like records.
The big source for PVC may be insulation used in cable, lots is generated.
You are looking at baby teethers, footwear, to sewage pipes.
And when you see old plastic at the scrap center, that is a lot different from plant waste.
One article says 14.3 million LPs sold in 2018. Please compare to the figures for digital album downloads worldwide.
That is the future, I think.
The market is small, shipment is more expensive than the actual manufacturing cost, also as digital distribution increases, even CD and DVD plants are closing down.
Here some movies are sold on USB stick.
The discussion was about cleaning OLD records, which is a different game from recycling plant reject vinyl within the plant, not contaminated scrap returned from outside.
The main issue with PVC is that it can be used only when compounded for the most part, and everybody has their own recipe. That makes third party recycling difficult, particularly for high quality items like records.
The big source for PVC may be insulation used in cable, lots is generated.
You are looking at baby teethers, footwear, to sewage pipes.
And when you see old plastic at the scrap center, that is a lot different from plant waste.
One article says 14.3 million LPs sold in 2018. Please compare to the figures for digital album downloads worldwide.
That is the future, I think.
I am a Graduate Mechanical Engineer, plastic industry since 1992, I speak with some knowledge of the matter.
Europeans pay Indians and Chinese to make dangerous chemicals which are not allowed to be produced there as they are considered dangerous for Mother Nature.
And they willingly pay more than the price for new material to buy recycled scrap.
Not everybody pays more for scrap than for new material.
A different thought process here.
Europeans pay Indians and Chinese to make dangerous chemicals which are not allowed to be produced there as they are considered dangerous for Mother Nature.
And they willingly pay more than the price for new material to buy recycled scrap.
Not everybody pays more for scrap than for new material.
A different thought process here.
You said what I checked above.
Based on my experience on the subject, I mentioned that I believed the noises were due to recycled vinyl. Now I confirm it, after finding the information that I made available to you and others, I am sure that many would have been interested.
I didn't mean to deflect the thread, but you did it by questioning me, regarding recycling as stupid.
So, I looked for information because in your words it was understood that you denied that recycled vinyl was used.
Now you say that the thread is about OLD vinyls, -no, no, it's about the OP cleaning method -but you elaborate on your enabling title, etc. ?
There's been talk of record labels here, well my noisy vinyls date back to the '70s and Phillips was pressing recycled vinyl here, and the sound was awful. It was clearly the worst label, CBS was acceptable, Deutsche Gramophon awful like Phillips, which is understood because it was a Phillips subsidiary.
I know that the clicks and pops were due to the quality of the PVC because a friend who came back from Europe with the same LP by the same artist, bought there, had an immaculate sound.
Based on my experience on the subject, I mentioned that I believed the noises were due to recycled vinyl. Now I confirm it, after finding the information that I made available to you and others, I am sure that many would have been interested.
I didn't mean to deflect the thread, but you did it by questioning me, regarding recycling as stupid.
So, I looked for information because in your words it was understood that you denied that recycled vinyl was used.
Now you say that the thread is about OLD vinyls, -no, no, it's about the OP cleaning method -but you elaborate on your enabling title, etc. ?
There's been talk of record labels here, well my noisy vinyls date back to the '70s and Phillips was pressing recycled vinyl here, and the sound was awful. It was clearly the worst label, CBS was acceptable, Deutsche Gramophon awful like Phillips, which is understood because it was a Phillips subsidiary.
I know that the clicks and pops were due to the quality of the PVC because a friend who came back from Europe with the same LP by the same artist, bought there, had an immaculate sound.
You are paying much more than the actual production cost of a record.
Records are compression molded it seems, and the excess trimmed off.
The excess material is called plant waste or plant rejection, and that is the cleanest source for recycling.
Every time you melt any thermoplastic material it degrades, and the number of times it is melted is called its heat history.
PVC degrades faster, and gives off tiny amounts of Hydro chloric acid every time it is melted, and you have also to refresh the plasticiser and other chemicals added ...that actually is tougher than doing a new batch, the scrap PVC has to be tested before compounding again, or adding a small quantity to the new batch.
So recycling plant waste is comparatively easier, you know what you are dealing with.
On the other hand, this scrap sells for about 70% of the new material price, so little if any saving is achieved, and the quality suffers.
For a few pennies the customer is irritated and later comes to know they were cheated.
Hardly a reputable thing to do.
These chemicals migrate and decompose in PVC, so that is the reason I said cleaning old PVC is a little tricky.
I am experienced in plastic molding, and in plastic processing PVC by itself is a vast field, due to the variety of grades and applications.
It is my view that to spend more than raw material cost in order to recycle old material is stupid.
Scrap @ 70% + testing + compounding + handling = More or about new material price.
Also bear in mind that this plant waste is generally less than a few months old, and I am trying to prevent damage to decades old plastic.
Records are compression molded it seems, and the excess trimmed off.
The excess material is called plant waste or plant rejection, and that is the cleanest source for recycling.
Every time you melt any thermoplastic material it degrades, and the number of times it is melted is called its heat history.
PVC degrades faster, and gives off tiny amounts of Hydro chloric acid every time it is melted, and you have also to refresh the plasticiser and other chemicals added ...that actually is tougher than doing a new batch, the scrap PVC has to be tested before compounding again, or adding a small quantity to the new batch.
So recycling plant waste is comparatively easier, you know what you are dealing with.
On the other hand, this scrap sells for about 70% of the new material price, so little if any saving is achieved, and the quality suffers.
For a few pennies the customer is irritated and later comes to know they were cheated.
Hardly a reputable thing to do.
These chemicals migrate and decompose in PVC, so that is the reason I said cleaning old PVC is a little tricky.
I am experienced in plastic molding, and in plastic processing PVC by itself is a vast field, due to the variety of grades and applications.
It is my view that to spend more than raw material cost in order to recycle old material is stupid.
Scrap @ 70% + testing + compounding + handling = More or about new material price.
Also bear in mind that this plant waste is generally less than a few months old, and I am trying to prevent damage to decades old plastic.
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You are in Argentina, and you say a friend got LP from Europe which were good quality.
Please clarify:
1. Same equipment was used to play both records?
2. The records you found noisy were manufactured in which country?
Please clarify:
1. Same equipment was used to play both records?
2. The records you found noisy were manufactured in which country?
Not sure. I suspect there are other factors that're as important as pristine/recycled vinyl.
Dust and dirt ingress onto the faces of the moulds or into the vinyl feed stock.
Worn moulds being used after they should have been replaced.
Too little/too much mould release agent.
Poor handling of vinyl after pressing.
Crap in the inner sleeves.
How well the pressing plant was run would be a big determining factor in the quality of pressings and I don't suppose many of the record companies really gave a stuff about quality as long as the discs popped out at the lowest possible price...
What irks me is that even the really well known bands didn't seem to worry too much if their vinyl was rubbish...
Dust and dirt ingress onto the faces of the moulds or into the vinyl feed stock.
Worn moulds being used after they should have been replaced.
Too little/too much mould release agent.
Poor handling of vinyl after pressing.
Crap in the inner sleeves.
How well the pressing plant was run would be a big determining factor in the quality of pressings and I don't suppose many of the record companies really gave a stuff about quality as long as the discs popped out at the lowest possible price...
What irks me is that even the really well known bands didn't seem to worry too much if their vinyl was rubbish...
If you like it , what's the problem? Go for it! I'm not saying 'nay' but I do have an opinion, which I do really believe is in your interest to consider if you happen to have a cart that cost more than you like to pay very often.
Here goes,
Just thinking about it, the trouble I have with the technique is that where the turntable/arm/cart setup is properly done, stylus wear is in large part caused by abrasive action of the debris on the record. When cart manufacturers like Shure say this, I have some trust that they're not lying. So while this technique may in fact be producing cleaning results, it's likely your stylus is paying for it.
In other words, It might look like a good deal after a record or two but my guess is it will speed the wear on your stylus , and if it's a good cart, then is an expensive way to do it.
Added to that is also the issue that damaged stylii are one thing responsible for record wear and if you have old discs that are not being reproduced and are therefore dear , then it's something to consider.
I'd rather get all the grit out so the stylus has a nice clean ride.
I've actually been using a new mix, per Neil Antin's advice. This is 50% alcohol, 25% distilled white vinegar, and 25% distilled water. This actually works on some of the scale introduced by people using tap water to wash their records, as well as those that used tap water to refill their empty Discwasher bottles.
I've also modified the technique a bit. So after treatment with the new mix, after it has evaporated, I can see the surface of the record looks pretty disgusting. I use uncut alcohol on one of those cheap black velvet brushes to lightly clean the surface of the album. I then use the paint pad to reapply the 50/25/25 mix and turn it upside down again.
I repeat that process until the 50//25/25 upside-down process isn't leaving the surface of the vinyl so filthy. At that point, one more final alcohol cleanup of the surface and the record is pretty amazingly clean.
But why do you let the dissolved dirt dry onto the record (and yes in the grooves) again? Wouldn't it better to position the disc vertically, so that the mixture could flow down by gravity and bring all debris with it? Even then there will be some residue to be removed.
The fluids evaporate too quickly to be able to make it to the bottom of an album placed vertically, so stuff would migrate to the adjacent section of the groove.
Think of cleaning a record and leaving it horizontally to dry. We all know that the residue would be left at the groove bottom.
By inverting the album, we're trying to get the residue to be left at the top of the groove, and the land.
The method you have proposed, has it totally eliminated the clicks?
In other words, does a popping disc become totally silent? Can you assure it ?
I have another question here:
What about tiny insects like mites, for example? These have the peculiarity of adhering with their extremities to the grooves, so it seems unlikely that they will fall due to the action of gravity.
I once discovered one of them (dead and dry already, I imagine I was resting in peace in the groove a long time ago) on my Pink Floyd DSOTM LP, right at the beginning of the first track, when the cash registers are ringing.
I soaked that section - with the dead mite - with a cleaning solution for a few days, and then ran a soft bristle brush over the insect. It did not come off. So I tried with a brush used to clean the needles, (harder) it didn't work out either.
Finally with a wooden toothpick I was able to detach it.
The groove was irreversibly damaged.
In other words, does a popping disc become totally silent? Can you assure it ?
I have another question here:
What about tiny insects like mites, for example? These have the peculiarity of adhering with their extremities to the grooves, so it seems unlikely that they will fall due to the action of gravity.
I once discovered one of them (dead and dry already, I imagine I was resting in peace in the groove a long time ago) on my Pink Floyd DSOTM LP, right at the beginning of the first track, when the cash registers are ringing.
I soaked that section - with the dead mite - with a cleaning solution for a few days, and then ran a soft bristle brush over the insect. It did not come off. So I tried with a brush used to clean the needles, (harder) it didn't work out either.
Finally with a wooden toothpick I was able to detach it.
The groove was irreversibly damaged.
Attachments
It really depends on the origin of the pop/tick, what is actually in the groove.
I've often thought some of the used albums I accumulated had mites or residue from them. In these cases I think after a couple of cleans with alcohol before play, and then shelving the album for weeks or months, when I go back to it and clean/play it again, it is often substantially quieter. Like the alcohol dried out the residue from the mite and killed anything still there and months later, a final alcohol cleaning a play got the groove clean.
😉
That's what I thought, I shouldn't have rushed it, and let the liquid work for a long time .....
But I am a very anxious person!
That's what I thought, I shouldn't have rushed it, and let the liquid work for a long time .....
But I am a very anxious person!