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I was surprised too, but pleasantly so. It says that the subjective sound is their starting point. Given all the possible different amplifier topologies where would you start? Many different topologies are capable of being engineered on a bench until their measured performance is 'hi fi'. But at the end you want a great sound and in some cases a 'house sound' and for that you are either lucky or you start with ideas that you have previously found to work well.
I was testing input cap.s as elect.types, polyester, tantal vb. I want to write here my final choise is 10uf tantal//100nf polyester. Test it easy.
He says the bench measurement invariably deteriorates after they have made listening adjustments. That implies their bench measurement isn’t good enough.
I was at the Bristol show in 2014 or so when Naim showed the Statement amps. Their demo with big Focal speakers was loud and somehow breathtaking - but ultimately lifeless. Very disappointing. I was nevertheless fascinated by the innards of the Statement shown there, and had the chance to talk to Mr. Sells in person. I guess his main ambition was to make such a "statement" with his gigantic amplifier (which uses custom-made transistors etc) but he did not really seem to be devoted to any kind of Naim sound. Furthermore, I had the impression that he was not interested in that at all. - I later walked to other rooms again, which provided much better and more musical sound.
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I've seen Naim factory tours videos. I'm with the impression that they are strictly engineering company. They have good equipment, nothing to make me say "wow", but still everything needed for quality electronic manufacturing. It seems that the factory floor is organized like a typical factory floor, with processes and procedures. There is not much left for experimenting or easy changes, from my experience in similar environment. Engineering practices are what defines the company.
So, I think all this stuff with the listening and fine tuning by ear is just BS for audiophile buyers. Same impression I had from a recent video from the Audio Research factory. Another typical manufacturing floor. Just like Naim's, kind of modest by the standards of other branches of electronics. At the end of the video we were told that each and every amp that leaves the assembly line goes to a system for listening tests by the owner/manager in order to confirm that it sounds as supposed... "Yeah, right!", I thought... It must be a manager with a lot of free time and desire to switch gear
And how much time do they spend with each amp? 30 minutes until the next one is out of the line?
I think that audio companies feel obliged to say stuff like that to maintain sales, considering that 90% of their buyers have no idea about technical parameters. Actually most of these same buyers hear what they they were told they hear by dealers, magazines, youtube, and price paid... I've been surprised many times by people with expensive systems that sound average.
I think the "magic" is something that the marketing department creates to make the product "desirable". IMO the special sound that is discussed here is achievable only by a small company or individuals who have the time, equipment, passion, patience and lack of pressure to sell. Sound to me more like a DIYer's profile than business.
So, I think all this stuff with the listening and fine tuning by ear is just BS for audiophile buyers. Same impression I had from a recent video from the Audio Research factory. Another typical manufacturing floor. Just like Naim's, kind of modest by the standards of other branches of electronics. At the end of the video we were told that each and every amp that leaves the assembly line goes to a system for listening tests by the owner/manager in order to confirm that it sounds as supposed... "Yeah, right!", I thought... It must be a manager with a lot of free time and desire to switch gear
And how much time do they spend with each amp? 30 minutes until the next one is out of the line?I think that audio companies feel obliged to say stuff like that to maintain sales, considering that 90% of their buyers have no idea about technical parameters. Actually most of these same buyers hear what they they were told they hear by dealers, magazines, youtube, and price paid... I've been surprised many times by people with expensive systems that sound average.
I think the "magic" is something that the marketing department creates to make the product "desirable". IMO the special sound that is discussed here is achievable only by a small company or individuals who have the time, equipment, passion, patience and lack of pressure to sell. Sound to me more like a DIYer's profile than business.
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I gather Sells was recruited about 1 year after JV died. Sell's CV isn't stellar by any means. I wonder whether Sells was made "Technical Director of Electronics" after the 2011 Focal merger? Mergers tend to shuffle up the directors.
The last time I heard a Focal/Naim system was a few years ago in Bristol UK. It didn't sound quite right to my ears. A lot of crescendo but not as emotionally engaging as the old NAP250/Linn combos. Focal is a marketing heavyweight and Naim's brand has benefitted.
i know from speaking to an insider that the first prototypes of The Statement were not up to snuff. They had to do a lot of back-pedaling and tweaking. This is consistent with the theory that Sells never had the original recipe, or there wasn't one, or much of one. Or perhaps marketing pressure changed their sonic goals.
I believe I know Naim's recipe. The evidence suggests I know significantly more than Naim does. I designed and built my own amp and I haven't heard a better one yet. Not Naim, not Krell, not Lamm and definitely not the switch mode ones. I also know how to accurately measure sound quality. I actually applied for a position at Naim many years ago. I phoned up Roy George to explain my idea for revolutionizing their business but he wasn't interested. I also contacted PS Audio as a result of their founder's blog where he gushed on about how essential new ideas are; after a few tepid exchanges I gave up. I also had a similar experience with the founder of Roksan who I happened to know from college. So my conclusion is that these companies are very parochial and "not invented here" is the pervasive culture.
The last time I heard a Focal/Naim system was a few years ago in Bristol UK. It didn't sound quite right to my ears. A lot of crescendo but not as emotionally engaging as the old NAP250/Linn combos. Focal is a marketing heavyweight and Naim's brand has benefitted.
i know from speaking to an insider that the first prototypes of The Statement were not up to snuff. They had to do a lot of back-pedaling and tweaking. This is consistent with the theory that Sells never had the original recipe, or there wasn't one, or much of one. Or perhaps marketing pressure changed their sonic goals.
I believe I know Naim's recipe. The evidence suggests I know significantly more than Naim does. I designed and built my own amp and I haven't heard a better one yet. Not Naim, not Krell, not Lamm and definitely not the switch mode ones. I also know how to accurately measure sound quality. I actually applied for a position at Naim many years ago. I phoned up Roy George to explain my idea for revolutionizing their business but he wasn't interested. I also contacted PS Audio as a result of their founder's blog where he gushed on about how essential new ideas are; after a few tepid exchanges I gave up. I also had a similar experience with the founder of Roksan who I happened to know from college. So my conclusion is that these companies are very parochial and "not invented here" is the pervasive culture.
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Every video promo I've seen which features consumer audio manufacturing, has focused on the company's engineering, assembly line, product consistency and reliability as being the best in the business etc. but these aren't the issues that stir a prospective customer to open their wallet. I'd say only management or shareholders would thrill to the sound of machinery trimming castings or printers spitting out BOMs and schematics.
Linn Audio, once the marketing partner of Naim, has this recent video ( LinnCast: Factory Tour - YouTube ) that devotes most of its content to their automated manufacturing plant and processes, robot transport system and everything else that works cheaper than people. I have a feeling that if Naim were to release a video with a similar theme, it wouldn't do them any favours - more likely turn them away. I think their prospective and existing customers still hope to see the human touch and judgement somewhere critical to their listening experience. At £1,000-8,000 for a mostly empty box of consumer electronics, it's a reasonable expectation.
Linn Audio, once the marketing partner of Naim, has this recent video ( LinnCast: Factory Tour - YouTube ) that devotes most of its content to their automated manufacturing plant and processes, robot transport system and everything else that works cheaper than people. I have a feeling that if Naim were to release a video with a similar theme, it wouldn't do them any favours - more likely turn them away. I think their prospective and existing customers still hope to see the human touch and judgement somewhere critical to their listening experience. At £1,000-8,000 for a mostly empty box of consumer electronics, it's a reasonable expectation.
Now I think I understand where you've been coming from. I wouldn't expect to see further details of your own design but you might give us some of the general specs to understand what you were aiming at.
And I though I knew something about British hi-fi!... To me Linn has always been a niche company, known mostly for turntables and some good loudspeakers in the past, and Naim - the big successful hi-end brand... I just learnt that Linn is actually much bigger, better equipped business.
The focus is again mostly on the capabilities. If I've just discovered the company for the first time I wouldn't have understood what makes them different from Bose or Sony...
If you put a coil, the transistor and a diode(gyrator) with some dynamical load next to the amplifier boards, the frequency ( of choice), than what will happen to amplifier board (semiconductors)? Will some of the semiconductor properties change during operation ? Maybe some currents will choose different path and a new game level is archieved.
Its like with microwave heater... put a cold soup in it and its ready and delicious
And last but not least, naim transformer... i never saw a naim amplifier in real life... but does the aluminum, copper or some mixed alloy change harmonics ?
Can you build in some oscillation in the transformer ?
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Harmonics, this amplifier loves "certain" type of harmonics from the "POWER SUPPLY" diodes or "REGULATOR BOARDS".
I call them "MEOW" harmonics.... its like a cat "MEOWING"... you have to configure powersupply and naim the way that "TWO MEOWS" become one and i think than amplifier will go crazy.
Just now i have listened alot to my naim and i switched to sony... i must say RX55 is like a good gentlemen, pwn everyone that is not tuned properly.
And i love RX55 harmonics profile. ! Its bright and full of energy.
But naim can be made FRONT-END SUPER TRANSPARENT with muscles... it needs knowledge and skills.
NAIM CAN BE THE TERMINATOR 1 and even 2
BUT Sony costs only 200euro so...go figure.
Its like with microwave heater... put a cold soup in it and its ready and delicious
And last but not least, naim transformer... i never saw a naim amplifier in real life... but does the aluminum, copper or some mixed alloy change harmonics ?
Can you build in some oscillation in the transformer ?
And last:
Harmonics, this amplifier loves "certain" type of harmonics from the "POWER SUPPLY" diodes or "REGULATOR BOARDS".
I call them "MEOW" harmonics.... its like a cat "MEOWING"... you have to configure powersupply and naim the way that "TWO MEOWS" become one and i think than amplifier will go crazy.
Just now i have listened alot to my naim and i switched to sony... i must say RX55 is like a good gentlemen, pwn everyone that is not tuned properly.
And i love RX55 harmonics profile. ! Its bright and full of energy.
But naim can be made FRONT-END SUPER TRANSPARENT with muscles... it needs knowledge and skills.
NAIM CAN BE THE TERMINATOR 1 and even 2
BUT Sony costs only 200euro so...go figure.
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Welcome back, rensli, I read your previous post as declaring that you were leaving the forum permanently....no matter, here you are
Concerning mechanical vibration, electronic circuits on rigid PCBs with obsolete, through-hole mounted components are generally sensitive to vibration because there is the opportunity for leads, solder joints and component structures to vibrate sympathetically, hence modulating the signal. Naim even featured this little problem in a recent Video.
If you look inside any of the up-market models from this century, you notice the PCBs are rubber-mounted to minimise the effect of vibration (i.e. acoustic coupling) between the electronics and the sound output from the speakers + any environmental noise and vibration. As recent models are mostly SMT now, there may not be much effect to be concerned about but once set in the groove of tradition, the rubber mountings will probably stay, just to remind users of how much they care about your precious sound
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I should have added that electromagnetic coupling, as you propose, may have a similar effect but it would need to have low Q (wideband) and high sensitivity (hence noisy) to work over the full audio bandwidth. That would likely be better done with an effects box (a combination of electronic distortion generators and filters to directly modulate the signal) if you want to play with such effects.
A dedicated thread would be appropriate; I’ll stick to providing oblique hints about Naim in this one. My process has been to trust my hearing and not to trust expert theory, even in the face of overwhelming opposition; this is my nature. It’s a very laborious position to maintain and love of music kept me going, and a stubbornness to solve riddles.
A single ended, class A with minimal feedback is what I started with. Now, I have a high NFB, class AB that sounds even more realistic and engaging. But it doesn’t look conventional: it’s schematic would attract disbelief (probably scorn!) prior to audition. I have a better design, with an altogether different topology, but I need help to realize it.
The Naim design is not perfect but it’s good and is practical to manufacture. We can do better with a more wholistic approach. When examined through a lens of conventional theory, the Naim looks clunky and unsophisticated. Even a little eccentric, e.g. the collector resistor in the LTP. And yet it is unusually, musically engaging. Viewed through a better theory, JV’s unwonted circuit choices make complete sense. He didn’t go far enough and now the 5i looks like a big step backwards.
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